Thornton's Restaurant Dublin

[HannaBanana]

Nice post HannaBanana.  The pigeon sounds great, a dish I would love to try.  Did your long chat with the waiter reveal any indication of future direction for the restaurant?

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Actually, yes. the restaurant is undergoing some serious remodelling as we speak. Apparantly the rear of the room is to be made into a champagne Bar (!) and the ceiling of the front part of the room will be changed substantially, possibly to include a domes glass roof!

[Corinna Dunne]

Nice post HannaBanana.  The pigeon sounds great, a dish I would love to try.  Did your long chat with the waiter reveal any indication of future direction for the restaurant?

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Actually, yes. the restaurant is undergoing some serious remodelling as we speak. Apparantly the rear of the room is to be made into a champagne Bar (!) and the ceiling of the front part of the room will be changed substantially, possibly to include a domes glass roof!

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That makes sense; the ignored bar at the back was a bit sad. I hope he'll have shampoo at a decent price. Some of the places around town make a point of starting with some of the bigger names so it ends up being very expensive to spring for a bottle. In terms of food and price point, did he mention anything?

[HannaBanana]

Food and Price Point? Sure, you know money's no object!

Nah, never got round to asking - It was more of a discussion about restaurants in Dublin in general.

[Corinna Dunne]

The Thornton's publicity machine is in action. There was a piece in the Evening Herald about 10 days ago talking about the re-vamp, by David Piscuskas of New York based design firm 1100 Architect (celebrity clients include Jasper Johns, Christy Turlington and Liam Neeson), and more detail in the Irish Times on Saturday. They found that "there wasn't any 'there' there", so we'll be hoping for plenty of 'there' there when it opens on Friday.

The main room will continue to be a formal dining room with tasting menu, ALC and a new addition of a low-calorie lunch time selection (so I expect he'll be hoping to regain his second star). The oppressive ceiling has been raised, the windows opened up to reveal the view of St Stephen's Green and a "rich chocolate colour" carpet has replaced the awful ochre-red one. The canape bar to the left will be "like a garden" with silk and wire leaves behind a light-difusing material canopy. Canapes, we are told will start from as little as €3, which is great news (interesting that he's avoiding using the tapas word). So possibly more of a Conrad Gallagher trendy mood about the place... which is obviously the definition of "there". Sounds very interesting.

[Simon_S]

This is very interesting. I'm there on Saturday for the chef's taster menu so I'll report my findings!

Si

[Corinna Dunne]

I just walked past Thornton's after lunch and had a glance at the menu. The lunch menu is now €55 for 3 courses and coffee, with no 2 course option, so starting to look a bit expensive, since there used to be a €30 and €40 option (Mint is much better value, and very representative of the ALC).

The surprise menu is still €125, and the chef's 13 course tasting menu is €175 (this was the cost of the white truffle menu before Christmas, I'm not sure if there was always a menu at this price point). So basically, there's not much change in the menu at the restaurant with prices definitely at the 2 star level.

Really looking forward to hearing how you get on Simon and Hazel, but particularly interested in getting the scoop on the new bar and hearing what you can get on a plate for €3 in Thornton's!

[Catriona]

I'm sure I saw an article on this last weekend somewhere... maybe it was in the Sunday Business Post (online)?

Ah yes.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.as...0901-qqqx=1.asp

[Corinna Dunne]

Thanks for this Caitriona, I missed picking up a copy of the SBP on Sun. I see he mentions that there are €30 and €40 lunch menus (which are on the website). Maybe these are in addition to the €55 one he had posted outside... but still, that would mean that coffee and petits fours are €15, which sounds a lot. I think he would be wise to keep the lunch menu at the great value level.

Dying to hear how the Gastronomes get on this week and really hope for Thornton's that this is a success.

[HannaBanana]

Thanks for this Caitriona, I missed picking up a copy of the SBP on Sun.  I see he mentions that there are €30 and €40 lunch menus (which are on the website).  Maybe these are in addition to the €55 one he had posted outside... but still, that would mean that coffee and petits fours are €15, which sounds a lot.  I think he would be wise to keep the lunch menu at the great value level.

Dying to hear how the Gastronomes get on this week and really hope for Thornton's that this is a success.

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Omigod! I'm starting to get embarassed....

[Corinna Dunne]

About your Philip Treacy creation... or is that a bag over your head?

[HannaBanana]

About your Philip Treacy creation... or is that a bag over your head?    

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That's me on St. Patricks day in Chicago in 2006. The delectable leprechaun hat belongs to Simon who clearly has a much bigger head than me.....physically AND metaphorically!

[Simon_S]

Hazel and I ate at the "new look" Thornton's on Saturday night, hot on the heels of our successful lunch there just before Christmas, and I'm glad to be able to report that this trip was even more successful.

In fact, signs were already good when I rang to confirm last Thursday. Having booked this dinner at the end of our last meal, I was impressed when the restaurant manager remembered me on the phone, and when I asked if the 13 course taster would be available, he said "Ah yes, you had the Surprise Menu last time". I'm a sucker for the personal touch, so I liked this! He assured me that the menu would be available, but "with a few changes to before"...

On arrival we were warmly greeted, and at our request, shown the new canape area before going to our table. It's quite nicely done with an attractive bar and lots of small tables fairly closely spaced. Lighting is low and the feeling is intimate, but the big round "window" into the kitchen is still there so I imagine there are some entertaining sights to be seen during service. It has to be said, without people in it it was a little hard to tell what the vibe will be like, but it looked promising to me. I perused the canape menu, and sure enough, they're all €3.50 and the descriptions looked tasty. The barman explained that they're quite small, but I didn't get to see any in the flesh. In any case, I'll be back to sample in due course.

So from there we went to the main dining room which is much more to my taste now. It feels elegant, with good lighting and artwork, and the old "barrier" has been removed to open up the room. The impression I had was of more intimacy, and there's something about the acoustics that really seemed to promote a nice buzz. There's none of that hushed cathedral-esque feel that sometimes afflicts restaurants such as this. So, to my eyes the refurb is a success. Hazel was less sure about the curtains, but I didn't have any problems with them. I am, however, a bloke.

Right then, on to the food. The layout of the menu has changed significantly. There is no a la carte as such any more. Instead, there's a set menu with fairly limited choices that I totally ignored (I *think* I'm right in saying you can choose to eat 2 or 3 courses, but don't quote me on that), and then there are 13 courses listed in the taster menu section. But here's the kicker: you can choose 5 of them, 8 of them, or 14 of them (one of which is a surprise) for various price levels. My memory is dodgy again here, but I think it was €85, €125 and €180 respectively. Being pigs, we opted for 14 courses. We certainly didn't leave hungry!!

I forgot to ask for a copy of everything that we ate before I left (not least because it was so late) but I remember Seabass, scallops with black truffles, goose foie gras, bacon and cabbage terrine, dublin bay prawns (with truffle sabayon?) nettle sorbet with Bombay Sapphire gin, Moularde duck, Woodcock, cashel blue cheese, warm valrhona chocolate, lemon tart, hazelnut with coffee. That's only 12, so I haven't remembered everything, but you get the idea. It was an extensive range of food and flavours.

Details aside, and I'm amazed to hear myself say this, but there wasn't a weak course all night. Everything was beautifully cooked, expertly seasoned, attractively plated, and I honestly enjoyed every last morsel. Hazel was not so enamoured with the bacon and cabbage terrine, feeling the bacon part was fairly pedestrian, and was slightly underwhelmed with the prawns. Maybe I was just in an exceptionally good mood, but I didn't have any such complaints. Compared to previous visits, where things were either over fussy or somewhat dull, I thought all the stops were pulled out on Saturday and the sense of progression over the 14 courses was wonderful. A dessert lover might have expected a little more, I don't know, but to be honest I'm not the man to discuss that as I always focus more on the savouries. Nonetheless, I enjoyed what I had.

One other area that had bothered me on earlier visits was the service, which at times had seemed lax and below the level I'd expect at a restaurant of this calibre. Last night everything ran extremely smoothly, everyone knew what they were doing, and the room felt calm with Garret (the restaurant manager) always in control. That this was achieved with real warmth and friendliness is an added bonus.

So, lest this sound like a rave review I'm trying to think of something to complain about, but I'm coming up short. Thornton's is firing on all cylinders at the moment, and I have no reason to doubt that it will continue to do so.

Si

[Catriona]

Sounds fabulous! I'm thoroughly jealous.

Must plan a canape fest next time I'm in town. Oooh, that's a possibility over easter weekend...

[HannaBanana]

And now, to add my two cent:

.... I was impressed when the restaurant manager remembered me on the phone, and when I asked if the 13 course taster would be available, he said "Ah yes, you had the Surprise Menu last time". I'm a sucker for the personal touch, so I liked this! Si

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He also remember what type of water we liked! Stylish.

So from there we went to the main dining room which is much more to my taste now. It feels elegant, with good lighting and artwork, and the old "barrier" has been removed to open up the room. ...Hazel was less sure about the curtains, but I didn't have any problems with them. I am, however, a bloke.

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Apparantly, they are still working on the lighting. The theme of the colour scheme seems to be coffee/chocolate and caramel. The curtains are a bit....neon - might just be the light.

One word for the artwork - it's fab....Really well chosen.

Right then, on to the food.

... Hazel was not so enamoured with the bacon and cabbage terrine, feeling the bacon part was fairly pedestrian, and was slightly underwhelmed with the prawns. Maybe I was just in an exceptionally good mood, but I didn't have any such complaints.

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I was more than slightly underwhelmed. The prawns I could have eaten without thinking/noticing at all. There was nothing remarkable about them. In fact, there was nothing noteworthy about them at all, IMHO.

The cabbage in the terrible was some of the cabbagey-est ever and was excellent. The bacon was a bit....humdrum. I didn't think it balanced with the rest of the terrine. More bacon, methinks! (Or maybe I'm just a rabid carnivore)

...Last night everything ran extremely smoothly, everyone knew what they were doing, and the room felt calm with Garret (the restaurant manager) always in control. That this was achieved with real warmth and friendliness is an added bonus....

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Absolutely. I'm a service freak - I'm hyper sensitive about it and poor/mediocre service is nearly reason enough for me to boycott a place. Service in Thorntons was great - seamless, friendly, well informed and enthusiastic.

All in all, a great experience, and the best meal I've had in Thorntons ever. I must mention again the Sorbet. It was nettle and thyme sorbet with Bombay Sappire Gin. It took two months to decide on the best liquid to complement the nettle and thyme - all forms of alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages were tried. The chosen combination is......perfection itself.

Edited February 19, 2007 by HannaBanana (log)

[Corinna Dunne]

Another great Gastronome report. Thanks so much for being so speedy with it.

But... ehem... you still haven't mentioned what you can get for €3.50 in the canopy bar. I would expect the portions to be small but am now even more intrigued that this appears to be the cost of all the plates and not just a token cheapie. Did you notice if the bar filled up over the course of the evening? This is potentially a nice little earner if it catches on. I'm dying to give it a go.

Also, do you think that your meal was worth €180, which is a fair wad of cash? And do you think he's being a bit bullish charging 2* prices when he's technically (although maybe not deservedly) a 1* restaurant?

And (nearing the end of my questions)... was the dining room full and did Kevin Thornton do the rounds of the tables at the end of the evening?

Nice touches on the service and the attention to detail. They're obviously pulling out all the stops.

And the big question, how does it compare to your recent meal in Mint?

[HannaBanana]

But... ehem... you still haven't mentioned what you can get for €3.50 in the canopy bar.  I would expect the portions to be small but am now even more intrigued that this appears to be the cost of all the plates and not just a token cheapie.  Did you notice if the bar filled up over the course of the evening?  This is potentially a nice little earner if it catches on.  I'm dying to give it a go.

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We don’t know exactly what you get – we never saw any of the offerings. The bar area had two people in it when we arrived, and no one in it as we left. I don’t think people know about it yet. The bar didn’t appear to fill up at all over the course of the evening…perhaps we can help him out with that!!!

Also, do you think that your meal was worth €180, which is a fair wad of cash?  And do you think he's being a bit bullish charging 2* prices when he's technically (although maybe not deservedly) a 1* restaurant?

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No, but only just not worth it. Yes, I felt it was a little expensive, and he is charging 2* prices.

And (nearing the end of my questions)... was the dining room full and did Kevin Thornton do the rounds of the tables at the end of the evening?

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The dining room was full. However, it’s my fifth (?) time and he has never come around any evening I’ve been there. Now, Garrett has always been more than happy to talk to us for prolonged periods of time, but I would really like it if Kevin Thornton came over for a quick “Hi Howareya.”

And the big question, how does it compare to your recent meal in Mint?

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I preferred Mint, tbh. The cooking is, I feel, more adventurous/exciting and has a certain generosity of spirit, if that makes sense. The quality of ingredients in both places on a par – that is, fabulous. Quality of service in both also excellent. Thornton’s has the better, more comfortable, “don’t have to shift the table to go to the bathroom” room, and is probably a better overall “experience”.

But I'd take Mint. (If you're offering! )

[Simon_S]

But... ehem... you still haven't mentioned what you can get for €3.50 in the canopy bar.  I would expect the portions to be small but am now even more intrigued that this appears to be the cost of all the plates and not just a token cheapie.  Did you notice if the bar filled up over the course of the evening?  This is potentially a nice little earner if it catches on.  I'm dying to give it a go.

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I hope I'm right when I say that everything was €3.50. I had only the quickest look at the menu which was a long list, and I'm confident that it said €3.50 at the top of the page and then no prices after each listing. As regards the type of food on offer, Guinea fowl caught my eye at one point. Early days I guess, I'll be really interested to see what sort of clientele they eventually attract. Will your average "man-on-the-street" pop in for a nibble and a drink? Will it be mainly people who eat at Thornton's occasionally and just want some of that ambiance prior to an evening out? Will people actually go and make a night of it there if they're not eating at the restaurant? Questions questions!

Also, do you think that your meal was worth €180, which is a fair wad of cash?  And do you think he's being a bit bullish charging 2* prices when he's technically (although maybe not deservedly) a 1* restaurant?

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A tricky one, this. I don't think he deserves to be a 1*, and I think that if he still had the 2, nobody would *really* raise an eyebrow if the most expensive menu was €180. In a sense, doing all 14 courses might be considered an unnecessary extravagance, and I would imagine the normal food order is a lot less. For example, 8 of those courses for €125 seems like "good" value. So yes, it's undoubtedly expensive, but assuming it doesn't creep up (for example if the second star is taken out of cold storage) then I think it's just about okay. Well, just about okay for the general level of expense in Dublin as it currently stands...! Certainly the range of ingredients and depth of cooking eased the pain a little.

And (nearing the end of my questions)... was the dining room full and did Kevin Thornton do the rounds of the tables at the end of the evening?

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Hazel's answered this one already, but one thing that was interesting was the table next to us (regulars, according to Garret) were celebrating a 40th birthday and drinking some very serious wine (a 1967 something or other was opened with a degree of ceremony at one point). I was surprised that Kevin didn't come out to say hello to that table at the end of the meal. It could very well be that he's leaving FOH to look after FOH. That may be a conscious decision, who knows.

And the big question, how does it compare to your recent meal in Mint?

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Hazel put it well. My sense during the meal was that Thornton's was back at the top level of cooking, but it's a very different experience to Mint. Thornton's, while not exactly classical, is a bit more mainstream, and given my current tastes, I like the added frisson of excitement at Mint. I can assure you, many would disagree entirely and I wouldn't be able to argue in any absolute sense. Is Thornton's a better restaurant? Probably. Which do I prefer? Probably Mint.

Si

[Corinna Dunne]

The dining room was full.  However, it’s my fifth (?) time and he has never come around any evening I’ve been there.  Now, Garrett has always been more than happy to talk to us for prolonged periods of time, but I would really like it if Kevin Thornton came over for a quick “Hi Howareya.” 

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Hmmm.... I think he should be working the room. Certainly the last time we were there it seemed to go down very well, and he seems to be a decent guy, despite his propensity to veer into ascerbic mode the minute the media is around... famously on TV on No Experience Required and more recently with his sniping at Richard Corrigan in the Sunday Indo article.

[HannaBanana]

Hmmm.... I think he should be working the room.  Certainly the last time we were there it seemed to go down very well, and he seems to be a decent guy, despite his propensity to veer into ascerbic mode the minute the media is around... famously on TV on No Experience Required and more recently with his sniping at Richard Corrigan in the Sunday Indo article.

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I totally agree!

[Brian B]

What are the portion sizes like and are the 14 courses well balanced and how did the wine matching go throughout the meal.

I am trying to get my head around the pricing as I recently ate at Oud Sluis in Holland and the tasting menu is €140 with wine €190 and this is a 3* restaurant.With small tastings in between and substantial main dishes it amounted to 13 plates in total and was an excellently balanced meal.

Had intended to get to De Carmelite in Brugge again 3* who do a simple 3 course lunch for between €50-60 but time was not on our side,but what I am getting at is for a meal in a one star in Dublin you could eat in two of the best restaurants in Benelux.

[HannaBanana]

What are the portion sizes like

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They're about what you'd expect in a 14 course taster Menu. Some are larger than others - the meat courses were fairly substantial, as was one of the desserts. Some are much smaller, eg, one king scallop, with a huge amount of truffle shavings. There are certainly no complaints to be made about portion sizes.

and are the 14 courses well balanced throughout the meal.

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They are. Very well balanced indeed.

and how did the wine matching go .

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Very well. The sommellier is excellent.

I am trying to get my head around the pricing as I recently ate at Oud Sluis in Holland and the tasting menu is €140 with wine €190 and this is a 3* restaurant.With small tastings in between and substantial main dishes it amounted to 13 plates in total and was an excellently balanced meal.

    Had intended to get to De Carmelite in Brugge again 3* who do a simple 3 course lunch for between €50-60 but time was not on our side,but what I am getting at is for a meal in a one star in Dublin you could eat in two of the best restaurants in Benelux..

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TBH, and if you see above, the restaurant used to have 2* and is now 1*. I'd expect the second star to be reclaimed next year. Prices and cooking are probably at 2* level. Problem is, (and I don't know where you're from), prices in Dublin are outrageous generally. It one of the most expensive places in not just Europe, but the world, to live at the moment - eg, a steak sandwich in the city centre in a mediocre restaurant/bar could easily cost €20 - €25....So.....

[Simon_S]

First things first -- Dublin is an expensive place. Comparing similar restaurants across the continent doesn't really make sense, in my opinion. Property, etc. costs more here, that's just the way it is. So, yes, I could eat a less expensive meal in other places, but the comparison isn't easy to make. Also, as I pointed out, this is *the* most expensive way to eat at this restaurant. Lunch is available for €50-€60 for 3 courses, and the 8-course taster can be had for €125, or a 5-course taster for €85.

For my money, the courses were very well balanced in terms of size, and a good progression in terms of flavour. I left full and sated, but not painfully so.

There is no wine pairing available. After consultation the sommelier chose a St. Aubin and a Rhone, neither of which I noted, both of which were very good selections to pair with the menu.

Si

ETA: I see Hazel got there before me!

Edited February 21, 2007 by Simon_S (log)

[Brian B]

Moved to Amsterdam from Dublin 8 months ago and while I have not forgotten how expensive it can be,being on the continent just puts it into such a sharp focus.

Credit to Thornton for getting up off the floor and coming back fighting,he is the best chef in Dublin and to continue cooking as he always has is what I would expect from him. Certainly the restaurant is above Chapter One and L'Ecrivain and must get there when back in Dublin.(better start saving)

[HannaBanana]

Moved to Amsterdam from Dublin 8 months ago and while I have not forgotten how expensive it can be,being on the continent just puts it into such a sharp focus.

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It certainly does....Spain, France, Italy, etc...

Credit to Thornton for getting up off the floor and coming back fighting,he is the best chef in Dublin and to continue cooking as he always has is what I would expect from him.

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I wouldn't necessarily agree with you, I there there is/are better chefs in Dublin at the moment....

Certainly the restaurant is above Chapter One and L'Ecrivain and must get there when back in Dublin.(better start saving)

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Now, I certainly agree with this! There are one or two other "must visits" I'd recommend. Mint is a must, and I'd put it over either of these two.

That's my two cent, anyway!

[Simon_S]

Moved to Amsterdam from Dublin 8 months ago and while I have not forgotten how expensive it can be,being on the continent just puts it into such a sharp focus.

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Absolutely, and trust me, it hasn't improved much since you left! Sorry for teaching grandma to suck eggs, I didn't realise you were a fellow former D8er. You know, I was thinking the other day that when I was doing college exams and first discovered Thornton's while on one of my head-clearing walks (in Portobello at the time), I was shocked, and I mean SHOCKED, when I saw the surprise menu was 45 Irish pounds. I couldn't believe that anyone would pay that for a meal. That wasn't even all that long ago...

Si