Thornton's Restaurant Dublin

[HannaBanana]

I think chicken nuggets, ketchup and spicy potato wedges might be a worthwhile order...

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You'll be eating on your own buddy.

[Corinna Dunne]

KT came on the air the following day (Wed, about 28 mins into the programme if you fancy a listen) and basically said the whole thing wasn't about chips, it was about bad behaviour of guests. He was unwilling to get into the nitty gritty of what happened, but as I say, he came across well.

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The diners came across as very reasonable on the radio but there's always two sides to a story. Naturally, we got the edited highlights from their perspective. I don't think they should have been ordering off menu, but I think that Thornton could have saved himself a load of grief by getting the waiter to explain that the chips would be late if he had to do them and suggesting that they give them a miss.

This publicity can't be doing him any good.

[Bails]

I didn't hear the interview either but for the diners it sounded like it was a power thing rather than a food thing. I really think the need for chips was no more part of their agenda.

[Simon_S]

I'm a little behind on my eG posts, but we did indeed go to Thornton's for canapes last week. The bar area has been made more comfortable with 1950s vintage sofas and tables replacing the smaller tables and chairs. The lighting isn't quite there yet, apparently, but the changes that have been made are good improvements IMHO.

The canape menu itself has about 12-14 choices, all at €3.50. A brief read down through them immediately gives the impression that they're not making any money at that price, as ingredients are not compromised. From the list, we chose 8, as follows:

- Guinea fowl with Szechuan peppercorn

- Blue fin tuna

- Foie gras with almonds

- John Dory with truffle foam and black truffle

- Venison with Valrhona chocolate

- Scallop with something

- Goat's cheese with something else

- Goose with a further something

(Sorry about the vagueness of some of these descriptions, my memory did its best!)

Also on the menu was a bacon and cabbage terrine, and some more vegetarian-style canapes that we didn't sample.

All in all, there were some very impressive flavours here, and at €3.50 they're an absolute steal. Highlights for us were the goose and the John Dory (so we ordered one more of each), but really, all of them were very enjoyable in their own way. When coupled with the fact that you get the full bread service while eating, we had virtually enough to eat with 10 canapes between 2 of us. Of course, we then went and blew the budget somewhat by ordering a semi-decent bottle of wine, not to mention 2 cheese trolley courses and some port.

It should be noted that the service doesn't suffer in any way by only ordering canapes, and we were treated exceptionally well. Granted, it was a quiet enough night in the restaurant, but even still, I was surprised to get proper silverware, napkins etc., and wine poured for us for the night. Nonetheless, the mood at Thornton's is definitely moving away from stiff and formal, and I felt comfortable eating my canapes while clad in jeans.

(Yet another pro-Thornton's post from me. It's becoming a habit!)

Si

PS I checked the menus and lunch is €35 for 2 courses, €45 Euro for 3, so not as expensive as we thought, but more expensive than posted on the restaurant website.

[RDB]

Just recently read what Thornton said about Richard Corrigan, and I can't believe in this day and age such naive, dogmatic and archaic comments can be voiced. In my opinion I think KT is trying to be oh so controversial, and in reality is desperately craving some attention. His reasons? Pretty obvious. Stick to cooking Kevin, the 'image' you are trying to portray is doing you no favours whatsoever

[Corinna Dunne]

The canape menu itself has about 12-14 choices, all at €3.50. A brief read down through them immediately gives the impression that they're not making any money at that price, as ingredients are not compromised. From the list, we chose 8, as follows:

- Guinea fowl with Szechuan peppercorn

- Blue fin tuna

- Foie gras with almonds

- John Dory with truffle foam and black truffle

- Venison with Valrhona chocolate

- Scallop with something

- Goat's cheese with something else

- Goose with a further something

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This sounds like great value for €3.50 a plate. Even though there are some tapas type places around town, this is a unique concept in Dublin. The word on the canapes end of Thornton's hasn't really filtered out it seems. Unfortunately, with all the recent furore, I think Thornton's is perceived as more elitist than ever, which is a pity.

Simon, in terms of service, was there a separate team for the canape bar and how separate does the place feel from the formal restaurant? I was thinking of going in this evening, but am feeling a bit too lazy/not quite in the mood, so will probably do pints and L'Gueuleton inistead!

Good to hear that the lunch is still reasonable. Maybe the €50 lunch menu I spotted a few weeks ago was a one off thing or some sort of separate option. Did you make any wise cracks about chips?

RDB, yes it does seem like Thornton is trying to get publicity by adopting a bad boy image, but I actually don't think it's the case. It's just the way he is. He is very intense, very passionate and reacts intuitively without thinking. He just speaks straight out, and is very frank and honest about his opinions. He's a PR person's nightmare because he's riddled with integrity. I like this raw quality, but I don't always agree with what he says or does.

[Simon_S]

Simon, in terms of service, was there a separate team for the canape bar and how separate does the place feel from the formal restaurant?

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There wasn't a separate team per se, but one of the waiters definitely seemed to have the job of tending to the canape bar, both in terms of drinks and food. He was behind the bar or looking after us for most/all of the night. Aside from that, we had a couple of other waiters along the way to deliver food/bread/cheese/whatever, but they were mostly in the main dining room during the evening.

It certainly feels quite separate from the restaurant, at least in the formality levels, but at the same time you don't really forget where you are. I'd feel perfectly comfortable popping in for a glass of something and a quick snack even if I wasn't dressed for going out, etc., but it won't be replacing my late-night post-pub Roma II batter sausage any time soon.

Did you make any wise cracks about chips?

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We made some "funny" comments about chips, chicken nuggets, ketchup and what-have-you, and they were all taken in good part!

Si

[HannaBanana]

We made some "funny" comments about chips, chicken nuggets, ketchup and what-have-you, and they were all taken in good part!

Si

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*cough*

[Corinna Dunne]

I forgot to ask... is it all stools at a bar and what way does it work from a booking perspective?

Did they mention that they've had a lot of cheap chips jokes (note, took direction from Hannabanna on your misuse of the word "funny")?

[HannaBanana]

I forgot to ask... is it all stools at a bar and what way does it work from a booking perspective?

Did they mention that they've had a lot of cheap chips jokes (note, took direction from Hannabanna on your misuse of the word "funny")?

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Actually, they mentioned someone had rang them and sang "Chips, glorious chips" down the phone to them - you know, from the McCain ad?

[Corinna Dunne]

Any mention of Corrigan... another person with that raw shoot from the hip quality that makes life so much more interesting?

[Simon_S]

Any mention of Corrigan... another person with that raw shoot from the hip quality that makes life so much more interesting?

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Not the proverbial sausage. We didn't want to be too controversial, after all.

In other news, a (vegetarian) colleague was there on Saturday night. He reports a few service lapses and a long wait for dessert, but on balance he enjoyed it I think. Most interestingly, on arrival he asked if they could have a drink at the bar prior to taking their table, but was informed that the bar was full. Word may be getting out.

Si

[Corinna Dunne]

Do you know anything about the booking policy for the canape bar? Did you just walk in?

[Simon_S]

Do you know anything about the booking policy for the canape bar?  Did you just walk in?

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I asked them that on our earlier visit, and they said that as it stands it's fine to just walk in, but they don't know how that will change over time based on popularity, etc. Certainly for now, a walk-in should be fine, and that's exactly what we did. I imagine if it starts filling up on a regular basis they'll take bookings as well.

I also meant to say, in time they're hoping to have canapes available at lunch, which strikes me as an excellent idea for those time-constrained office workers -- people like myself in fact...!

Si

[Bails]

Is may just be my technical ignorance, but does Thornton's have a website? I Know there is a link through the main hotel website but this gives little information. I think a website can help with the whole 'discomfort' people feel at certain restaurants, answering questions like booking policy, dress code, price etc. The canape idea should really kick off in time. I haven't had a chance to go yet but the lunch idea, particularly at the weekends would be super.

[Bails]

Now hold on a wee second-this hasn't always been there.....has it?

http://www.thorntonsrestaurant.com/

[Corinna Dunne]

It looks like they are just putting it up now... no euro signs in yet and a few straggly question marks. Good to see that the lunch is at the old price, €30 for two courses and €40 for three. The lunch menu looks good too.

[Bails]

Definately Corinna..I was planning to do the canape bar as an individual outing but I think i'll combine it with lunch..pretend I'm doing a tasting Menu

[Simon_S]

That website has been there for a while (I mentioned it upthread), and certainly existed pre the refurb, so some of the details have yet to be updated. The 30/40 lunch price on the site does not tally with the prices advertised at the restaurant.

Si

[Corinna Dunne]

Definately Corinna..I was planning to do the canape bar as an individual outing but I think i'll combine it with lunch..pretend I'm doing a tasting Menu

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Bails, from what I understand, the canapes are only available in the evening at the moment. Also, as far as I know, the fixed price lunch is only available Mon - Fri, so not a weekend thing.

[Simon_S]

Hmmm, according to the website, it's open for lunch on Thurs, Fri, Sat only. I'm not sure if that's right? Plus, I think the prix fixe lunch is available on Sat. It certainly was in December, and I don't think they've changed it. It's a nice way to spend a Saturday, although shopping afterwards is not recommended!

Si

[Corinna Dunne]

Thanks Simon... I'm sure you're right. Apologies for all the misinformation!!! I didn't realise that the lunch ran on Sat, that's brilliant. I don't think Guilbaud's or Mint's do.

[Simon_S]

I hope I'm not the one spreading misinformation! What we need is Kevin Thornton on here to answer all our questions!!

Si

[Corinna Dunne]

Kevin Thornton has been keeping himself busy. He’s writing a monthly column in The Gloss magazine and recently had a launch to get even more publicity for his refurbished restaurant.

The Irish Times property section did a feature focusing on 1100 Architect, the NY architects who worked on the €300,000 project:

Realising a need for a “promenade and sequence of events to disassemble the space” the restaurant now has a distinct reception area, a diningroom overlooking the Green and a place by the bar in which to chill on sofas after a meal or to come in for early evening canapés (at €3.50 a piece) and a drink, to encourage non-diners into the restaurant.

So the canapé bar is what is on the publicity radar at the moment. It sounds like a great idea, a place where anyone can drop in for a casual few bites of Thornton’s food without a booking… but after a visit there about 6 weeks ago, I’m not convinced that it’s going to be a runner. The canapé end of things is somehow misconceived IMO.

It looks trendy, with cool stools against the bar, but the reality is that these stools are directly in the flight path of the waiters bustling up and down from the pass. So, to start, the area is immediately broken up by a brightly-lit bar, which is more of a viewpoint than a communal area on one side, and a comfy lounge area on the other. Nobody was sitting at the bar the evening I was there, and the three groups of people that were there (apart from us), were all having pre-dinner drinks, and heading into the restaurant. So no poorhouse gawkers.

We were made to feel very welcome when we arrived, loads of pleasantries, delighted to see you coming for the canapé bar and so on. Two of the sofa clusters were occupied, and the third suffered from bad lighting (a lamp would have worked, this may have been rectified since), so we sat at one of the tables for two, with the pass in our sightline.

As Simon mentioned above, the canapés for €3.50 a plate are very good indeed. We had guinea fowl with Szechwan peppercorn, scallop (a half or a third) with a heavenly carrot sauce, bacon and cabbage terrine, blue fin tuna, and foie gras with crushed almonds. But they are all, in every sense of the word, canapés; so tiny bites of Thornton’s and absolutely no substitute for dinner, or even tapas. In short, exactly the amount of food you’d expect to get in Thornton’s for the money. By the time I’d be full, I might as well have sprung for dinner.

Despite the good intentions of Thornton and his crew, it does not feel casual, informal or in any way like a bar. The atmosphere is a step above a dentist’s waiting room. Zilcho buzz. I just don’t get it and I would be interested to know if it increases customer spend or in fact cannibalises the a la carte, with diners opting to skip starters after having a few canapés. Certainly, it must be a pain in terms of service, adding an additional fiddly element for the kitchen (especially since some of the plates are hot) and disrupting the flow of service to the main restaurant.

This little area didn’t work comfortably as part of the restaurant, and I think Thornton is right not to try to force it to be what it isn’t (although he does sacrifice about 10 covers). But it’s no lively canapé bar or recruitment mechanism either and I don’t see it ever getting there. However, the foie gras is benchmark and at €3.50 a bite, that’s not a bad deal.

One more thing… the piece also mentions that Thornton hopes to open restaurants in other parts of the world (no indications of where) and wanted a design ”that would create a strong identity.” Hmmm…

[Bails]

I was in for Lunch a few weekends ago and had the 8 course surprise menu...and the canape bar does not seem to be the only section lacking in atmosphere (and customers). We were there on a Saturday afternoon for a few hours and the restaurant was never more than half full, making it a bit dull in all honesty. If you were that way inclined, you had access to any conversation from one end of the restaurant to the next. Out of sheer boredom the waiting staff must have had a wager on to see who could get to our table first because there was definately no room to 'deliberate, cogitate and digest'. At one point my wife was still chewing and was considering a bit of sauce mopping when her plate was promptly whipped away. We had to ask at one point to have a break as the dishes were coming out a bit too fast and furious. It was a bit of a shame because I think the refit looks really well.

KT was there himself doing 'the rounds' and it was nice to know that the food was actually being cooked by the name above the door. We got into a bit of a chat about how the canape bar was going and he was very anxious to point out what a success it was. (Maybe Saturday is not a good canape day in Dublin??) I made the mistake of mentioning that I was recently at L'Atelier Joel Robuchon in London and saw some comparison, before I was told that it was 'nothing like it' and that 'his is two bites and mine is one'.!!! This sort of ended the conversation as it was too nice a day to get into the fact the the sea urchin I had at L'atelier disappeared in ONE eager bite. At this point he let us get back to our Nettle and Bombay Sapphire sorbet...with a little gin poured on at the table which I think was aimed to impress. It didn't.

I found the food very good in places and a bit average in others. The highlights were a mushroom terrine with a vertjus (that I misheard and thought was Fir Jus) and a trio of foie gras. The two fish courses were ok ( an overcooked sea bass with pea puree and a sea bream (?) with a champagne sauce). We also had a sweetbread dish that was very good. Desserts tend to pass me by and there was nothing here to change this but that's not to say the were not good.

All in all I found it good standard, one-star fare. The lack of atmosphere definately contributed to making the experience less enjoyable and maybe if I had the same meal in a better setting it would have had more of a wow factor. I suppose I've had fish and pea puree so many times and I really have no time for sorbets. The only raised eyebrow of excitement was the thought of a Fir Jus with the mushroom terrine. I know I shouldn't, but in terms of taste, creativity, imagination, challenge, service and ambience go to Mint if you have a spare 350 euro.