Rick's Steaks Leaving RTM?

[Holly Moore]

Let me put it more succinctly about that convention goer wanting a 4:30PM cheesesteak or pork sandwich or whatever. I don't give a damn.

Only people that care about a convention goer's late afternoon cheesesteak accessibility are the Convention and Visitors Bureau and the Convention Center. They get to set the rules for the market merchants???

As to #9 in Sandy's questionnaire - I missed it. I didn't skip it. My feeling is that the locals know who will and who will not be open late. If not they will learn after one visit. It doesn't really change from day to day.

[MarketStEl]

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Only people that care about a convention goer's late afternoon cheesesteak accessibility are the Convention and Visitors Bureau and the Convention Center.  They get to set the rules for the market merchants??? 

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Not to put too fine a point on it, but if the latter (the Convention Center Authority) wanted to, it could -- it's the Market's landlord, after all. It could even dissolve the Reading Terminal Market Corporation if it wanted to and run the market directly.

Of course, that would piss absolutely everyone off.

However: When the current ownership/management structure was established, it was envisioned that somewhere down the road, the Reading Terminal Market Corporation would itself pay rent to the Convention Center Authority. Right now, it does not. Now that the Commonwealth, not the city, controls the Convention Center Authority, the state may not be as willing as the city is to carry this asset -- which at least breaks even on operations, I believe -- on the books rent-free. (And before anyone calls this an injustice, let me pull a non-food-related but applicable analogue up: after getting $1 a year from the Delaware River Port Authority for decades, the city finally insisted that the DRPA pay the city something more like a real lease payment for use of the Locust Street Subway back in the mid-1990s, despite the benefit the city receives from PATCO's presence.)

Edited August 14, 2007 by MarketStEl (log)

[Holly Moore]

Sandy, are you certain that the Convention Center Authority can abolish the RTM board at their whim? I seem to remember some assurances back when the deal went down.

I would hope that there is a protective covenant that protects the market from direct management by the Convention Center Authority. Their indirect management is doing enough damage.

[MarketStEl]

I'm not certain, and I hope you're right on this one, Holly. Absent such a covenant or legally enforceable agreement, what I described is perfectly legal.

But I will say that while the longtime merchants such as DiNic's, Spataro's, and above all Bassett's, the RTM's oldest tenant, do have at least a moral claim on proprietorship if not a legal one, I would no more ascribe total virtue to them collectively than I would total vice to current management. Oliveri in particular, from what I've been able to gather from various sources, seems to occupy something of a gray area, looking out for himself as much as--or maybe even a bit more than--his fellow merchants. (I note that throughout all this, nothing has been said about why he is no longer head of the Merchants' Association. The reason could be benign and bureaucratic [e.g., his term expired and he either could not seek another term or chose not to run], or it could not [e.g., he did not enjoy the support of his fellow merchants for another term as head], but this aspect of the whole story has gone completely undiscussed and unreported. Given the high degree of interest in the subject, I would have figured someone would have asked about it by now.)

IOW, as I believe I've mentioned at least once in passing upthread, his fellow tenants may be backing him not because they're fond of him but because they're looking out for themselves. They're justified in doing so. But things may not be as bad as they look. (Yes, I know people aside from you, Holly, whose response to this statement is probably, "You're right -- they're worse.")

[serpentine]

Let me put it more succinctly about that convention goer wanting a 4:30PM cheesesteak or pork sandwich or whatever. I don't give a damn.

Only people that care about a convention goer's late afternoon cheesesteak accessibility are the Convention and Visitors Bureau and the Convention Center. They get to set the rules for the market merchants???

What about the people attending the convention? Y'know, customers?

I'm not suggesting that the Convention Center should officially dictate the operating hours for RTM. I actually think that Market management should be better-selected, with more representation by vendors, so that they can work out compromises that would serve the interests of the market and of the vendors.

I would hope that a majority of food merchants would agree that it is a bit odd to for a food-providing market to be "open" yet have limited food for sale, despite having a huge pool of customers staring at them. If I were brokering a compromise, I'd ask that a certain percentage of food merchants agree to voluntary participation in specifically offering food up to closing, so that a customer would feel that a critical mass of businesses were open without mandating that all businesses change their model.

My feeling is that the locals know who will and who will not be open late. If not they will learn after one visit. It doesn't really change from day to day.

I get that the hours of produce vendors are convenient for you. They're not for me, or anyone else who works the fairly standard hours of 9-5, unless their place of employment is immediately adjacent to the RTM. It's a sore spot for me that I work several blocks from RTM and live several blocks from the 9th St. Market, yet have to rely on Acme, SuperFresh, and Whole Foods for produce because they're the only businesses open when I get out of work. The proliferation of farmer's markets does indeed help, but the markets do not have nearly the variety of produce.

[monavano]

It's a sore spot for me when I arrive at 3pm (not a Sunday) and have slim, slim pickings for a sandwich or such! DiNic's-natch, Delilah's -natch. One time I have to settle for a Carmen's Famous (why?) hoagie. I get better "subs" in VA!!

I'm firmly in the " be open when the market is open" camp. Except for the Dutch.

Edited August 14, 2007 by monavano (log)

[Holly Moore]

Let me put it more succinctly about that convention goer wanting a 4:30PM cheesesteak or pork sandwich or whatever. I don't give a damn.

Only people that care about a convention goer's late afternoon cheesesteak accessibility are the Convention and Visitors Bureau and the Convention Center. They get to set the rules for the market merchants???

What about the people attending the convention? Y'know, customers?

I'm not suggesting that the Convention Center should officially dictate the operating hours for RTM. I actually think that Market management should be better-selected, with more representation by vendors, so that they can work out compromises that would serve the interests of the market and of the vendors.

I would hope that a majority of food merchants would agree that it is a bit odd to for a food-providing market to be "open" yet have limited food for sale, despite having a huge pool of customers staring at them. If I were brokering a compromise, I'd ask that a certain percentage of food merchants agree to voluntary participation in specifically offering food up to closing, so that a customer would feel that a critical mass of businesses were open without mandating that all businesses change their model.

My feeling is that the locals know who will and who will not be open late. If not they will learn after one visit. It doesn't really change from day to day.

I get that the hours of produce vendors are convenient for you. They're not for me, or anyone else who works the fairly standard hours of 9-5, unless their place of employment is immediately adjacent to the RTM. It's a sore spot for me that I work several blocks from RTM and live several blocks from the 9th St. Market, yet have to rely on Acme, SuperFresh, and Whole Foods for produce because they're the only businesses open when I get out of work. The proliferation of farmer's markets does indeed help, but the markets do not have nearly the variety of produce.

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I suspect most people attending a convention will break at conventional times for lunch. I'm at one in KC right now that even closes down the exhibits for lunch. So I really don't think if this is much of an issue. If it is, then it is a question of supply and demand. The market as in economical market as opposed to the board of the RTM will entice food vendors to stay open.

Same for the shoppers. If there is enough interest in produce at 5:30 PM more produce vendors will be open.

Traditionally and hopefully into the future, the Reading Terminal Market has always been an amalgamation of independent businesses who work together for the good of the market and themselves. Among other entitlements, they set their own hours according to what made good business sense to them.

What Dunston and the management are trying to do is turn the market into a shopping mall. The Reading Terminal Market has been doing very well without their meddling.

[Mottmott]

Let me preface my comments by saying, I have no dog in this fight. I only shop for cooking purposes at the RTM. Except for Bassetts, I never eat there as I don't much like what I have had in the past.

What do I find strange about this argument over the market's end of the day hours?

If there is such demand for vendors to be open 5-6pm as some posters suggest, why wouldn't these merchants WANT to be available then? They'd get an hours worth of extra business for basically the same overhead costs. This suggests to me that they don't think there'd be enough business to justify being there at that time. I know that people behave irrationally sometimes, but I can't understand why Rick wouldn't benefit from keeping his stand open til 6 unless there's simply not enough business to justify the extra labor costs and scheduling hassle to him. Throw in the tussle with the management over this issue and there's even more benefit to staying open - again, UNLESS, there's no business there for him at that hour.

Also, it's awhile since I shopped there on a an early day of the week, but my memory suggests that the Lancaster Co farmers are totally closed early in then week and their corner of the market is a desert. Perhaps they're a 6-7 day operation now. Are they in contention with management? If veryone's "supposed" to be open, why do they get a pass? It's okay with me, but from a consistency pov, it's a question that should be asked.

Also, some of us sound as if we or the conventioneers will starve if the sandwich stands, etc., aren't open. Are all the other food shops I see lined up and down Arch and other nearby streets closed at 5 pm?

Edited August 14, 2007 by Mottmott (log)

[rlibkind]

.Also, it's awhile since I shopped there on a an early day of the week, but my memory suggests that the Lancaster Co farmers are totally closed early in then week and their corner of the market is a desert.

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For the 25 years I've been shopping at the RTM, there's only been one "Lancaster Co farmer" at any given time. Right now, and for at least the past 15 years, it's been Benuel Kaufman. Benuel is not located in the Pennsylvania Dutch section, he keeps the same hours: closed Sunday-Tuesday, open Wednesday-Saturday. Only a small portion of what Benuel sells comes from his own garden. And even at the height of the growing season no more than two-thirds of his shelf space (and probably less than that) is devoted to produce; the remainder is some prepared foods, some grains and lots of crafts/trinkets.

The only other Pennsylvania Dutch merchant who might be considered a "farmer," though that's a stretch, would be L. Halteman, which primarily deals in deli meats and fresh meats. They do, however, sell some seasonal produce. Although located about as far away from the Amish section as you can get, near the opposite corner of the market, they keep the same Wednesday-Saturday hours.

None of the other Amish/Pennsylvania Dutch vendors are farmers, i.e., they don't sell produce. They sell meats, deli, baked goods, candy, non-artisinal cheeses, milk and related dairy products, and prepared foods for on or off-premises consumption.

[MarketStEl]

This may sound like a semantic quibble, but I'd like to suggest that running the Market like a shopping mall is not the same thing as turning it into one.

It does constrain the freedom the RTM merchants have historically enjoyed to operate their stalls as they see fit. But the nature of retailing these days is such that it's usually the businessperson who endures inconvenience so the customer doesn't have to.

In the not too distant past, every retail establishment was like Chick-fil-A. In fact, state laws in most states made sure of that. But as those state laws fell by the wayside, businesses (in most cases) quickly added Sunday hours.

I can't say that I noticed too many people coming to the defense of the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board for keeping their stores shuttered on Sundays. The same moral and morale arguments the owner of Chick-fil-A makes in support of his company's policy apply here too.

It's clear from the appearance of the Market on Sundays that not every merchant sees it as in his or her interest to open that day. And in deference to those sensibilities, the merchants are not required to open on Sunday. Yet despite clear evidence that shopping on Sunday is indeed something that a sizable number of customers want -- otherwise, the market would be empty -- Sunday hours remain officially an "experiment." Why is that? What is wrong with making the policy as it stands now permanent?

In other debates, on other subjects, I have decried the creep of marketplace values into places where they're not appropriate and the tendency to view every transaction through the provider-customer lens. But if those values and that outlook shouldn't govern the operations of a market, where should they operate?

The management conducts surveys to gauge customers' sentiments. I don't think that they're taking the approach they take to management either on a whim or out of malice. Like serpentine and monovano, I would like to be able to shop the RTM instead of the supermarket after work -- and I'm sure that keeping the entire market open an extra hour weeknights would go down as well as it seems some of the other changes have with proprietors not named Iovine. But why not try it rather than resist? You can always go back to the way it used to be if the reward proves meager relative to the extra effort.

This may simply be an area where we have to agree to disagree. All I can say is that it is far from clear to me that the merchants more than the management are at present acting in the interests of those who want to make the RTM their first choice whenever they want something to eat.

[Holly Moore]

I've been involved in enough market research studies to know that 1. I can get just about any answer I want and 2. people are sufficiently complex that answers don't indicate action.

"What days should RTM be open?" will produce different answers than "Should RTM be open on Sundays?" Even a answer like "I'd shop at the market on Sundays at least twice a month is not the least bit accurate in predicting whether the person saying that would ever actually go to the market on a Sunday.

Beyond that is there an incremental benefit to opening Sunday or staying open later? New sales or mostly existing sales spread over a greater length of time?

I keep asking, what are the problems now that requires the market to all of a sudden be run like a shopping mall? What is broken? All this strikes me like the recent MBA grad coming in to the family business an attempting to bring it into the 20th or 21st century. More often than not the business suffers, falters, loses moral and the uniqueness that once made it more special.

Dunston and his gang are implementing shopping mall 101.

- Every business opens and closes at the exact same time.

- Sundays - that is 1/7th of the week. If we're not open Sunday we are not maximizing our sales potential.

- Tenants are disposable. If Macy's leaves, insert Gimbel's. Burger King being a tough negotiator, bring in McDonald's. Loyalty and tradition has nothing to do with it. Tenants are the serfs and landlords are the heads of the manor.

- Drive business to the mall by having the most famous tenants. Tony Luke's for example. So what if that means evicting a merchant who has run a good business for twenty five years, one that has been passed along from father to son.

The thing about shopping malls is that just about all the businesses are chains. One chain could be running five businesses within a mall under different names. These are the player's. There is no sweat equity in any one store - or to use their phrase, "location." No big deal if a lease is lost, they'll just open at a new mall across town. They are used to having the mall management dictate hours and days open. That's the way they play the game. Shopping malls don't have history and tradition. They are not "institutions." They are just real estate ventures.

Want to bet that if not this year, then definitely next year, "Chestnuts roasting..." will be playing on the RTM sound system come October? Shoppers will soon be able to buy gym memberships at a kiosk near the main seating area? And be sure not to miss the biggest ever President's Day sale at the Reading Terminal Market.

And, dare Dunston to dream, build a bridge across Filbert Street, and it will be "Reading Terminal Market at the Gallery."

Progress is supposed to make things better, not worse.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[serpentine]

Same for the shoppers. If there is enough interest in produce at 5:30 PM more produce vendors will be open.

We have a chicken-or-egg problem here. Perhaps we should form a Coalition For Shopping At RTM to organize weekly "Shop-Ins" to demonstrate our interest to the few merchants still hanging out at 5:30.

[rlibkind]

Same for the shoppers. If there is enough interest in produce at 5:30 PM more produce vendors will be open.

We have a chicken-or-egg problem here. Perhaps we should form a Coalition For Shopping At RTM to organize weekly "Shop-Ins" to demonstrate our interest to the few merchants still hanging out at 5:30.

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BRAVO! Capital Idea!

[rlibkind]

Progress is supposed to make things better, not worse.

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Let's stick to the facts and what's actually happened, Holly, rather than what you speculate might happen in the future.

What are the specific actions undertaken by current RTM management that have made the RTM shopping experience worse for the consumer?

[Holly Moore]

For one thing actions that lead to the unheard of canceling of the Dutch Festival.

For another, the long term effect of their actions that are killing merchant morale. The market works because of the merchants, not because of the guys in suits. By intimidating merchants and by creating a "who's next" mentality, they are destroying market tradition and spirit.

Beyond that, as much as I try, it is impossible to totally separate my intense distaste for the market's and board's actions in the eviction of a long term merchant, from my feelings for the market as a whole.

All the headlines, the front page of the Daily News, the petition, Dunston's incredibly poor interview in the Daily News - all of these are detracting from the public's perception of the market. Rick Olivieri's image, and I believe it is deserved, is that of the little guy, the underdog, fighting uncaring and aloof management. That is hurting the image of the market, and that hurts the Philadelphia Community.

It is a matter of degree - opening Sunday is good. But if that leads to forcing merchants to be open on Sunday, that is bad. Asking / suggesting is fine. Building a case that the merchants buy into is fine and is the way that those responsible for a public trust and Philadelphia institution should work with merchants.

Forcing, evicting, intimidating, mandating is heavy handed and damaging. Anything that stresses the merchants, takes away the good vibes and the spirit of the market and that both directly and indirectly makes the experience worse for the customer.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[Holly Moore]

Anyone know if anything is happening on the legal or the common sense front?

[rlibkind]

For one thing actions that lead to the unheard of canceling of the Dutch Festival.

For another, the long term effect of their actions that are killing merchant morale.  The market works because of the merchants, not because of the guys in suits. By intimidating merchants and by creating a "who's next" mentality, they are destroying market tradition and spirit.

Beyond that, as much as I try, it is impossible to totally separate my intense distaste for the market's and board's actions in the eviction of a long term merchant, from my feelings for the market as a whole. 

All the headlines, the front page of the Daily News, the petition, Dunston's incredibly poor interview in the Daily News - all of these are detracting from the public's perception of the market.  Rick Olivieri's image, and I believe it is deserved, is that of the little guy, the underdog, fighting uncaring and aloof management.  That is hurting the image of the market, and that hurts the Philadelphia Community.

It is a matter of degree - opening Sunday is good.  But if that leads to forcing merchants to be open on Sunday, that is bad.  Asking / suggesting is fine.  Building a case that the merchants buy into is fine and is the way that those responsible for a public trust and Philadelphia institution should work with merchants.

Forcing, evicting, intimidating, mandating is heavy handed and damaging.  Anything that stresses the merchants, takes away the good vibes and the spirit of the market and that both directly and indirectly makes the experience worse for the customer.

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You get quarter of a point for the Dutch festival, but that's ephemeral. Lack of the festival this year has not made the shopping experience worse for the consumer. (IMHO, the festival makes it more difficult to shop; but that's besides the point.)

All your other responses are BS speculations and "what ifs". None of them address the question asked: What are the specific actions undertaken by current RTM management that have made the RTM shopping experience worse for the consumer?

Merchant morale? The only thing that will seriously harm merchant morale for the long term is declining sales. (I know Tommy Nicolosi is one of Rick's strongest supporters, so if anyone's morale could be down, one would think it would be Tommy's. But his sandwiches are as good as ever -- many would argue better with the recent addition of rabe -- and he's planning a significant capacity expansion this fall and will be staying open later. How's that bad for the consumer?)

Bad publicity? That only seems to matter to some editors and reporters looking for a story in the dog days of summer, you and a handful of folks here and a few other blogs and internet sites. Negative publicity is the only hope Rick has, which is why he hired his own PR heavyweight (Stephan Rosenfeld, ex-Septa, ex-Tenet) to coordinate his media blitz which necessitated RTM's belated response.

Sunday openings? Again, you're dealing in "what ifs". It's voluntary now, and there's nothing in the works to force it. (That doesn't mean I wouldn't require it if I were running the market; but I'm obviously a mean, evil person.)

Anything that stresses the merchants is bad? Hey, I'll spring for Ativan prescriptions for Rick and any other merchant who needs it to cope. Whole Foods and Trader Joe's are what should cause merchants stress.

Everyone's got a right to their opinion here, Holly, and I understand you will continue to advocate your position as you see fit -- like when you decided to use a distasteful, inappropriate and rude metaphor by likening management to gangland killers because they are implementing a decision with which you disagree. If nothing else, that shows how strongly you feel about this situation. Just don't pretend that your opinions are facts.

[Holly Moore]

Unless I received a judicial appointment of which I am unaware, I am not a decider of fact. I can form opinions and arrive at conclusions on the actions of a board of directors responsible for a Public Trust. Hopefully I present my opinions and offer my conclusions powerfully and persuasively.

Bob, you declare these opinions and conclusions to be BS speculations. Is that a statement of fact or an opinion/conclusion? What makes my opinions and conclusions B.S. ? That you disagree with them?

I am sorry you found my metaphor so distasteful. I understand. I felt the same when an Amish merchant's sincerity was impugned earlier in this thread.

Until this issue is resolved, I will continue to bring whatever pressure I can on the RTM board. They have acted unfairly. They have taken away a family's livelihood. The have given no sound explanation for why they initiated the issue, absolutely no defense for their actions other than they can so they did, and it is their inflexibility that keeps it alive and me attacking their actions.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[MarketStEl]

Just so you don't get the idea that the issues underlying this dust-up are unique to Philadelphia, Paul called my attention to this item:

After the centennial's over, what will Pike Place Market's future be?

Those of you who read my Seattle trip report may recall that I thought the Pike Place Market had gone too far down the tourist-magnet path. As Seattle's downtown residential population swells, the question of where to strike the resident/tourist balance is live there -- as it is here, for the same reason.

You could replace the phrase "Pike Place Market" with "Reading Terminal Market" in the story and it would read pretty much the same. These excerpts should give you a feeling of deja vu:

Already, competition from neighborhood farmers markets is siphoning away many of the Market's traditional local shoppers, with tourists largely taking over. But an opportunity exists now to nudge the Market more toward its purist roots as a neighborhood farmers market.

High-rise condominiums are going up around the Market, ushering in an upscale class of potential Market shoppers. Four luxury condo projects within a few blocks are scheduled to open in 2008 and 2009, totaling 548 new homes. Average purchase price: $1.6 million.

Downtown condo dwellers have food-shopping options besides the Market. Specialty grocers such as Whole Foods in the South Lake Union area have opened. At Second Avenue and Pine Street, a yet-unnamed "urban market" is set to open in about 18 months as part of the new "1" Hotel & Residences.

These markets offer downtown condo dwellers something Pike Place Market does not — a place to shop for groceries after 6 p.m.

More pressure undoubtedly will be put on Market vendors and merchants — particularly those selling food — to stay open later to better serve the downtown condo crowd. That would mark a radical reversal in the up-early, home-early traditions of those who make their living at the Market.

And at the Market, change often is met with resistance.

The diverse mix of farmers, retailers, restaurateurs and artisans rarely agree about anything, and their relationship with Market administration has long been adversarial. Drama and anxiety are part of the character of the Market community.

Will residents of pricey condos insist that the Market abandon its gritty ways? Will the Market's administration respond by gentrifying the Market to meet a demand? And will the Market lose its character as a result?

(emphasis added)

History teaches that when the Market has faced a crossroads, it has survived and often thrived. While arms flail and hands wring, the Market has managed to adapt without losing sight of its sense of self.

Tight controls and strict regulations are in place that are specifically designed to preserve the Market's unique character. Its charter prohibits chain stores, encourages unique start-up businesses and guarantees housing for about 500 low-income people.

Those who work at the Market know change is inevitable but say it must be subtle and occur in baby steps. Changes cannot be dictated by Market officials but rather must happen organically, said Cynthia Hope, who 25 years ago opened Hands of the World, a folk-art boutique in the DownUnder.

"I'd like to think small businesses at the Market will change their product mix to a small degree to better serve the locals," she said. "If they are not able to adapt and grow as businesses, then I suppose attrition will take over."

Past efforts to keep the Market open later have failed because too few food vendors have been willing to participate.

"I remember there being a big controversy over whether the Market should open on Sundays," recalled [produce and flower vendor Ben] Craft, of Alm Hill [Gardens in the market]. "Everybody was up in arms but we went ahead and did it, and now Sunday is our busiest day of the week."

Craft supports staying open later but has nagging doubts about whether condo dwellers actually shop at the Market.

Stop me if you've heard all this before.

I can understand the "don't mess with success/if it ain't broke, don't fix it" impulse. Personally, I don't like to go through rapid wrenching changes either; I'll bet that most of you would be surprised to learn that I was dragged kicking and screaming to Philadelphia from Boston 25 years ago. It turned out to be a good move, and things worked out better than I suspect they would have had I stayed in Boston.

The same might well prove to be the case for the Reading Terminal Market a few years down the road from now. It may not look like it now, but it just might be that -- the mishandling of this lease aside -- what's happening is not the demolition of tradition but preventive maintenance.

[Holly Moore]

Has the Pike Place Market board and management ever evicted a long term merchant at the end of his lease who ran a good operation, abided by the terms of his lease, was president of the merchant's association and who played a major role in the market's turn-around?

Edited to ask: Did anyone else, besides Sandy and Bob (posted in a separate thread) receive a reference to this article from RTM manager Paul Steinke? I'll be glad to endorse Paul's membership if he would like to participate directly.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[rlibkind]

Once again, Holly, you haven't put forth a single fact to answer the question asked: What are the specific actions undertaken by current RTM management that have made the RTM shopping experience worse for the consumer?

If you can't do that, or choose not to do that, fine, that's your perogative.

I've never said you shouldn't express opinion, or reach conclusions based on your interpretation of facts. Opinions and conclusions are what make eGullet interesting; but I put greater weight on such opinions and conclusions when they are fact-based.

Bob, you declare these opinions and conclusions to be BS speculations.  Is that a statement of fact or an opinion/conclusion?  What makes my opinions and conclusions B.S. ? That you disagree with them?

Yep. As in:

The RTM management and board's treatment of Rick Olivieri and Rick's Steaks is total bullsh*t

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Edited August 15, 2007 by rlibkind (log)

[Holly Moore]

Actually you gave me partial credit for one answer. Also by removing the Rick's Steaks location from their web site map, Reading Terminal has left shoppers wandering the aisles aimlessly in search of a cheesesteak.

Beyond that I am more concerned with the long term impact of the Board's unjust and adversarial action on a Philadelphia institution, than today's shopping experience. It is the long term damage being done by this fiasco that I fear.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[rlibkind]

. . .It is the long term damage being done by this fiasco that I fear.

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If I thought the Rick's Steak brouhaha would bring significant long-term damage, I'd agree. But I don't: my opinion is that while the lease non-renewal may or may not have been justified, it's not the threat to the market you perceive it to be.

These are the type of things on which reasonable people may disagree, and I hope they do so with facts and logic.

And I would also hope that, where appropriate, we discuss topics with the passion you bring. Passion is great. What I cannot abide and allow to stand unanswered or unremarked upon is the tone and tenor in some of your posts in advancing your case, with inflammatory language that is just plain rude.

[rlibkind]

. . . by removing the Rick's Steaks location from their web site map, Reading Terminal has left shoppers wandering the aisles aimlessly in search of a cheesesteak.

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What's the worst case? They eat one of Tommy's pork sandwiches instead? Horrors!

[Bluehensfan]

. . .It is the long term damage being done by this fiasco that I fear.

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If I thought the Rick's Steak brouhaha would bring significant long-term damage, I'd agree. But I don't: my opinion is that while the lease non-renewal may or may not have been justified, it's not the threat to the market you perceive it to be.

These are the type of things on which reasonable people may disagree, and I hope they do so with facts and logic.

And I would also hope that, where appropriate, we discuss topics with the passion you bring. Passion is great. What I cannot abide and allow to stand unanswered or unremarked upon is the tone and tenor in some of your posts in advancing your case, with inflammatory language that is just plain rude.

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You may want to talk to the merchants at the market and see if they agree with your statement that the Rick's Steak Fiasco won't cause any long term damage. I personally know merchants who have recently signed long term leases at the market who wished they have not done so seeing recent goings on there. They are the ones who are suffering the most.

Long time customers (such as people like Holly and myself) also seriously question what is happening at the market as well. If I was a vendor at a place for 25 years, served a decent product, ran a clean business, and had no shortage of customers, one would think that magagement would not treat me like a US Airways baggage handler at PHL and throw me to the curb. Surely those years of service at (and for) the market must be worth something.