Save The Deli

[savethedeli]

What is the best deli anyone has had outside of New York or LA?

I'm looking for diamonds in the rough, in unexpected places.

[judiu]

What is the best deli anyone has had outside of New York or LA? 

I'm looking for diamonds in the rough, in unexpected places.

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Bagle Snack, on powerline Rd. in Pompano Beach, FL A wonderous dive of a joint that you'll miss if you don't A) look fast and B0 know where it is to begin with!

[Kent D]

Beware of any place that bills itself as "New York Deli".  Though I've had great deli at a few (Deli Tech in Denver being one), most are using the Big Apple moniker to cash into some nostalgic idea of what a deli should be.  Funny thing is, I know of no delis in New York that resemble these places...they are like Disneylands for Woody Allen fans.  A great deli should have pride in its local roots.  Even though the legendary Norm Langer was from Jersey, you won't find a reference to the east coast at his temple in downtown LA...by far the finest pastrami on both coasts.

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We just got a new neighborhood "TJ's New York Deli"...it's not. Lots of brass and mirrors and ceiling fans, where they have an all-you-can-eat salad bar, some guy hidden back in the kitchen making sandwiches ("We proudly serve Hormel meats!"-WHY?), a cabinet of second-hand Krispy Kreme Donuts for sale. Three fresh-faced young ladies at the counter, nervously wiping the counter and tugging at their aprons while they wait for the orders to come out the window.

I ordered a pastrami and swiss to go. Choice of side -- potato chips (bagged) or potato salad (commercial-grade). You can have soup for a couple dollars more.

For $6.00...it's no better than the Arby's Market sandwiches. Thick sliced marble rye with no character, a small smear of dijon mustard, and about a half-inch of homogenized pastrami. My wife stood looking at the menu, said "there's nothing there that even sounds good". I picked her up a burger on the way home. I doubt that the place will last the summer. At least I hope not.

[markk]

are photos allowed?

[savethedeli]

Hillarious quote...almost pornographic photo.

More photos are always welcome...

[weinoo]

A topic near and dear to my heart.

Frozen lox, thin sliced corned beef, tasteless bagels and plastic cream cheese has taken over the Deli world. Every Deli wannabe says that thier Deli is authentic but in reality the majority of Deli owners have no idea what true authentic Deli is like.

Just got a shipment from Russ & Daughters today. One of the best Deli's around today.-Dick

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Well, you may have gotten a shipment from R & D - but that's not deli...that's appetizing.

Katz's, Carnegie - that's deli!

[racheld]

Love this thread!!! I, too, am a whitebread (actually cornbread, if truth be known) convert, Southern raised and deli-deprived. We had a little hole-in-the-wall "cafeteria" in an adjoining town, the "shopping" town. The small "hot-line" could always be counted on for sauerkraut and some enormous juice-bursting sausages, two per order, with a dainty string-bow holding the little garlicky garland together. Another pan held slumpy stuffed peppers, the beef-and-more-garlic bread stuffing wafting its siren-call up and over the other fragrances in the display.

Scalloped tomatoes, crisp latkes the size of thick saucers, their tiny frill-cups of applesauce and sour cream awaiting your choice, a deep pan of the yellowest noodles I'd ever seen, halves of shiny-brown baked chicken and their roasted potato-wedge accompaniments, the first and only "green" green beans of my experience, barely poached, then tossed with oil and onion and peppers. They were a far different breed from the low-cooked snap beans of our table, and had a "beany" tang to them that ours never had---perhaps the long cooking in our kitchen removed all trace of their former lives, imbuing them with the salt and hammy, porky goodness of their additions, making our beans merely the conveyor for all the rich tastes of Southern standards.

And way down on the end, after the deep-meringued desserts, the tapioca in little cut-glass dishes, the high-standing squares of kugel with its proud golden crust---the lady with a moustache to rival my Uncle Alphonse's, the avert-my-eyes-so-as-not-to-stare lady, took our measure, our unused-to-the-fare tenor, our redneckness shining through, and would ask, in a charmingly lilting accent, "RRRRRRRoll or conbraid?"

I would draw up my shoulders, cloaking myself in knowingness and all the worldly air assumable by my ten-year-old clunky little self, and say, "Rye, please."

She'd smile confidentially, reach beneath the counter, and bring forth two slices---inch-thick grayish-tan, soft, pillowy slices, crusted in gold. Onto a tiny plate they went, slid across the silvery counter to my waiting hand.

I LOVED that bread. It was Dorothy's door after a lifetime of black-and-white Wonderbread film. It was always freshly made, sometimes still warm, with a lovely silky crumb, a stretch-and-chew to the crust, and little pings of surprise when you crunched one of the seeds.

I remember that little twelve-foot counter as one of the brightest memories of my restaurant past. And now, when we enter the sanctity of the fluorescent brightness of Shapiro's, with its tantalizing scents and tastes and tables to seat two hundred, I still take up that plate of rye and bear it to my table with the same child's anticipation. And it never fails to live up to expectation.

And while not quite the towering need-a-trellis-for-support sandwich pictured elsewhere, the juicy, glistening meat with its edging of unctuous fat, the soft, perfect bread, the mustardy tang---they're all on this plate:

Along with a perfect pickle, of course.

Edited May 17, 2007 by racheld (log)

[racheld]

PS I just talked to Chris and he's bringing a pound and a loaf for supper.

[rlibkind]

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That's got to be Harold's!

[rlibkind]

And while not quite the towering need-a-trellis-for-support sandwich pictured elsewhere, the juicy, glistening meat with its edging of unctuous fat, the soft, perfect bread, the mustardy tang---they're all on this plate:

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As noted earlier, I'm a big fan of Shapiro's. But, while I know some like the soft, squishy rye, I find that's one of the few areas where they fall short. But that's simply a matter of personal preference.

[savethedeli]

For my money, the best rye town is Motown. they double bake, which gives an extra crunch to the crust, and allows the slices to be cut a little thicker and on the bias. Gorgeous.

[Pam R]

For my money, the best rye town is Motown.  they double bake, which gives an extra crunch to the crust, and allows the slices to be cut a little thicker and on the bias.  Gorgeous.

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I know most of you won't have experienced rye bread in Winnipeg, and you may think I'm off my rocker, but we have amazing rye bread here. What we lack in good Jewish delis (my family even tried to run one, bringing in our smoked meat from Montreal) we make up for in good Jewish bread.

Really. You should try it.

[savethedeli]

Scary rumors to spread: Katz's Deli in New York may be torn down for condos. The oldest deli in the country and last of a dying breed. Dark times ahead deli lovers.

New York MagazineRead the story here

[MarketStEl]

What is the best deli anyone has had outside of New York or LA? 

I'm looking for diamonds in the rough, in unexpected places.

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I wouldn't call this rough, or even unexpected, but it is outside New York or LA:

Koch's Deli, in the 4300 block of Locust Street in University City.

Dave Koch is no longer with us, but I understand his son carries on the traditions, which include lots of samples passed along the line as folks wait for their sandwiches and generous helpings of wisecracks on the side. Not having worked at Penn (it's a favorite of students, faculty and staff who live in the neighborhood just west of campus) since 2004, I can't vouch for how well it has preserved Dave's spirit.

[KatieLoeb]

What is the best deli anyone has had outside of New York or LA? 

I'm looking for diamonds in the rough, in unexpected places.

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I wouldn't call this rough, or even unexpected, but it is outside New York or LA:

Koch's Deli, in the 4300 block of Locust Street in University City.

Dave Koch is no longer with us, but I understand his son carries on the traditions, which include lots of samples passed along the line as folks wait for their sandwiches and generous helpings of wisecracks on the side. Not having worked at Penn (it's a favorite of students, faculty and staff who live in the neighborhood just west of campus) since 2004, I can't vouch for how well it has preserved Dave's spirit.

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Sandy:

Do you mean Bob and Lou Koch are no longer with us? Bob and Lou took over for their parents Sid and Frances and ran Koch's for years. Lou Koch passed away in November 1995, and brother Bobby passed more recently in August of 2005. Koch's Deli is a one-of-a-kind sort of shop that can never be replicated anywhere else. The level of hospitality and sincerity, and the amazing sandwiches just don't translate. Something about that tiny shotgun shop with the line snaking through and out the door. Pieces of waxed paper with slices of cheese or deli meat getting passed around. The bad jokes behind the counter. The milk shakes you could stand a spoon up in. I have never walked in there, no matter how much time had passed, without a warm welcome and a "Hi Katie. How've you been?" They never EVER forgot your name. They'd likely remember your order too, if you weren't feeling like a different sandwich that day than the one you had last time. The walls of the shop are papered with letters from all over the world from former customers that have moved on, but never forgotten the kindness and nourishment that Koch's brought to the their lives. That's what I'll always remember about the place.

There's more tributes to Koch's Deli HERE, in the thread following the sad announcement of Bobby's death. Some nice photos too. This place is truly unique and definitely deserving of a place in the Deli Hall of Fame.

[budrichard]

If the corned beef is not hand sliced from a piece of Brisket fresh out of the steam table, then its not Deli. -Dick

[CaliPoutine]

Glieberman's is a kosher spot in Charlotte, NC, which is attached to a supermarket. The cabbage roll is velvety, the best I've had, and the brisket sandwich on a challah bun comes with a little bowl of jus, though it's so moist you'd hardly need it. Not an old school or New York style place, but worth the trip.

Dont forget Katz's. When I was in Charlotte last year, I was told they were an authentic Jewish Deli. It was pretty good.

Where I live now, there is NOTHING in the way of Deli. If I want it, I make it myself.

I'm currently in S. Florida visiting family and I'm in Deli heaven. This morning, I visited the Sage( an appetizer shop) and brought in a bagels, and smoked salmon. Yummy. Oh, I also had a very fresh Black and White.

[judiu]

Glieberman's is a kosher spot in Charlotte, NC, which is attached to a supermarket. The cabbage roll is velvety, the best I've had, and the brisket sandwich on a challah bun comes with a little bowl of jus, though it's so moist you'd hardly need it. Not an old school or New York style place, but worth the trip.

Dont forget Katz's. When I was in Charlotte last year, I was told they were an authentic Jewish Deli. It was pretty good.

Where I live now, there is NOTHING in the way of Deli. If I want it, I make it myself.

I'm currently in S. Florida visiting family and I'm in Deli heaven. This morning, I visited the Sage( an appetizer shop) and brought in a bagels, and smoked salmon. Yummy. Oh, I also had a very fresh Black and White.

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If you're around Broward County (Ft. Lauderdale area) pm me and I'll tell you about a GREAT joint!

[savethedeli]

I'm currently in S. Florida visiting family and I'm in Deli heaven. This morning, I visited the Sage( an appetizer shop) and brought in a bagels, and smoked salmon. Yummy. Oh, I also had a very fresh Black and White.

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[phaelon56]

There's one in my small city that may be worth checking out if you happen through this way

Pickles Kosher Deli

I recall havign a few pickles from there many years ago but I believe it has different owners now. I've heard rave reports lately about both the corned beef and the pastrami. They are ostensibly using meat supplied by Carnegie Deli in NYC.

But times have changed since my high school days (the early 1970's). Back then we had a good independent bagelry (now all we have is grocery store bagels and Bruegger's), a terrific Jewish bakery (the Snowflake - reknowned for their Black Russian bread, coffeecake and whipped cream cakes not to mention the best lace cookies on earth) and a Kosher meat market.

All of these places were in my end of town and all but the deli are gone now. We still have a moderately large population but with fewer and fewer families keeping Kosher and stores like Wegman's offering a wide variety of Kosher products - the independents could not compete.

I think the overall dumbing down / Sysco-ization / homegenation of foodstuffs is also a factor. There weren't enough people (both goyim and Jewish folks) who were willling to go out of their way to drive to these places for the better quality that was offered. Folks who had always been the target audience moved further and further out into the suburbs and seem to prefer "one stop shopping" at mega grocery stores.

[Pam R]

I think the overall dumbing down / Sysco-ization / homegenation of foodstuffs is also a factor.  There weren't  enough people (both goyim and Jewish folks) who were willling to go out of their way to drive to these places for the better quality that was offered.  Folks who had always been the target audience moved further and further out into the suburbs and seem to prefer "one stop shopping" at mega grocery stores.

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It's not just that there aren't enough people who will go out of their way. In most places, kosher meat (and other ingredients) are just more expensive than non-kosher. They can't compete. As you said - fewer people are keeping kosher, so they don't frequent the kosher places as often. Soon, there's not enough business to keep them going.

There's also another issue. In our modern world, there are people who don't want their traditional old-world foods. With each generation, there is less of a connection to these foods. Once the immigrants make it to a certain status, deli food is too low brow for them. Sushi, foie gras or a hanger steak are their first choice.

It's truly sad that Rascal House is closing - I have fond memories of it.

[phaelon56]

Two updates of interest:

1) I drove by the Pickles "Kosher" deli this mornign and noticed their new sign (the plaza they're in just got a face lift and most of the tenants put up new signage to go with it).

It's now called Pickles Kosher "Style" Deli real Kosher o not - folsk say the sandiwhces are fantastic but I"m not much of a sandwich guy and i'ts too far to drive to for lunch on a wrokday.

2) The Turning Stone Casino and Resort in Verona NY - an Oneida Nation enterprise with at least a half dozen restaurants, a 5000 seat arena, two Rober trent Jones golf courses, a huge hotel.... yada yada yada.... has just announced that they're adding a certified Kosher kitchen for the catering facility. They'll have it completely separated from all other food prep and serving facilities and locked down when not in use for a Kosher event.

Not surprising. With the recent closure of Syracuse's Temple Beth El it leaves Adath Yeshurun as the only Kosher kitchen facility in the enitre Syracuse-Utica area that can handle an event of more than 150 - 200 people.

And - having personally worked at dozens of events at Adath Yeshurun - it lacks the lustre it once did for the upscale clientele who want a really special event. The facility and kitchen are okay but when the crowd gets big there's a lack of adequate glassware, cutlery etc. and most of it is getting a bit oudated.

It's not just that there aren't enough people who will go out of their way. In most places, kosher meat (and other ingredients) are just more expensive than non-kosher. They can't compete.

Yes but they'll drive another ten minutes past the spot where Tannenbaum's Kosher Meat Market used to be and buy organic free range chicken for $5 per pound at the local Wegman's. Crazy world - huh?

[savethedeli]

In terms of Kosher delis, those are almost extinct. Kosher has followed the trend away from the traditional, opting more for Kosher sushi, thai, italian etc...

Just because it has the K (or C or U or whatever you are following this week), sure doesn't make it Jewish. Sadly, I've had very few glatt kosher deli meals that are as good or better than non-kosher. I think it's a mixture of cost and the treatment of the meat, which salts and dries to the point of sadness.

That said, I had a delicious cheese danish today for shavuot, so my tears are stained with a fair bit of happiness.

ess gezunt

[Pam R]

Levitts out of Montreal produced excellent (I mean, really excellent) kosher deli. They're not around anymore. Shefa (or Toronto Kosher) has some very good products.

Maybe I'll bake a cheese kugel for dinner.

[markk]

Also, make sure to head to Rascal House for one last meal.  it's being torn down later this year.

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I'm not so sure that Rascal House is do-able. I think it would be a sadder than sad experience at this point.

I should add here that nobody loved that place more than I did. I used to eat 7 dinners a week there when I'd vacation in Miami several times a year. But the Jerry's people destroyed it, and over the few years since they bought it, it's gotten worse, and worse, and worse. Now it's just a very (very) sad shadow of its former self, with food that's even sadder.

Personally, I think they did it in stages, on purpose, so that nobody would miss the place when they ultimately got rid of it. But if you go (anybody) and get anything remotely edible, and have even a marginally enjoyable visit, please do post about it!