Flakey smoked salmon or lox

[Bella S.F.]

Hope that this is not a silly question...

Many recipes call for a certain amount of smoked salmon. The recipe may say

something like "1" pieces". I know many people who call lox smoked salmon as

well as the flakey smoked salmon. In many pastas it seems like either would

work. Any way of knowing which they are talking about?

[DCP]

By 'flaked smoked salmon' I assume you mean hot-smoked salmon. Lox generally refers to brined and (sometimes) cold-smoked salmon - depending on spices and exact method, you could be talking about Nova lox, Scottish lox, Gravlax/Gravad lox (my favorite), etc.

I'd always use a cured and uncooked salmon product when a recipe calls for 'lox,' leaving the particular variety thereof as an exercise to the cook. '1 piece' is a poor unit of measurement because commercial lox is usually pre-sliced, but the slice sizes can vary widely with thickness and the relative size of the fillet.

I'd love to cite a slew of eG threads on the topic, but I'm not quickly finding any. Good luck - post if you have more questions; there are lots of experts around!

[Henry dV]

Personally I would never use cold smoked or salted/lox/lax in a recipe that will cook it as it is supposed to be eaten in it`s raw state. I would use hot smoked if the recipe calls for the salmon to be cooked further, however I suppose as a garnish or addition after cooking it would be OK.

[Forest]

Hope that this is not a silly question...

I don't think it's a silly question...in fact, it's something that's come up for me recently.

I'm from the Pacific Northwest - whenever I hear "smoked salmon", I think of the "flakey" stuff - brined and smoked. But, a good friend of mine constantly refers to what I consider lox as smoked salmon. Now, I don't understand why you would call this "smoked". It's soaked in brine, but it's not smoked is it? (I'm no salmon expert, so maybe it is and I'm missing something, but the stuff I've tasted that she's brought over from Ireland doesn't have a smoked flavor like the stuff I find in Seattle does - at least not IMO)

Now this friend is from Ireland and all of her family refer to these lox things as 'smoked salmon' as well. So, I'm thinking maybe it's just a cultural thing - and maybe you should look at the origin of the recipe (i.e.: from the US used "flaked", from the UK use "lox"). That's just a guess off the top of my head, but that's what I would do.

ETA: Although, I do agree with Hendry dV on not using lox in a recipe and going with the flakey if it's going to be cooked.

Edited April 18, 2007 by Forest (log)

[rooftop1000]

Cold smoked is the stuff some people call Lox or just Smoked Salmon.

On the East Coast I think you would have to identify Hot Smoked as a different product

Just saying smoked salmon around here would be the paper thin cold smoked salmon for a bagel.

tracey

[rlibkind]

People often use the term "lox" when referring to cold smoked salmon. However, "lox" is not smoked: it's just brined. Cold smoked salmon is either cured or brined, then cold smoked. (To further confuse things, "nova lox" is shorthand for Nova Scotia smoked salmon -- and these days, it's rarely from Nova Scotia, it just describes the smoking style. And to even further confuse things there's gravad lox, the Scandinavian cured salmon, usually with dill as an added flavor, which isn't smoked either.)

There's an authoritative list of various brined/smoked salmon products on the Acme Smoked Fish website.

When someone describes smoked salmon as flakey, I think of hot smoked salmon. At a Jewish appy store (these days, a deli is easier to find than an appetizer store) it's called kippered salmon.

I tend to agree that in pastas the hot smoked salmon would be preferred, but I can see recipes in which bits of smoked salmon are added to a creamy sauce at the end of cooking; it would provide an intense and interesting flavor.

[paul o' vendange]

Hope that this is not a silly question...

I don't think it's a silly question...in fact, it's something that's come up for me recently.

I'm from the Pacific Northwest - whenever I hear "smoked salmon", I think of the "flakey" stuff - brined and smoked. But, a good friend of mine constantly refers to what I consider lox as smoked salmon. Now, I don't understand why you would call this "smoked". It's soaked in brine, but it's not smoked is it? (I'm no salmon expert, so maybe it is and I'm missing something, but the stuff I've tasted that she's brought over from Ireland doesn't have a smoked flavor like the stuff I find in Seattle does - at least not IMO)

Now this friend is from Ireland and all of her family refer to these lox things as 'smoked salmon' as well. So, I'm thinking maybe it's just a cultural thing - and maybe you should look at the origin of the recipe (i.e.: from the US used "flaked", from the UK use "lox"). That's just a guess off the top of my head, but that's what I would do.

ETA: Although, I do agree with Hendry dV on not using lox in a recipe and going with the flakey if it's going to be cooked.

←

To add to the confusion, my taxonomy would be, cold smoked is a type of "lox," but not all "lox" is smoked. In practice, though, when I think of "lox," I do generally think of very simply cured, cold smoked salmon. But "gravlax" or "gravad lox" extends to the salmon cured, often with spices and herbs, without smoking - mine, for instance, is cured with salt, ez sugar, a variety of citrus rinds, green herbs (parsley, tarragon, chervil), and a bit of cognac. I also cold smoke with a simple salt/sugar cure.

I wonder "why not?" about the use of cold-smoked salmon in a recipe calling for cooked salmon. I prefer cold smoked salmon to hot-smoked salmon, as with the former, the fish's oils are preserved and I appreciate the texture and versatility. I would think using cold-smoked salmon in a cooked presentation would be fine, perhaps even render a better result. I often do this, anyway - i.e., (par) cold smoke duck breasts, poussin, lobster, even tomatoes and other vegetables - only to finish in a hot presentation.

[Bella S.F.]

I actually have 2 passta recipes that I do make with lox. One has heavy cream, shallots, vodka, and corn of all things. I add strips of lox at the end. I also make another... simple as can be... I cook some shallots (yes, I really like shallots), turn the heat down, add a container of creme' fraiche, sometimes add vodka, and right before I serve it I throw in the lox. Both are really yummy and they take no time to throw together.

By the way, DCP, I might not have typed it in too clearly. I did not mean "one piece" of the salmon, I meant " 1" pieces" ... 1 inch. I probably should not used the " (inch) symbol. It can be easily overlooked.

[Fat Guy]

People often use the term "lox" when referring to cold smoked salmon. However, "lox" is not smoked: it's just brined. Cold smoked salmon is either cured or brined, then cold smoked.

←

To expand on that, a New York Times article ("So Pink, So New York," bu Erika Kinetz, 22 September 2002) quotes Mark Russ Federman's daughter, Niki, on this point (Russ & Daughters is the preeminent Jewish appetizing shop in the universe):

''People use lox as a general term -- bagel and lox -- but what is traditional and genuine lox is not smoked salmon at all,'' said Mr. Federman's daughter Niki, who also works at the shop. ''It is a salmon cured in salt brine. No refrigeration needed. When people come into the store, they ask for lox, and we say, 'Are you sure?' ''

I think the problem overall is that smoked- and cured-salmon terminology is simply not standardized in any meaningful way. So you really have to interrogate people about exactly what they're saying, if the even know what they're saying.

[DCP]

By the way, DCP, I might not have typed it in too clearly. I did not mean "one piece" of the salmon, I meant  " 1" pieces" ... 1 inch. I probably should not used the " (inch) symbol. It can be easily overlooked.

←

And overlook it I did, especially with its curly brethren nearby. My apologies! Your typing, I squint now, is perfectly clear.

Still unclear, if you ask me - 1" x 1" x slice thickness? Then again, more is better with lox.

[Bella S.F.]

I noticed that some feel that lox should be used in a pure sense, the way it came from where you bought it (or made it), not cook it. As a matter of coincidence, I was just going through a small stack of Food Sections from the Chronicle that I haven't really read yet. There is a recipe for "Butterfly Pasta with Smoked Salmon & Asparagus." The recipe calls for "6 ounces smoked salmon in small dice." I would think that if they wanted the "other" smoked salmon, they would have stated "6 ounces of smoked salmon flaked". They do have you add the salmon to the sauce at the end. It would just be easier if they said "lox". If, of course, that is what they want you to use.

[rooftop1000]

I am really starting to think this is an East/West coast thing at least in the US....

There are probabley thousands of people in NY that understand what "Lox" is and what "Nova" is and what cold "smoked salmon" is. They have probabley never seen chunks of hot smoked "alaskan" or West coast salmon.

While some Seattle native who has a beautiful hot smoker rig in their yard has never had a bagel with a schmear.

Maybe I should throw some salmon on with the ribs....hmmmm

tracey

[rlibkind]

I am really starting to think this is an East/West coast thing at least in the US....

There are probabley thousands of people in NY that understand what "Lox" is and what "Nova" is and what cold "smoked salmon" is. They have probabley never seen chunks of hot smoked "alaskan" or West coast salmon.

While some Seattle native who has a beautiful hot smoker rig in their yard has never had a bagel with a schmear.

Maybe I should throw some salmon on with the ribs....hmmmm

tracey

←

New Yorkers and other megapopolitans in the Northeast do see hot smoked salmon. Only difference is they call it kippered salmon. It's not as popular as nova, but it is well-known and enjoyed my many, including me.

[paulraphael]

There are probabley thousands of people in NY that understand what "Lox" is and what "Nova" is and what cold "smoked salmon" is.

Evidently not! We seem to have some ideas about what it is, but it seems that the people curing the salmon differ. I've been a New Yorker for years (and ordered a lot of lox on bagels) and just found out what it really is right here.