Bux

An argument I've repeatedly had on the European travel newsgroup is about the "waste of time" eating when in Europe and that includes France. My argument that there's no better way to ingest and absorb the local culture than by spending time enjoying its best food and its typical food at liesure, is frequently met with replies that eating in MacDonald's frees up limited time for seeing the sights and museums. I'd respond that they'd be better off with a travelog, but they know that already as evidenced by the time we were standing on line at the Uffizzi and the person behind us suggested to their companions that they might be better off just gettting the video. I still hold out for the gut reaction when I travel.

We tend to pack food for a visit to Shea, so I'm not sure we can agree on this.

It's so clear that you should have started a new thread that I'm inclined to put my response in that thread and challenge you to find it. I have one of those and one of the others that everyone uses whether or not they bake. I have a grinder for the Kitchenaid and although I use the apparatus to stuff sausages, I rarely use it with the cutting disks. I much prefer to chop my meat in the "other" machine which is a venerable vintage Cuisinart. The meat grinder forces the meat against the disks and squishes it as much as it cuts it. Although this is exactly what's done in the butcher shop, I much prefer using the blade of the Cusinart to chop the meat which is closer to what you'd get if you had the patience to chop your meat by hand with a sharp knife--in my opinion. When we make sausages, which we haven't done in some time, I will generally chop the meat in the Cusinart and then pump it through the grinder without the disks to stuff the casings. Those are my comments on "grinding" meat. We rarely cook hamburgers and when we do, it's with no expertise and in the interest in eating quickly with little involvement. We often cook meatballs and stuffed things using ground pork, but we've become lazy and buy most of that conveniently ground at our butcher on Grand Street.

I've never seen the meat peeled off the bone in one piece in such a way as to be able to stuff it with forcemeat. Whenever I've enjoyed pit's trotters, the preparation has always involved scraping the meat off the bone. the resultant preparation may invovle adding a considerable portion of force meat or using just the meatier parts of the foot, or it may be a dish in which, although chopped--finely or not--one is very much aware that there is more cartilage than meat on the hoof. I recall a delicious tarte of sorts at the Aigle Noir in Fontainebleau. A very tasty, but crunchy layer of pig's feet sat on a thin disk of pastry. It was quite delicious and quite rich. I think I was still digesting it some 36 hours later when I sat down to a multistarred diner in Burgundy with little appetite to eat again so soon.

I didn't mean to imply the Times didn't have the right to be whatever it wanted to be or that it owed anyone anything but the truth. I'm not even sure it owes it's readership the whole complex truth, but it owes its readership an educated journalist who either knows the truth or understands the need to research it. I've seen a few assumptions made in the editorial coverage in the food section that just provided misinformation and miseducated it's young readership. As for reviews I actually don't care at whom they're aimed, but the reasonable target would be those who might eat there and not those who already do. There's really no reason to tell a regular diner anything about the restaurant in which he eats regularly. There must be reasons Daniel didn't remove the dish that drew the worst criticism from Grimes when he gave his three star review. I suspect those reasons were the regulars who ordered that dish. I wonder if it would be possible to "educate" a group of young and inexperienced potential diners to develop a common bad taste that would allow terrible restaurants to proliferate profitably. I learned a lot about eating by reading about restaurants I couldn't afford at the time.

I'd keep the shells on for the richer flavor whether or not my guess would eat the shells. I suspect they won't and you'll need some towels or napkins. Fresh lemons to squeeze on the cooked shrimp is a good idea, but keep the juice out of the marinade if you don't want it to cook and over tenderize the shrimp before it reaches the grill. The trick with grilled seafood is not to overcook it. I've had great success with a simple marinade of olive oil, garlic and some fresh herbs that I got out of a French cooking magazine in the sixties. It requires good shrimp with their own flavor and it won't impress anyone who doesn't like shrimp or who thinks shrimp cocktail is what shrimp should taste like.

My two cents in regard to comments already made is that I think the food pages in the NY Times seem to suffer from a dumbing down and there seems to have been less than knowledgeable direction from the top in recent years. Steve P. makes a good point when he says times have changed and a better one when he notes that he's changed. I see the Times offering less sophisticated reporting to a more sophisticated audience, but I have to realize my perspective has changed as I've become educated in the world of food. My severest criticism of the Times would be that I see them reaching for younger writers who they feel would communicate with the younger reader. As others have said this is about selling newspapers. In my childhood, I would have looked for the Times to find journalists who could instruct as well as they reach. Today, they seem to be expected to entertain. Maybe it's a perennial complaint, but I was a child in an age where knowledge was a commodity and a curmudgeon in an age where perceived charm is the high priced commodity.

Have you ever read anything I've written? Shaw, if Plotnicki has half as good an eye as I do, he doens't need to read what you wrote, he can smell it. [For those who don't find the immediate reference to my procrastination in picking up books to read from another thread, this is a bit of arcane humor and in no way disparaging to any character who's posted to this thread other than myself, perhaps. Excuse the humor [humor?] this has been a very interesting thread and difficult to enter at this point.]

Dinner at El Bulli in June of 2002 was just about as intersting and exciting and as our lunch in May of 2000. This was some relief as we've had some indication that perhaps Adria had finally gone over the top creatively and lost all connection with the traditional restaurant concept of providing satisfying food. On the other hand, as the restaurant was celebrating it's 20th anniversary, our menu consisted of a retrospective of dishes created during the past two decades. In 2000, there was an a la carte menu in addition to the obvious choice of the multicoursed degustacion. This year, diners are only offered the tasting menu. In 2000 one had a choice of lunch or dinner at the late hours traditional in Spain. In 2002, lunch was no longer an option and dinner which should take about four hours is served much earlier. Steve Klc had introduced us to Alberto Adria last fall in Paris at the Salon du Chocolate and he had mentioned the toll taken on the kitchen in attempting to serve two such long and labor intensive meals every day. I'm sorry to say that I found lunch the better experience in that it seemed more liesurely and offered the opportunity take coffee outside on the veranda. It may also be that by midnight I was flagging, or just that we are particularly disposed to enjoy a liesurely and luxurious lunch. Like going to the movies in the middle of the afternoon, it just seems so much more indulgent. The menu changes frequently--I believe it's weekly. A disproportionate number of our dishes came from 2000. That may be interesting in light of posts here speaking of the success of meals that year. On the other hand the menu changes frequently and Ferran and Alberto Adria are, if anything, hard to second guess in terms of what's next. Once again we dined with a friend who is allergic to all things from the sea and once again we made mention of this when reserving our table. As before, alternate meat or vegetable courses were served to him when our menu called for fish or seafood. In fact, individual souvenir menus listing the dishes we were to be served were presented as we sat down. The previous appearance of an a la carte menu may have been an idication that one might once have been able to get a traditional meal here, but the processional of tastes and small dishes--many no more than what you might expect as an amuse bouche--that has been the draw, is not a direct relation to the degustation menus you might find in most other multi starred French or Spanish restaurants. snacks gin fizz "frozen caliente" (00) Food at El Bulli is about the experience of sensations often neglected in western cuisine. Hot and cold is a combination Adria likes to use. Here the cold gin fizz was sipped through a hot froth that topped the glass--tricky, a bit technical, but an interesting and refreshing start. cortezas de cerdo garapiñadas (99) Litterally sugar coated pork skin. The caramelized sugar makes them crunchier, but for me this is too close to packaged snack food, although they were rather airy and inspite of my prejudice, I'd note their finesse. magdelena de olivas negras (97) The black olive madeleines were intensely olive tasting and oddly successful although more dense than a typical sweet madeleine. I didn't recall them as sweet. They were more likely to stir thinking about the creative use of ingredients than memories of things past. polenta inflada al café (00) Puffed polenta somewhat reminiscent of pop corn or breakfast cereal, but with the hint of coffee flavor. témpura de pistachos (90) Deep fried pistachios with a light delicate batter were again about being unexpected and more about delicacy than about a revolution in cooking "philopizza" (00) A refined and delicate wafer made of phyllo leaves with tomato and parmesan flavors. Yet again nothing creative behind the idea of a crisp with the flavors of pizza, but it succeeds on the presentation and craft. I believe we had this, or a variation, in 2000 when it was called Palito de pizza or pizza stick. terrina de foie-gras de pato con maiz frito (97) I only remember small cubes of foie gras and deep fried corn kernels and another teaser of a dish. My regret of dining socially is that it tends to keep us from taking notes. tarteleta de crocant de alcachofas con sorbete de alcachofas (96) I remember liking this dish very much, but not the details. Why is it that we often remember the ones that displease us more than the ones we like? Do we dine with too critical an eye at El Bulli? huevo de oro (01) A tour de force from the 2001 vintage and an eye opener--if such delicacy can be described as a tour de force. I can't improve on Robert's praise or discription. I'd emphasize the fact that the egg yolk is not raw but at a unctuous consistency I don't ever recall in a cooked egg. I"m normally disposed to think of gold leaf on food as rather conspicuous consumption, but here it seemed almost like a gold star on a job superbly done. Esilda said the dish reminded her of yemas, a dessert of her childhood, made from egg yolks whipped with hot sugar syrup, allowed to cool and then formed into balls and dusted with powdered sugar. If I have a personal problem with Adria's food, it's the inclusion of sugar--or caramel--in the savory part of the meal. I find it jarring at times and I find it doesn't support most wines I like. It does make cava a good choice and perhaps an Alsatian wine might be even better. We had a Gewurtztraminer that proved interesting with Miguel Sanchez Romera's food at l'Eguard.. At El Bulli, the four of us shared a bottle of cava, two bottles of white wines, a bottle of red and two very small glasses of dessert wines with our dessert. The best single pairing of the evening was with the second dessert wine. For the rest of the meal, I often felt we were drinking wine between bites rather than as part of any dish we were eating. I'll say this about Blumenthal's food at the Fat Duck in England and to a lesser extent at some of the other starred restaurants in Catalunya. croqueta liquida de pollo (98) The joy of most successful croquettes is a molten almost liquid center. At El Bulli we were warned to pop the entire croquette in our mouth. The filling here was pure broth and those with tiny mouths were at a disadvantage. I'm exhausted describing each dish and fear I'm being pedantic and boring as well. Let us continue with highlights of the rest of our meal in another post.

Tommy said "one of the," not "the best." Anyway I think his point is that just as one has to read between the lines of the menu, one has to filter the recommendations of staff according to who's speaking and where he's working. Chicken can be among the most tasteless and boring dishes on menus, but at GT it can be sublime because of the source of raw products and the skill of the kitchen. Chicken on their menu, as I once was reminded by someone with no connection to the restaurant has a whole different meaning than it might elsewhere. By the same token, so do the words spoken by staff. The person who insisted I order the chicken at GT also told me to understand that when a waiter says "I highly recommend the special today," it means they are overstocked and he's been told to push it. Yet, I see that same person react positively to recommendations at certain restaurants. You have to make these decisions on an individual basis and maybe it's not just on a restaurant by restaurant basis, but on a waiter by waiter basis. If you're a regular and the waiter is eager to keep your business and increase tips he's going to be straight about his recommendations. If he isn't, you're probably going elsewhere next time. Anyway, I've found GT staff, even in the tavern room, quite sincere.

A google search quickly verified what my wife had told me she read about what's known about it's history. The albarino grape may well be an offshoot of riesling. Some accounts say it's a clone of an Alsatian riesling, while others say it came from Germany. Interestingly enough, there's now a California Albarino. At a suggested retail price of $24, it's going to be hard to compete with the albarinos from Spain at half that price, but I admire the attempt.

There are apparently lots of traces of the Celtic culture, it's just that there's no Celtic language spoken there as opposed to Brittany where there is a local Celtic language. Nevertheless, there are many pan-Celtic music and dance festivals in which Galicia is well represented. I have some very small curiosity about all this as my wife traces part of her roots to Galicia and my daughter is married to a Breton. I've not found too much difference between the Martin Codax and the Burgans in terms of quality. It's possible that the Burgans has a little less character, but I think that's varied from vintage to vintage. Both are now made by the same company--Martin Codax owns the Burgans winery. I'd agree that it's hard to find better value although I've been seeing those wines going for prices in the upper middle teens in some shops. Spanish wines seem to suffer tremendous inflation as they are imported and sold in the US. I'm not sure the Albarinos are the best Spanish whites if only because I don't know much about Spanish wines yet, but we found that about half the white wines we ordered in Catalunya were Albarinos and that they tended to be the least expensive and most enjoyable with seafood.

I'm pretty sure it's Albariño in Spanish. Your spelling looks more like what it might be in Portugese or perhaps Gallego. Galicia is a semi autonomous region as are Catalunya and the Basque are and each has it's own official language. We're very fond of these wines. I'm also fond of the fact that they are rarely expensive. I've found the Burgans is about the least expensive one around and it can often be found for as little as ten bucks a bottle, by the case. I usually grab a case when ever I run across it on a special like that. I've never had a bad one. Some are more complex than the Burgans. I've had a few that were aged in oak casks and they were interesting, but had less appeal as well as a higher price. Galicia is a very interesting place. The inhabitants share a Celtic cultural heritage with Ireland and Brittany although there seems to be no trace of the Celtic language. The bagpipe is a traditional instrument.

I was thinking about how close a Sioux chief was to a sous chef. On the other hand, a Boloud is less likely to be confused with a Bouley than is a Boulud.

Don't overlook the advantage of an offset handle. It allows you to cut right through the bottom of anything anywhere on the cutting board without rapping your knuckles on the board. The oldest knife we still use regualrly is our stainless steel bread knife. I'm still waiting for a good excuse to replace it with an offset handled one. I see our knife is stamped Bazaar Francais France. Those in NYC who can remember when this place was tops (it's long gone from the scene) will have some idea how long I've had this knife. I don't think it was terribly expensive when we bought it.

Tommy will let you know this evening what prices will posted in tomorrow's NY Times business pages. How's that? I thought Mario had divested himself of Po a good number of months ago if not a year ago.

I agree with both of you. As Marty notes, it's a very subjective choice. I wouldn't disagree with Lizzie's contention that the standards for stars in Paris are at least as high as for those in the provinces and one might suggest far more stringent at the one star level and perhaps nearing parity at the three star level. All of that said, I have to agree that I personally enjoy dining--not just dining at three star restaurants--in the countryside more than in Paris. The emphasis is on "enjoy." It's not that the food is better and I'm not so sure I can even put my finger on the aspect that makes it better for me. Many years ago, at a time when the expense of a dinner was an even greater concern it seemed as if my money went further at all levels in the provinces than it did in Paris. These days I'm not even so sure of that, but at the time it may have been a factor in why we tended to not spend any time in Paris. The other factor that should not be overlooked was that we once had friends and connections in Paris and then found ourselves with neither and Paris took on an element of sadness for lost times. Whatever the reason, after a few years absence we returned and I found myself just overjoyed to be walking on the streets I knew. I've found it hard to avoid Paris for long since and we've made new friends in the city whose company we enjoy as well. There are a million other things to do in Paris besides have a three star meal, while once you've bought a set of steak knives, there's really no reason to be in Laguioule except to dine at Bras. Paris is also a city I want to call a second home and dining in destination restaurants reminds me I'm a visitor. Dining in a little spot around the corner from a friend's house allows me to feel like a local just a bit. Because, at heart, I'd really like to be a Parisian and have no desire to live in most provincial towns, I find I have different reasons to chose restaurants in Paris. Nevertheless there are two overwhelming reasons to enjoy a few good two and three star meals in any week I'm in Paris. Some to the world's best chefs are in Paris and the food is incredible and special in the restaurants I'd choose and how could I hold my place in any gastronomic discussion without some familiarity of the best of Paris. I've not really felt haughtiness at Parisian places, at least not in general, although there is a certain stiff formality at times that I tend to assoiciate with dining in the city as opposed to the country. I kind of welcome it just because I like places to have a different feel. It's part of the appeal of traveling. If the atmosphere of Paris was the same as that of the countryside, there'd be no reason to go there and if New York was the same as Paris, I'd have less reason to leave NY. As for Marty's first post in this thread, my momma told me never to trust a simple country lawyer, especially one who knows his way around a wine list. Marty made another good point, for those who haven't noticed, the search feature on this site is now working quite superbly and it's a good way to find what's been said already. Those members who are young enough to remember what they've said before are less likely to make the same suggestion twice even if it's still valid.

I thought Esca was a joint ownership with Mario having a part interest. I'm not sure if he owns Babbo and Lupa outright or with others and haven't heard of a split up regarding Esca, but then I wouldn't likely until it was reported in the papers.

I have mixed feelings about the original post. Generally speaking, I'd prefer to see cooly composed messages, but sometimes people need a place to vent and chopjwu12 acknowledged that he needed to get this off his chest and asked people to bear with him. That may not excuse any rash post, but at least it's an acknowledgement that what follows may appear blunt and rash. Part of my reaction was that the NY Times hires restaurant reviewers for Manhattan who have no previous experience or training in food so it should come as no surprise that they do the same with their NJ staff. In fact my complaints about the Times food pages over recent years is that some of the writers make false assumptions that they are prepared to cover the subject at hand without further research and that the Times seems negligent in regard to it's fact checking responsibilities, so no news there. Stars or no stars, two stars would be a good rating in NYC, although not a stellar rating. My guess is that with no stars, we're talking about a "good" rating. In NYC, a place like Cafe Boulud only gets a three star, every good, rating. I'm not sure if the ratings are localized, but Cafe Boulud would be the best restaurant in town in 99% of this country.

Robert, I'm really glad to hear you made it to El Bulli. It's great to hear from you and great to have your report. Sorry we could't take our meals together. You've scooped my report and I'm glad for it as I've been busy. We had many of the same dishes and I'm enjoying reading your reaction. It's not always the same as ours. For instance, I think Esilda disliked the Caracoles al Natural most of all our dishes. Such is the way of dinner at El Bulli that reaction to many dishes is visceral and yet dinner comes off as an evening of intellectual experience. I suspect it is because the level of creativity and the nature of the dishes is so often far beyond our previous experience that we must experience those dishes with a palate untrained in the cusine from which these dishes spring and then begin to evaluate them in our mind. I'm also eager to discuss the relative merits of new and old dining as well as haute cuisine and good traditional food as served by talented chefs without names, or at least ones content to cook the old foods in a rich and satisfying way. I'm beginning to understand the need for both in my diet. We ate so well at traditional Catalan restaurants now that I'm getting clues as to what to order as well as where to eat. Michelin has served us well in that regard too.

Any change at the top of the kitchen should be a cautionary sign. It's often not safe to judge a restaurant's ability to deliver food to the table based on the previous chef's cooking. After years in the business and over the course of several chefs, we can sometimes determine that a nonchef owner is dedicated to good food, but so many restaurants change with the second chef that one can always suspect a disagreement about the food may be the reason the first chef left. That said, I'd generally try a restaurant after the chefs changed if I really loved it the first time.

Simon, it is very subjective. I just thought I could shed some light on why I want smaller portions of good food and more of the bad.

You're right jaybee. Truth is that when the food is great, I want small portions and a tasting menu so I can try many things. When the food's not so good, I may as well fill up on the bread, rice, potatoes or pasta. Big portions are like loud music. I don't go to a restaurant primarily to fill up. I'm not getting any more music when it's loud and I'm not getting any more dinner when the portions are gross. I don't need to leave a restaurant stuffed to the gills. When the portions are small, I tend to savor the bites I take and thus I feel smaller portions actually help me appreciate the food.

Enjoyed the rport immensely and it piqued my interest in eating there, but I have to ask if they really called the three course prix fixe menu a "tasting menu?" Isn't the point of a tasting menu the same as what the French call a "menu degustation--a chance to sample many tastes? What's the price range of the a la carte items? You're welcome to post items as well, but it's not particularly necessary. Your original post gave me enough of an idea that I'd find enough things worth trying.

Didn't Bouley and Herme have some short lived arrangement a while back at the Bouley Bakery? I wish I could remember the details or rumors. By the way, do you think most customers feel shortchanged by lifted dishes if they really like them? I'm not sure if the media doesn't care because diners don't, or vice versa.