Bux

Suvir, if it's the caramel you like, find a Kougin-Amann. It's just pastry and caramel. Lots of sugar and butter. They are the "national" pastry of Brittany and the best are found far into Brittany, perhaps in Douarnenez, the city in which they originated. In Paris, le Monde recommends Fauchon for a good example.

I'd agree with Lizzee about online booking. Are you interested in eaux-de-vie? There's a wonderful artisanal distiller a bit south of Agen in Moncaut--Saint Gayrand. We were there years ago, 1996 to be exact. I expect he's still in operation. Telephone 05.53.97.13.83

Leslie Brenner, there's no reason not to post a link directly to the Kirkus Review so it's as easily accessible to members as the SauteWednesday review. I'd be the first to agree that it should be read. I'd also agree that it's silly to call a book "sensationalism" based on one review. I'd go further and use stronger language, but please note that I felt I was clear that I was replying to the review, not the book when I said I had not read the book and "From what I read on the sautewednesday.com page, it certainly sounds as if the book is sensationalism and meant to appeal most to those who don't eat at Daniel. I don't know if that's Ms. Brenner's fault or the reviewer's." From your remarks, you don't take this at face value, and feel I was quoting you, rather than the review. It will do little good for me to apologize for my lack of clarity now. I am curious why you take such offense, and it's clear I have deeply offended you, at my comments about the web page. While it's silly to call the book sensationalism based on the one review, I don't think it's silly, mean or insulting to say that review makes it sound as if it's sensationalism. Nevertheless, I'm sorry you found my remarks in any way insulting. They were about the review and not about the book. I don't know how I could have been clearer. I'm distracted by the mention of my daughter who has nevertheless grown accustomed to being embarrassed by a parent having spent her teenage years with her parents. I have tried to be as clear about my relationship with Daniel Boulud as I can and still afford her the professional privacy I feel she deserves. Cyrille, as you must know, is a quiet person not inclined to see his name in public. May I ask the point? May I also ask you to reread my two previous posts, slowly and calmly. For instance: Did I call you on that or did I wonder why the reviewer did, but I get called on the carpet. I think you were unfair, but I welcome you to this forum. I'm glad you got to present your side of the issues even if I have to bear the brunt of your displeasure. There are parts of your post, not directed at attacking me, that I enjoyed reading very much.

Let me make it clear that I'm not a cook. I've worked with Boulud to help him get a web site up and running. I've not worked in the kitchen, but I've visited it and seen it in operation many times. I first met him as a diner, but family members have worked for him, with him or as a consultant and may be expected to do so in the future. Feel free to view my comments with that in mind if it makes any difference to anyone. The problem I had, and I don't know if it's from the review or the book, is that the public gets a picture of Daniel out of context with the rest of the haute cuisine kitchens. Context is often everything to the understanding of a situation. implies a vulgarity that is singular to the kitchen at Daniel. "in the shit" as it is known in professional kitchens would be an expression that was far more fair to those who work in Daniel's kitchen and more instructional for those who are clueless, but you now add: and now they know no more about the industry, but have cause to believe one restaurant is an unpleasant place to work. Is that fair to them?This may be even less fair: as justificastion for writing If a reader doesn't know that the staff at Daniel is no more, and probably less, transient than that of the other top restaurants, aren't you deceiving your readers by withholding that information. How do you come to the conclusion from Breener's book that the kitchen corps isn't inspired even if they are transient. Does Brenner say that or imply that? I'd be surprised if she did. We're talking about cooks who are underpaid, overworked and taxed well beyond what's called for in what passes for a great restaurant elsewhere in the US. Why do they work there in the first place if they're not inspired and eager to get a recommendation from one of the most highly respected chefs in America? I'd love to hear from professional cooks here as to how apparent it is that the cooks that work the line in the top kitchens are likely to be uninspired. I think this is a situation that supports the contention that knowedge in the field is of more use than impartiality. I don't want to seem personal and looking at your site, I see some marvelous work. Most of it is in terms of design and organization. After reading your repsonse to my comments on your review, I'd suggest you reconsider what's apparent and what you are creatively interpolating from what's said by others. I'd also drop the links to foreign language sites interpreted by google. The resultant text makes no sense and it just looks like padding. Link to the original language site. Work on content and not on appearances. My apologies if I'm blunt. I'd rather be helpful than critical. In my defense, I can only say that I am pressed for time.

Steve P., succinctly, I agree with you that both the wealthy and the cultured can always be counted on as targets to mock for a laugh or profit. It I truly had the ability to be terse, I wouldn't go on to add that I believe one can be cultured in the art of dining as one can be in the appreciation of music or other things.

In another part of this site I just posted this comment about restaurants and reporting. Care to comment? I know a major newspaper in a major metropolitan area has a wide audience to reach and entice to its pages. I believe the questions on the minds of the least sophisticated segment can be addressed without pandering, but how much focus can you afford to raise the bar at the top? On the same subject, at least in my mind, is how much fact checking do you do on articles? Is it assumed that younger journalists have done their homework?

Geez, Steve, did you just say what I said, but tersely? On the three tier silver tray, does it seem to appear on every table lately? Do you think that diners notice what's done not so discretely for some tables and ask about it so often that it becomes necessary to offer it to all diners? I believe the madelaines were once offered only to VIP tables, but after they were written up glowingly in an article, they were offered to all tables as people started to ask for them. It's part of an interesting process in which the meals in the best restaurants have become more and more special. Culinary journalism and travel can create a more sophisticated audience that in turn demands better food and service with a more critical eye. Which of course makes books and articles that pander to cynicism with gossip so infuriating. Note that I am not accusing the book in question in this thread of pandering. I have not read it, but am responding to the flow of thought in this thread provoked by the review mentioned.

No doubt, and that allows her to be best read perhaps as inspiration for learning to cook or travel by novices and used as a cookbook by those who know how to cook. The nature of cookbooks has changed in the 20th century as more and more people learned to cook from books rather than from a parent or other cook.

Seanw, I would not discourage Bras or any other chef from obtaining the best ingredients he could find of any kind he chose to use. It's just that his locale is so much a part of his mystique that I was drawn to the items I could associate with the Aubrac--at least on my first visit. In Lyon, no closer to the ocean than Laguiole, we stopped for oysters in the central market, because they were appealing, not because we were seaside. Perhaps focus was a poor choice of word or misinterpretation of what you said. It's just that I associate Bras with a local focus because I think that's what he wants us to do. I should imagine he has a fine hand with lobster and that it would get the sort of treatment I like from him. The beef was more than tepic. It was definitely very warm and definitely not raw. I've failed to communicate the texture and sashimi may have been the wrong example. It's the lack of caramelization or crust I wanted to emphasize.

I just read the review mentioned and have not read the book. From what I read on the sautewednesday.com page, it certainly sounds as if the book is sensationalism and meant to appeal most to those who don't eat at Daniel. I don't know if that's Ms. Brenner's fault or the reviewer's. I am close to Daniel Boulud, have designed his web site and have relationships with several people who have worked in his kitchens and office. Consequently that makes anything I have to say a bit suspect, but indulge me. I wonder if it's amibiguity or the fact that most people in dining/restaurant world thought it was the review that needed improvement and not the food. Grimes panned quite a few things, but when he returned in rather short time to acknowledge four stars in a subsequent review, he managed to avoid mentioning the fact that the dish he panned the most, stayed on the menu unchanged. Fortunately there were more than enough New Yorkers with tastes far more discerning than Grimes to keep the tables filled. Daniel Boulud's first responsibility was to the tastes of his discriminating clientele and not to the pursuit of four stars from a novice food critic. There's an implication here that the expression "in the shit" is somehow unique to Boulud’s kitchen, when, in fact, it's an industry term for whenever a kitchen or a cook is overworked. It's the normal working condition of all top haute cuisine kitchens. More over, although I've seen only a few other kitchens in the middle of service, most seemed less calm than the one at Daniel. I think it implies some naivety to describe the kitchen as out of control, but I suspect it plays well to the crowd. Who hasn't worked in an office where there's not some bitching going on behind co-worker's backs. I wonder who "they" are and who the "French contingent" was as I knew a few of the French sous-chefs at that time. I mean the French contingency has always been a large part of the kitchen. My understanding is that the Americans curse the French in English, the French curse the American's in French and the Central Americans curse them both in Spanish. If you speak all three languages, "they" are less likely to talk about you behind your back. Surprise. Has anyone ever talked to a chef's wife who hasn't had to understand the demanding nature of the job and the hours required? Here we have one of the top restaurants open for lunch and dinner in a market that espects to find the chef in the restaurant at all meals and a chef with obligations that often call for him to do charity events in Asia, South America and the like and it's news that his family life suffers. What's worth reporting maybe is that he and his wife can joke about it--assuming they can. I'm not privy to their private life.But this is what rings least true to me. Is it not common knowledge that the very best restaurant kitchens serve as the training grounds for future chefs and that turnover is high in all of them almost by design? In France that's how chefs were taught and in this country it's at least the equivalent of graduate school. If Boulud has faults, one of them might be his reluctance to let good help go. Most chefs of his caliber expect a turnover at certain levels and tend to push cooks out the door for their own good. Daniel's executive chef has been with the restaurant since it first opened and the current executive sous chef with greatest seniority has been with Boulud in several categories from line cook, to executive chef of his catering divison to his present position since he was hired away from Georges Blanc in Vonnas when the first Daniel opened. I've also seen signs that Boulud knows exactly who's who in his kitchen and what they're doing after they leave, even when the party in question believed he never noticed. I don't know about the intimidation factor. I'm easily imtimidated, but long before I got to make friends in the restaurant, I don't recall being intimidated. Of course the earlier and smaller restaurant was more intimate and perhaps less intimidating.

I have only one of ED's books and haven't cooked from many of the recipes in it, but the more ambiguous terms have over time offered the most enlightenment. A french mushroom soup has been a fall classic in our family. There's only one variable in it--the soup is thickened with a slice of bread, unspecified as to size and texture. Over the years we've moved farther afield from the safe peasant white bread into ryes, whole wheats and cut the bread thicker or thinner. It never mattered. The soup was always perfect and above all it seemed that no matter how it varied, it was just the way it was supposed to be. Each version in turn convinced us it was the right one.

I think it's not a question of whether it's reasonable for the diner to eat at that hour--in Spain 11:00pm is a very reasonable hour for dinner to start. The question I'd have is the kitchen still in top form and is the best food still being turned out? Is the wait staff still alert and charming?

I had never seen the term "fario" before, but I noticed in on menus posted throughout the area and it seemed to be used with some distinction. I assumed it was a variety of trout and wondered if it had an English translation. I.e. was it rainbow trout, speckled trout or some other trout here. Could it refer to a variety that's now farmed and still prized, or is it identified to promote farmed trout? In any event, it's interesting to know that it's come from nowhere in short time. I'm also interested in your comment that Bras has become less personal. There's a thread in the General board here about "originality" that's had points raised about the difference between eating at a restaurant where you can be sure the chef is in residence and one where the chef may be a brand name on a string of places. Ducasse has been cited as the latter chef and Adria as the former, but I suspect Bras could substitute for Adria with ease, or even be considered a better candidate to use as an example. My thoughts on the subject are that three star restaurants, by the nature of their operation, are dependent on a kitchen team and a chef who can administrate as well as any corporate executive. The hand of the chef is not much in evidence in many cases. His absence is noted not because he's not cooking, but because his staff is poorly trained and he isn't a good administrator. Your comments here seem inline with those who find the joy in the smaller dining rooms of chefs with less fame rather than in those three star places with chefs who are, or are not, at home. I'm a fence sitter on this and enjoy a great range. time may tell where I drift and in whose dining rooms I spend the most time. In regard to le Vieux Pont, where I've eaten three times, while this was my first meal at Bras, I found Nicole Fagegaultier's cooking more like Bras' the first time I was there and least like where Bras is now on this last visit to le Vieux Pont. Her influences seem further afield now. That's an observation not a judgement of any sorts. Needing to comtemplate it afterwards might apply to both, but I think it's particularly true about Bras. I can easily see one diner transfixed by dinner at Bras, and another not getting it at all, or at least at first. I should note that there were some aspects of the evening I found very distracting and perhaps I will get to them if I have time and am able to phrase them so they are in context of the meal and remain subordinate to the cuisine. Fortunately the distractions were mainly early in the evening and the food when it arrived, refocused my attention.

seanw, did you want to know if I also had the degustation menu or if I was going to post it? For those who are interested here is the gastronomic menu we didn't choose: We didn't take this menu as the number of courses was greater than our appetite that evening. Le gargouillou of young vegetables was enticing here, but that was balanced by the appeal of the Aubrac boeuf, another house specialty. Given Bras' interest in his Aubrac countryside, the trout, a local freshwater fish, had more appeal than turbot. Although the latter may be a finer fish, it's an ocean fish. Given Bras' identification with his countryside, I'm surprised to learn of his focus on fish from the sea. I notice that there is no shellfish on either menu. I wonder if there are freshwater crayfish in the region. Foie gras is always a temptation, but we had eaten foie gras recently and lamb sweetbreads are less often a menu choice while foie gras will appear as a choice soon enough again. Little did I know that the pansette would make the dish for me. There are many reasons to choose one of the set menus in a gastronomic restaurant and the chance to taste a dish I wouldn't normally be drawn to, is a major one. The rice cakes were not so much "dry," as pasty. I do not remember them as bound with caramel, but they may well have been now that I think of it. Perhaps if I had more appetite I may have appreciated the dessert. At that point I was looking for a light French rice pudding and a less challenging dessert. The dessert was challenging in a way that none of the savory courses were. I am familiar with kasha from my childhood. It was a grain I would not eat as a kid. My tastes have changed, although I can also vouch that my mother did not serve it with lamb sweetbreads and crisped julienne of book tripe. Bras' aligot was not much different from one I had in a brasserie in Rodez. Aligot has a very interesting texture and quite different from what I had expected. These were the first two times I had had it in France and I was glad to have the two versions whose similarity convinced me they were both authentic. I had the dish once in the states, but that was more like what I might expect if you told me it was mashed potatoes and cheese. The real aligot had a texture I might describe as more similar to "silly putty" than I expected. And I mean that in a nice way. I suspect it's the cheese, and I now believe the dish has to be eaten in the area. The beef was rare, not raw, although I could best describe the difference in texture between the surface and interior of the meat by suggesting sashimi. If there is nothing to compare with a charcoal grilled steak in one's mind, Bras' beef would not be appreciated, but if you can appreciate the delicacy of raw tuna, you are likely to find the beef a treat as well. It's an alternative to eating a steak with a caramelised surface, rather than a replacement that suggests you abandon the old way.

Bureaucrats can be amazing. What they do best is make regulations where none are needed. Can regulations that govern a situation that doesn't need regulation ever be reasonable. I'm not an anarchist by nature.I should not be surprised if those bureaucrats next propose that cows, sheep and goats are grazed on a hard surface as well so that it can be hosed down in the evening. Edited to acknowledge Frieda's comments about placement of the quote box.

It is a small world. I don't know how often Jack has returned to l'Astrance, but he and I ate there on the same day in July of last year. He had lunch and we had dinner, as I recall. It was the weekend we first met him and his wife in person. We had been long time correspondents and I had hosted his earliest guides to Paris on the WorldTable site. We met for dinner at Chez Michel, (10, rue Belzunce, 10th arrondissement, 01 44 53 06 20) a fit restaurant for this thread. If memory serves, Margaret Pilgrim was one of the first people to tell Jack about l'Astrance.

Let me start by posting our menu. Evaison & terre à 81 euros Les aperges vertes du Languedoc sur une émulsion lactée, rélevées de "stock-fish;" tigues et feuilles de printemps: "ails des ours, tamiers, mourons des oiseaux ... Asparagus with herbs and young spring leaves, and a creamy espuma. Les filets de truite "fario" d'eau froide juste radis: unde vinaigrette aux oeufs et aux herbes fines, pousse de choux montés. The "fario" trout had a firmer texture than the one we had in Belcastel. As I'd been told that wild trout is extremely rare in this parts, I asked if this is farm raised or wild and was told it's somewhere between the two. It was trout that had been raised under special conditions more resembling the natural condition and had been fed a diet like that of wild trout. I was pleased with both the relative quality of the trout and the honest answer. La poêlée de ris et de pansette d'agneau mélée de kasha; trait de vinaigre, un jus dpagneau perlé. Lamb sweetbreads and book tripe. The sweetbreads were excellent but the tripe was something special, unexpected, and it made the dish memorable for me. It was cut in fine strips and must have been precooked and then sauteed with the sweetbreads and buckwheat (kasha--and that's not the French word either as far as I know). There was a crispness that offset both it's own tender ness and that of the sweatbreads. The kasha added a level of earthiness in a way I've never appreciated about kasha before. This was a simple dish ungarnished by vegetable and it was perhaps, my favorite dish so far this trip. Le filet de Boeuf fermier Aubrac - pur race - rôti à la braise; buerre "léger" au poivre, côtes et feuiles de moutarde. Roast Aubrac beef served rare with mustard greens and no sauce except for the juice from the beef and a bit of butter. The surface was as unchared and rare as the center. It was a small portion and might not have suited a Peter Lugar patron, but it was enough for me and there was enough food so far to have made me glad I didn't succumb to the larger menu. "clin d'oeil à l'histoire d'Aubrac;" l'aligot. A wink at the history of the Aubrac. After the beef was served a portion of aligot, the classic mashed potatoes with garlic and local white cheese from the rerion, arrived at the table. Les fromages Appellation d'Origine Controllé de l'Aveyron & d'à côté; (laguiole, bleu des causses, racamadour, roquefort, st. nectaire, fourme d'ambert ...) et l'ecir de l'Aubrac. The cheese cart, in a region lucky enough to have cows, sheep and goats, offered an excellent selection in terms of variety and quality with only local cheeses. Une interprétation autor du riz et de l'annas: un coulis aux agrumes et aux raisins. A dessert of crisp rounds of dried pineapple and rice cakes that was not to my taste and one I did not find at all compelling. There were some very pasty rice disks between dried pineapple slices. It's appeal for me was limited to the visual, although it was enlived somewhat by a nice sweet pineapple sauce. This meal was very much a bargain by New York standards. There is also a 128 euro Découvert & nature menu with five courses, cheese and three desserts which sounded very appealing, by the way. The rooms were about twice the price we've been paying in the simpler country places we had been staying but they are far more luxurious, elegant, and well appointed, although the design looks better than it works in some aspects. There was a a refined sense of simplicity in the meal that's not at all about simple cooking, or simple ideas. The complexity doesn't hit you over the head. I believe Cabrales used the word "gentle" to describe the food. It may be most apt. I can't think of a better adjective off hand, but it doesn't really tell you much about the food. I suspect it's the gentility and delicacy of the food that lulls you into believing it's simple when it's anything but simple.

No Klc, I think Shaw has a fair fix on what I said, although you correctly read my main thrust which was to complain about unfairly negative reviews. Nevertheless, I got carried away overstating my position and should always be on guard against universal statements. As much as negative reviews are of less interest, I cannot categorically say they serve no purpose although I feel the space used might be put to better use by a positive review of something else most of the time. Of course negativity is often in the eyes of the beholder. When I say "Chef Jones should find himself another profession," I am offering constructive advice which should be taken in the positive sense in which it is offered. I've used the word "champion" a lot when referring to criticism. I enjoy reading writing that champions a cause or an artist or craftsperson with enthusiasm. I don't enjoy reading that "Chef Jones should find himself another profession." My recollection is that we've had this discussion here before and that Shaw had some good examples of negative criticism, but my natural inclination was to file them in the dark recesses of my mind.

Steve, things change. Restaurants with chefs who have never left the kitchen decline too. How would Loiseau's sous chef affect Jardin des Sens? I don't know that they ever had a sous chef in Montpellier. There were two brothers and I heard things were not going smoothly at le Jardin des Sens before they opened in Paris. The one thing I haven't said is that it's easy. On that subject I will say it's very hard to find a sous chef of such capabilites and harder yet to have him work the way you want. That's why I consider it such an accomplishment to have a restaurant that can function so well when the chef is halfway around the world. The real point of my Loiseau statement perhaps is to say that a great three star kitchen these days is rarely a one man show, but an almost corporate effort. This is not something I applaud or favor, it just is that way. Every sous chef is not capable of running the restaurant while the chef is away. Second, those that are may not be in a position to open a restaurant. Understand as well that I am giving the chef great credit for being an executive, I am not necessarily giving the sous chef the same credit unless he has found and trained someone to take the reins while he is gone. Clearly if I'm implying that with a great chef who's also a great executive, it shouldn't matter much or at all if the chef is in Michigan and I'm eating at his restaurant in France, it cannot be taken that I mean you're better off. I've also not claimed Bras is the executive Ducasse is. It's also true that when a chef does what Ducasse has done, he becomes a restaurateur as much as, or more than, a chef. Perhaps that supports your views. Do you mean Adria is famous for "a" technique, or for his technical ability? My understanding of Adria's fame is that in appreciative circles, it's based on his exploratory creativity and that the technique is merely a means to an end. I'd love to hear what Klc has to say about the basis of Adria's fame. It's entirely possible his fame is based on different things in different circles. On Ducasse's fame, I take issue with your statement that I've twisted what you've said. I tried to be careful inquoting your words, or so I thought, and questioned your statment about branding on the basis of what you said. I don't know that Adria is a greater chef than Ducasse, but he's a different kind of chef. If the standard by which all chefs are to be judged is originality how can one chef leave a legacy of dishes that other chefs will use? Adria has given the world some techniques, but I don't believe that's his claim to being a great chef. Ducasse's greatness is in his finesse and perfection, which can't be copied, but can be emulated. It's a more abstract legacy and it it's not influential, it's cooking's loss.

In regard to the lounge and the dining room view, it was lovely at eight o'clock, but by the time we started dinner the sun had all but set and there was no view. Aword to the wise is to arrive early if you want to be sure to have an aperatif in the lounge. The seating is limited. On the other hand, as we had a window table in the dining room, there was no need for us to enjoy the view in the lounge I suppose.

Tarte Tatin is not something I've looked for in Paris, either in restaurants or patisseries, so I haven't noticed it. A friend who spends more time in Paris than I do and whose opinion I trust told me it's more often served in cafes in Paris than in "real" restaurants and that it's rarely seen in patisseries as it's best served minutes from the oven. She mentioned that she had a wonderful tarte tatin, subtlely flavored with tea, at the Mariage Freres tea salon on rue des Grands Augustins in the 6th arrondisement, but that it's not always on their menu. Best I've had in NY may have been Claudia Flemming's at Gramercy Tavern, but I haven't noticed it on the menu recently. Le Jardin Bistro, intrerestingly enough, had a very good tarte Tatin, but I haven't had it in a very long time and Gerrard is no longer cooking there. The food was often uneven as well.

If nothing else we are a perseverant bunch here at eGullet and obviously a force with which others will have to contend to get a reservation anywhere in the world. We are willing to work for our meals.

Let's not forget that in addition to awarding stars for superior food, Michelin points out restaurants that serve a simple but acceptable menu for less than 14 euros using two coins as a symbol, and with the "Bib Gourmand," restaurants that offer good food at moderate prices which are noted as around 28 euros in Paris and 21 euros in the provinces. I've found these pointers as reliable as the stars when you want a light meal or a budget meal. We haven't eaten at a Routier very recently, but sometimes pass them at inopportune moments and think fondly back to our first road trips in France when we traveled without plans or reservations and always on the lookout for the red and blue Routiers signs. The last time we ate in a Routier, it was in a small city and we had purposely headed there as it was also one of the Michelin small change listings. We had a charming little meal of the sort that reminded us of the joys of traveling poor in a place where it was almost impossible to find a bad meal. That's unfortunately not true in France these days, and I can't say if the Routiers signs are as reliable as they were forty years ago, but between them and the Michelin you ought to be able to find a meal that's cheap and will not insult to your palate or stomach. As much as we loved the food we found in the Routiers restaurants, they often served to convince us that the safest time to drive and cover any distance was from noon to two o'clock while the truckers were having lunch and the most dagerous time to be on the road was when the truckers finished lunch. We often developed a strategy for buying provisions at eleven-thirty before shops closed for lunch and holding off our picnic until two. It worked well enough until the aroma of cheese and paté wafted through the car. A half kilo of very ripe strawberries from a market could stop the car as soon as we could pull over.

I would like my Italian renaissance paintings to be from the artist's own hand, but few historians are willing to certify that many are. So few of us are willing to grant the term artist to a chef, but we demand to eat work directly from his hand. I should hot key the line from William Echikson's Burgundy Stars where Loiseau introduces his sous chef by saying he "cooks Loiseau better than I do." In the 21st century, restaurants are too big and the food is too complex for anyone to assume the chef's own hand is invovled, even when he's in the restaurant, he's not "standing at the head of the line inspecting each dish." If it's a general rule that one eats better when the chef is in residence, it still wouldn't prove it's necessary for all chefs in all locations and one cannot make a justifiable case against any single chef by holding him to a standard that's a "general rule." I think you have to dintinguish between when you are talking about generalities and when you are talking about individuals, especially when you refer to individuals who are certainly at the head of the class. When Regis Marcon was carving and serving our lamb en croute he wasn't in the kitchen overseeing anything. I may fool myself thinking he had overseen the cooking of my dish and the serving, but others had arrived after us and their food was still being prepared. I might assume I was the most important diner that evening, had I not seen him carve other diner's lamb while my order was being fired. John, my guess is that some of the great artists, never touched up a work, although they may have had sous maitres artistes do that. Steve, you said: Bux - There's a huge difference between Ducasse and Adria. Adria has his foaming, his jellies and his freezing. Tell me what is Ducasse's culinary legacy? I can't think of a single thing But my remark was made not in reference to legacies but to the order of the horse and cart in regard to Ducasse when you said: Even if you're satisfied that Adria's fame is based on the unique technique he's created (and I believe that's still debatable, but one might first have to debate the definition of "fame") there's the point I made that Ducasse was able to brand himself because he was famous and did not find it necessary to become a brand to make himself famous, as you suggest. It matters little if you respect his food or if he was unjustly famous for copying Italian dishes. His fame enabled him to brand himself.

John, by Relais Gourmand standards, it's not particularly a posh place. I don't remember the men's room however. We were there in the fall of 98. I too remember the intensity of the tomato sorbet and my wife remembers the oysters and pearls. I don't remember if they were served at the same time, but she and I got separate dishes from the kitchen.