Bux

jaybee, French haute cuisine may have no leader, and I've said that recently in a post somewhere on this site, but there are a significant number of chefs who are producing first rate food. The single strongest voice in western cooking these days may be Ferran Adria in Catalunya. The strongest movments today may be in Spain--in Cataluya, the Basque provinces, Madrid and perhaps elsewhere. While some of the best chefs in New York today show strong Italian influence, I don't know that it's haute cuisine that serves as the influence even if their food is haute cuisine. I also don't know the names of Italian chefs. Perhaps they are household names to cooks. I know the names of several Spanish chefs and their kitchens are increasingly being sought as places in which to stage. Nevertheless, we are all limited by what we know and what we don't know. Italy is an area in which I have very little familiarity. I've loved almost every meal I've had in Italy from the simplest trattoria to three star restaurants, but I am not drawn to the food. I've been increasingly drawn to Spain for the food in spite of the fact that decades ago I dismissed Spanish food as heavy and uninteresting.

I had considered this point earlier, but I could already hear the response--Italian food is popular, but not with those who really understand great food. As for it's rise to semi-haute cuisine, there's a similar reply that as it's learned from the French and incorporated the techniques of French haute cuisine it's come to resemble that cuisine more. The second argument has great validity in proving the dominance of French cuisine and perhaps even it's superiority in certain areas, but the first argument is just too self serving to sway opinion--it's better, well because the people with discerning taste prefer it.

I would generally and eagerly agree that French cuisine is best, but when asked why, I'd hate to base my case on it tasting better. Surely that's totally subjective and to go the step further and say that those who are knowledgeable agree it tastes better is nothing more than saying those who agree are the ones we deem knowledgeable. It cannot be proven that French food is "better" or that one thing tastes better than another without agreeing on the subjective conditions first. While the subject is fascinating to discuss, I can see why Toby was upset by the vehemance with which some of us pursue the issue. It is as if we really expect to win these arguments on merit. That merit being our superior sense of taste and insight. It does, at times, smack of some arrogance even among friends, if the humor is lost. For all that, I need to say that if French food is the very best for many reasons including taste, complexity, or whatever, it doesn't hold that all French food, high and low, is better than all other food. Can we prove the superiority of French cuisine over Italian by noting that French chefs have mastered risotto or by saying that Italian chefs have aped the cooking of magret de canard and now serve rare duck breast? Which is it, that the French can skillfully incorporate Italian food or that they can influence their neighbors? Perhaps it's the genius of the French that they can do both. Okay, but in what way that the Italians haven't done the same in these examples.

You're likely to get a busy signal. I forget how far in advance, it may be two months, the reservations open up for a given day. All tables ae quickly reserved within hours.

My experience is that the few hours are wasted if spent in one day. If you can't get through quickly on the day reservations open for the day you want, you're not going to get a reservation.

I'd not make a claim for the superiority of either risotto or paella, but if you're in New York, I'd advise going for the risotto. It's likely to be better as well as closer to the original. Just to prove that I'm not guilty of rice-ophilia, I'd throw bouillabaise into the equation as well.

The db burger is a product of the 21st century and I will claim that xenophobia is dying at a rapid pace in France at the turn of the century. Most remarkable is the change in attitude the French have made towards people like Boulud in the past ten years as well as the change in attitude of French chefs working here and in France today. It's the times that inspire Boulud and not his Frenchness which he had to overcome. He's very American in subtle ways. The remarkable thing is that this very American-ness make him more interesting to a Frenchman today. I don't think Soltner or those of his generation would have made such a burger, even if it was claimed he regularly stopped for a hot dog on his way out to the Hamptons. The db burger is not very French, it's very Daniel Boulud and another sign that this is a turning point in French cuisine. It's not as French as it's been for 200 years. That's never occurred to me and I don't see why you believe it. Britain is insular by geography--you can't leave it by a land route. Once you're on a boat why dock in France when you can continue on to Spain or Portugal. Indeed the British preference for Port was aided by the fact that it could be shipped directly as could Sherry. As for Italy, ferries have and do operate between the UK and Belgium and the Netherlands. The Alps are a significant, but not overwhelming barrier to a land route from the north to Italy and even today people cruise the Mediterranean leaving the UK by boat. The best you could offer is an argument supporting France as part of a preferable route. To say "YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH FRANCE" flies in the face of geography. I'd also suggest that for raviloi to get from Rome to any part of France, it didn't have to be carried by a single traveler. It would be enough for the next door neighbor to learn the art and for this to be repeated often enough. I wish I could remember exactly how canalons (cannelloni) got to Catalunya, but as I recall it was a direct route from Italy or Sicily based on political alliances and travel via the land connection did not play a significant role.

Any theory of cultural absorbtion based on France's place as a cross roads of travel has to ignore France's reputation as a xenophobic culture when it comes to outside cultures. Chauvinism comes to mind as the single word to describe the French attitude towards foreign cultures in the past 150 years or more. I'd ditch this as a valid explanation for France's unique place in western cuisine. The French revolution is as good a place to start as any. Steve comes closest when he says: Public places in which to eat, date back to antiquity and certainly travelers have always needed to be fed enroute, but the modern public restaurant as we know it in the west probably dates from just after the revolution when out of work chefs previously serving royalty started figuring out how to earn a living with their skills in a more democratic society. I don't believe the home cooking of France is so much more complex than that of it's neighbors Spain and Italy in spite of the attention given to cassoulet, and to the extent that it may be, there's a certain feed back to the home that has come from having such a focus on restaurant cooking over the years or centuries. Haute cuisine, which is really another name for complex cooking, got a jump start in France and until los hermanos Adria came along, no one had caught up.

anil, it may not be your inability to distinguish between a two and a three star restaurant, but the ability of some two star restaurants to serve a better meal than some three star restaurants, that's the factor here. Good service should almost go unnoticed. Too much service can be annoying especially when it calls attention to itself.

That's a difficult question that might be answered by other questions before a satisfactory response could be given. One immediate question might ask how much you intend to spend for dinner, or what sort of restaurants you would like to frequent. It's easy enough to get elsewhere for the occasional treat, but as good as any neighborhood might be, I'd like a metro stop handy for cheap easy access to other parts of Paris to increase my choice of daily restaurants. When we visit Paris, we tend not to focus very much on the restaurants near us, but hop in the Metro or take a bus to places on a list of restaurants we've collected without regard to location or where we will be staying. These are just as often as not, inexpensive restaurants. If you eat out every day, do you need to shop for anything to have at home? I can't imagine not having access to good markets, bread, cheese and pastry to bring home even if I ate out every day and access to shopping would override restaurants most of the time.

I am thrilled to eat in my neighborhood, thrilled that is to eat a thrilling meal in my neighborhood. Let's just say it is a double thrill to eat well without leaving the neighborhood. Currently, Blue Hill comes closest. That is, it is the thrilling restaurant that's closest to me--walking distance, in fact--if not actually in my neighborhood. If it were not there, I'd probably go uptown more often. I've only eaten at Ouest once and I loved my meal. I'd eaten at BUtterfield 81 when Valenti was cooking there and I loved that too. Somehow the Upper East Side seemed less remote as a destination, although the Upper West Side is just as close. I always mean to make the trip and I suspect we will. In spite the mediocre reviews here, my meal was good enough to keep Ouest on my list. I sense that Valenti does good hearty cooking best and Ouest may be most enjoyable in cooler weather. I loved the strugeon version of frisee salad. The decor was not a factor in my enjoyment of dinner, one way or the other. 11 Madison Park is one of the few places where the room itself actually gives the restaurant an advantage when I think about it.

jordyn, my problem is that I don't know where my ending point will be until I've found the restaurant in which I want to have dinner. liziee, the red guide is required at times. The web site is useful at times. It led us to a hotel in Roses by a process of elimination. The friends we were meeting, have a dog. There are fewer hotels in Spain that are as dog friendly as in France. It also led us to a good place to stay in Lloret de Mar, although it failed to warn how little we would like the town. I guess we already had an inkling about the restaurants in which we wanted to eat and none of them were connected to hotels or even had interesting places to stay in town. Nevertheless, even with most of our reservations made, we bought the latest red guide to Spain when we got there.

Pibales have a very short season. I believe it's in the fall. I've had them in Amat's old place outside of Bordeaux. I've seen them for sale in Barcelona canned, but I wasn't sure if they were the real pibales. A manufactured pibale is also on the market. Kurlansky's The Basque History of the World tells of a vermicelli like surimi product sold as "gulas." The Spanish name for pibales--which is the French name for elvers--is angulas. It's txitxardin in Euskera, the Basque language. I think Steve said that at the time he took over Robuchon's space he did seem like the obvious choice to many to succeed Robuchon, but that with hindsight, it's easy to see why he didn't. I'm not sure there's a chef with a cuisine that make him a more natural choice than Ducasse. While Ducasse is not the leader, I don't see a leader anywhere else and I'm not sure that's necessarily bad. The lack of a leader may be seen as an indication that French cuisine is not going anywhere, but it may also mean a certain freedom for chefs to create and find their own direction. That will be an odd situation for a country whose cuisine had been so codified in the 20th century. It's not politically correct for me to make such a generalization, but I've felt the French create best within a tight framework.

lizziee, The problem is that we only ask for point to point driving instructions over short distances. Our routes never really go anywhere in the long term and I'd go way off the straight route for a better restaurant when we cover long distances. I need to be aware of the restaurants before I can ask for driving instructions.

The most glaring fault in the Michelin web site is the lack of a map with stars. "Fault" might be too strong a word as the site is not meant to give you reason not to buy the book. It's also a shame one can't look up restaurants by name--at least I can't. Has anyone found a way to do that? One needs to know the city to do a search for a restaurant or hotel. Thus one can look for places in Toulouse, and Auch but not in the general region of Gascony. All in all, the web site is not that useful for planning a trip unless you know the towns in which you want to stop. The directions for driving are excellent however. My wife downloaded all sorts of alternate routes for a recent trip and we had them at hand for last minute decisions on routing depending on how much time we had.

Doesn't everyone have a copy of the red Guide Michelin? I'm kidding of course, but if you spend enough time and money in France, it's invaluable. It's also cheaper if purchased in France, although if you want to plan your trip, it may not pay to wait to buy it. These days we tned to update our copy every year. I'll also admit to a slight addiction to the GaultMillau guide as well. As for the research, I suspect both Robert and Lizziee responded from personal knowledge and I'll admit to checking a few things on the web. I use Google. As I noted l'Oasis is a common enough name for a restaurant and remembering Outhier, or at least La Napoule, would be helpful in finding the references to check. Steve, I can't really say I have a library. Now my son-in-law has what I'd call a library, but it's mostly in French. Whenever we buy a great book, I give it to him so it has good company.

This thread has unfortunately morphed into a discussion of menus, in the French sense of set prix fixe meals. Unfortunate only in that it lays hidden from those who might be interested and look for threads to read by title. It's an interesting topic. I've always felt set menus at any level often represented a good buy for the consumer as the savings are often shared or passed on to the diner. Often, not always. Sometimes it's abundantly clear that a prix fixe menu is an inferior offering made only to please the budget conscious. Even then, the same dish on the carte is likely to be the same as the one on the menu. As for tasting or degustation menus, They seem to be the growing trend if not the norm at multistarred restaurants. It seems to be the rare restaurant that doesn't offer one, or does my perception differ from reality. I've not eaten at every three star restaurant by a long shot. I wonder if the practice is more common to the provincial restaurants than to the ones in Paris and more common to the creative ones than to the more staid restaurants. Just beyond the borders of France at El Bulli, the home of perhaps the most noted chef in Europe--Ferran Adria, the restaurant has evolved into a tasting menu only experience. There is no longer a "carte," although it existed as recently as 2000. Ducasse seemed the natural to succeed Robuchon as the consensus "best chef" of France, if only because he took over Robuchon's restaurant. Today, I'm not sure there's a consensus. That may be healthier. I also find myself thinking of restaurants as "compelling" or not. I suspect that's a perception I've borrowed from Cabrales although we may not agree on which restaurants are compelling. We seem to agree however, that l'Astrance is compelling although not a three star restaurant. For me, the draw "compelling" may be the bigger draw than the number of stars. Oddly enough three stars means worth a special trip and two should be worth a good detour, but are there restaurants that do not merit stars that are still worthy of the trip. I found several unstarred restaurants in Barcelona that may draw me back there faster than a starred restaurant.

Wifrid, I think you've made a good point. Good, complex, expensive. - Most any successful haute cuisine preparation Cheap, simple, good. - A boiled egg. Good, simple, expensive. - Caviar Cheap, complex, good. - I can't think of it offhand, but it probably exists.

I'm game, but my place is too small. How many can you accommodate, Bux? You actually only need to feed one articulate volunteer, but I'm not sure that explaining would do anything to change Steve's mind. While I find complex foods more worthy of analysis, I also find that complexity often rests in the mind of the beholder.

Feed us and I'm sure anyone of a number of us would be willing to explain it to Plotnicki.

A curious post and not at all one that supports the main contention as I see it. I wish we had a great Spanish food critic to note that only rabbit and rice are the critical ingredients--or something like that. Paella can be a great dish and even the mediocre paellas most travelers are likely find if lucky, are pretty tasty. These days they may be lucky just to get a freshly made paella as Paellador seems to be cornering the market and restaurants in beach towns along the Mediterranean proudly proclaim the fact that they serve a brand name standardized commissary perpared sous vide paella. For all it's glory and complexity in ingredients, I'm not sure it's necessarily the match for a great arròs caldós dels pescadors (arroz caldosso) or wet seafood rice. Oddly enough the most formidable example of that in my recent trip was the one that appeared to be the simplest. In a two star Relais Gourmand we were served a rice in an incredibly intense seafood broth with a garnish of two gambas. In a restaurant with far less claim to haute cuisine, I had a far more complex array of seafoods mixed in with the arroz caldoso. I'm not sure which is more deserving of analysis or that they couldn't compare or suprass paella on that ground, yet in some ways, risotto is more highly technical and a better subject for analysis than either. Ultimately this discussion will always fall apart because of our subjective approach to the question at hand. The mroe precisely the question is defined the more likely we are to find a subjective point of view, or so it seems. Still the imput to the thread is fascinating at times. By the way, paella is not a Basque dish and it is widely available in French Catalunya as in the French Basque provinces. It's not a dish of Catalan origin either as far as I know. In France you get potato gratin.

I would also add that I don't want to make anyone talk about opera, if only for the reason that I don't find opera very interesting, but certainly not for the reason that there's not much to say about it. Perhaps the greatest difficulty lies in the fact that participants may have their minds made up about intellectual creativity as a topic of interest and can pick the point in history when progress stopped. I am sure the very same thing can be, and has been, said about haute cuisine.

Ah the fickle world of retail sales--in any business. It's interesting that the Midi (Languedoc) producers understand the lesssons of the new world. Of course with little tradition of quality wine of their own, it's no wonder they should look to the new world. Beaujolais was one of the wines on which I cut my teeth or at least learned my early lessons about wine by drinking. I abandoned it when prices skyrocketed and have come back now that other wines have once more leapfrogged ahead in undeserving price. There's a lot of good Beaujolais around and I wouldn't discount the thinner fruity ones that can be so pleasant, especially in the summer. There's a real problem however for producers of all wines, the market has stopped growing by leaps and bounds, but the production continues to increase.

Does haute cuisine have an opposite? I suspect it may seem poles apart from many cheap eats, but are they on the same linear scale? I think the entire western world sees haute cuisine as the epitome of high end cooking as I can't think of a single culture in the west where classic French technique is not valued and taught in cooking schools and where classic French terms are not a lingua franca in professional kitchens.

I don't see any special connection between dried cod/bacalao/bacallà and the fish chips.