Bux

Personally, I think everyone should add that to all their posts. I didn't see an icon face with that, so I'll take your comment at face value. I try very hard to be gracious. Friends tell me I have to because I'm such a sarcastic s.o.b. at heart. My intention was to point out that there are positive ways to support a cause and positive ways to react to criticism, no matter how unjust it may seem. Fat Guy deserves more than a little credit for pointing out that your respect for the site has been amply demonstrated by the sheer number of your posts as well as by the fact that the only living journalist who has written two articles about eGullet! Your actions speak louder than your words.

A short coming if you are ever going to take over the world.

John was asked to write about a certain sequence of events. No matter how few lines were devoted to this, it was the essence of the article. What bothers me about this is why his director had such a fascination with this series of events that had not fully played out, why he needed to have it written about in this professional journal and why John acquiesced not only to write about these events, but managed to reach conclusions based on speculation. I will be the first to admit that to the best of my knowledge, John did have anyone's cooperation. Public officials, politicians and corporate leaders may expect to be required to speak out or face public speculation about their public or private lives, especially in the press. Still I wouldn't begrudge them an expression of dissatisfaction at the speculation. I'm not sure we are open to the same level of public speculation and I'm sorry to see it done so prematurely by a member. It's not so big a story that it needed to be reported by any deadline. It would be naive for anyone not to expect some people here to have been offended and want to speak out about it. While no thread here is going to accurately express the full range or depth of public feeling, I'm also upset to have this one referred to as a kangaroo court. John only did what he felt was right, and he was willing to share his thoughts honestly here with us. No one should be offended by his article, and it should give us all pause for thought about who we are and how we express ourselves. By the same token, John should not be offended by what's said here whether it comes from the heart or the head. It's not a kangaroo court if only because it's not a court. No one is trying him, members are merely responding to what they see as provocation. If you browse John's web site and read his reviews of Paris bistrots you will understand why I was delighted by John's appearance on this site. No one regrets more than I do that John was distracted here and sometimes lost the focus of his love for the heart of French cuisine--that part to which we are more likely to refer to as French cooking rather than French cuisine--and was so easily and frequently distracted by the talk of luxurious meals at three star restaurants to which he needed to reply in a negative manner. For me they are one and the same. I know few people who can separate a love for one from the other. That what I've considered the best French kitchen in NYC can send out a classic tête de veau for me in lieu of what I ordered with confidence that I'd find it an honor is all the proof I need of this. That there is social injustice or economic inequity will not be addressed by denigrating haute cuisine. For all the joy I take of sitting in a three star restaurant and consuming a fabulous meal, I relate to it not through the well heeled diners at other tables, but though the cusiniers and chefs who produced it. I find criticism of the excellence achieved to be aspersions on the inspiration, hard work and talent of the workers who have produced the meal with pride and thus I understand the criticism from that corner.

I am relieved by your attempt to reassure us that this article did not reach a very important or influential group.

France has a great tradition of country inns and wayside hotels with great dining rooms. Only two of Paris' nine three star restaurants are in hotels if I recall, but one is a doosie. AD/Paris is now simply Plaza Athénée. It bears the name of the hotel in which it resides and not the name of the chef. I wouldn't say that most starred restaurants in Paris are in hotels, but I'd guess that a good number of the best hotels have starred restaurants. One of the draws of staying in certain hotels is that it guarantees a table in the restaurant. A great hotel may do nothing for a restaurant's image or reputation, but a great restaurant can do a lot for a hotel, which is why you'll frequently find them in hotels. The hotel is often willing to underwrite certain expenses or provide the space at far less than market value. In addition to Ducasse, Gagnaire is in a hotel--the Balzac. At the two star level, there are several that come to mind. Fat Guy's number cruncher can check the list on this as well.

No Nick, it's your job. Nick is correct in one way, you can't really say if a thing is art or not, unless you have a fixed definition of art. For me, art is that thing that when it's killed becomes culture. For others however, art is craft raised to another level. For yet others, it's distinguished from its crasser cousins when it's not commercial. I remember the occupation of "commerical artist." There are no more commerical artists, they've died or changed their business cards to read "graphic designer" or something. The very best a work of art can do in my mind, is not to exemplify the definition of art, but to challenge it. That challenge alone should make anyone stop wanting to discuss this issue with me, as evey argument for food as art strengthens my belief in food as art and every argument for food as art, weakens it. Perhaps food is best discussed as food without concern for it being art or not art. Barney Newman's "Art history is for artists as ornithology is for the birds" strikes me as applicable here. A great chef shouldn't worry about whether his work is seen as art, or even if it's art, nor should we. Apology accepted, but you know what, Mike, this is not going to be the last time the subject is covered.

I'm not at all comfortable with the premise that art can only be created after food and shelter are provided. For one thing, that eliminates architecture as an art, but might allow food that is designed to be eaten by those who are no longer hungry to be considered art. I'm afraid most people are too restricted in their views to consider food as art and I'm not sure art should exist apart from life. There's painting, there's sculpture, there's ceramics, there's music, there's drama, there's food, etc. Some of each is art for me, much of what falls in each category seems like less than art.

In the great French tradition, the cheese course is served just before dessert and it is best not mucked up by much of anything. Some like some nutbread. I prefer nothing and as little bread as possible. There are some good cheese and wine combinations, but on the whole I think most gastronomes are coming around to the idea that many cheeses are not so wonderful with red wine. Nevertheless, with the exception of a sweet wine with a blue cheese most of us go on finishing off the bottle of red with the cheese course. It seems weird to drink a Sancerre after a good red wine even if it goes better with the goat cheeses. Besides, most of us will select a varied assortment of cheeses from the tray. Either the French have a tradition of a cheese course because they make wonderfu cheeses best suited for eating this way, or they learned to make the cheeses to satisfy their appetite for this course. Whatever, it works in France. This does not prohibit cooks from untilizing cheese as a product in other courses. The cheese course is not an American custom except in restaurants and perhaps homes where the French style is imitated. It's not an American custom and where we've managed to incorporate it, tradtionally or creatively into all but the most French meals, it still seems forced to me. That's why I find Picholine's insistance on lecturing me about the cheese a big turn off. After all they don't present the lamb plate telling me that the potatoes were grown underground on Long Island by two farmers who originally studied to be dentists. Curiosity will not stop me from ordering cheese in America, but I doubt I'll ever enjoy it outside a French restaurant. It's just an orientation and it's the flip side of the reason Fat Guy can tolerate it. He came upon the practice without the baggage of years of enjoying the French custom. Americans are trying to both imitate the French and surpass them without understanding the hows and whys of the French custom. Almost everytime I'm served a cheese with a garnish, I'm disappointed at best. I'm wondering if they'll be serving my wine mixed with fruit juice or coconut milk the next time. For what it's worth, I'm not a big fan or sangria and don't expect it to be made with the best wines any more than I expect anyone to gussie up my epoisses. Though the trend is growing in France and I will admit has some historical precedent. Fat Guy also hits the nail on the head when he says "can't imagine liking an aged Idiazabal better without quince paste than with" The cheese course is not a European custom and not a Spanish custom. It's a French custom. On the whole the Spanish make few cheeses suited to the French cheese course. There are other ways and times to eat cheese, even in France. Brie and fruit as an appetizer is not one of the legitimate ways. I will admit that France has been greatly influenced by American ways even in dining in recent years and I don't predict that what we do with cheese will not affect the way the French begin to use it.

Here's a topic for a good thread. Do we all have a special dinner that's scared us from attending special dinners again?

Lizziee, one of the nagging thoughts I've had about my meal at l'Abroisie was that on a Saturday afternoon, the composition of the diners might not be typical of a dinner or of a weekday lunch and that my sense of the clientele may be very false because of that. I'd describe the service as I remember it as quite formal and attentive in the old fashioned sense. At one point in the afternoon, I wanted some information about the wine we were drinking (inexpensive on their list, but the price of a week's worth of bottles in Catalunya) and posed a question in French to the sommelier. He responded in French, slowly waiting for the comprehension in my eyes before continuing as necessary. I am sure he could easily have switched to English and I might have learned a bit more, but I never gave a signal that would indicate a preference to switch languages and I am indebted to his patience. Carrying on soley in French contributed more to my afternoon than the nuances I might have lost about the wine.

I don't know. I suppose different restaurants are actually for different things as well as some restaurants are for different things for different people. Churches are for praying to god, but if I entered a church and started praying out loud during the sermon, I might offend some people. I don't think offensive behavior is always so clear cut. That's why I raised the question. I'd be the first to agree that what a restaurant could and should expect from a diner with long standing reservations is diifferent from what they might expect from one who walked in requesting a table in an hour. In the case of the latter, the diner has not been anticipating the meal for some time and the restaurant is not losing more than a table that would go unsold. I'd also be quick to agree that a diner who demonstrates knowledge and appreciation of good food and wine can get away with things others cannot in a fine restaurant.In any event my comments were not meant as personal criticism, but to offer my thoughts for those less experienced than you or I in the ways of France and to solicit other thoughts. My wife and I, for instance, do not agree on when and where we draw the line as to which places are suitable for having a single course. We often disagree on appropriate dress as well. In terms of dress, by the way, I believe there are appropriate clothes for certain restaurants, but at the same time, I'd urge diners not let the wrong clothes keep them from enjoying a meal if the cirucmstances arose where they were not dressed in the clothes they would have worn had they planned in advance. My desire to suggest an appropriate tie and jacket for those planning on dining at l'Amroisie is not meant to signal inflexibility.

I said it was a glaring, but not serious error. Klc, is there room to swing on that gate of yours? I'm not a swinger, I just play one on the Internet, where is that chat site? --Oops, wrong thread. Okay, I can go either way--I mean play devil's advocate on either side. I mean it's a minor issue and neither important nor relevant in the overall picture the article attempted to paint. Why get hung up on details? On the other hand, if this is not of interest to most of the Post's readers, it is also likely that this is the only source of information they will get on the subject. Shoudn't it be correct? Does it matter if all the names and places involved could be those of dead people on Mars to the readership. Does the misinformation mar the overall picture? These things have to be taken into consideration in the real world and I'm inclined to cut some slack. For one thing, few of us should ever expect to believe everything we read in the papers, especially when the news is second hand. How did the Post report the information? Was it presented as definitive or as news they received? That makes a difference to me. Newspapers should acknowledge when they are writing from press releases and when they are reporting what they can veryify. That might be a better standard than requiring every staff reporter be an expert in the field. Neither should real life interfere with Cabrales' attempt to set an abstract paragon. Setting ideals is a worthwhile tast.

You're fired. Sorry, I just forgot we weren't paying you, which brings up the issue of not what you should know or not know, but how important is it that a newspaper not print factually incorrect information. Clearly most information about where a chef is going to appear for a benefit is not going to start a world war, but why make guesses when facts can be checked. Would you pay a nickel more for the NY Times every day if you could trust the facts reported in it? Shaw are you saying we're qualified to fill in the blanks and should do that as a public service for the industry? Will we vote on the choices and how will that affect Zagat's business?

John, can you at least remember when the best things that happened in a hotel room, happened while you were awake.

The "back room" is the little room that you reach by going through the big room, I assume. Is there a third room? I'm glad to hear we weren't bansihed to Siberia. I found that room more intimate and far nicer in scale, but I thought the tapestry was in another room, so maybe what I thought was part of the front room was actually the back and I was in a coat closet. Who knows, but outside of the staff, the only person who seemed to speak French like a native was in our room. We hard nothing but English as we walked through the other room to get to our table. A large part of the clientele was Asian, but speaking English. That went for our room as well. I don't want to focus on the room, but I have to say that I found an atmosphere that called to mind an superbly elegant funeral home. I refer to three star restaurants as temples of haute cuisine and I dislike loud diners, but when we were at l'Amroisie, the conversations were in such hushed tones that it felt as if everyoe else thought they were trespassing in a private chapel. The food is deserving of a that sort of respect, but it also merits some sense of sensory pleasure even if the food is as cool and precise as the room. With only one meal under my belt and that taken quite a few years back, I'm reluctant to categorize the cuisine, but I'd have no trouble in saying I found it classic. I had that langoustine, curry, spinach and seasme wafer dish and participated in the threads that emanated from it's description (by another) in From Paris to the Moon. At that point in my relationship with French food, it seemed to sum up haute cuisine in one plate--a couple of perfect crayfish on a bed of spinach with a contemporary version of a classic French curry sauce garnished with disk of phyllo with sesame seeds. I do not recall if the sesame wafer was merely balanced on the crayfish or floated an eighth of an inch above the food. Had it done the latter, it would not have been the most impressive thing about the dish. That may explain why I took so poorly to seeing Pacaud criticized in any way for that preparation. There was no apparent slight of hand to be seen in my main course. There's no magic involved in securing the perfect lobe of sweetbreads, studding it with truffle and seeing it gets placed in front of the diner at precisely the right point in it's short existence. At least it seemed simple from my position. With little or no experience I was able to do it just by sitting down in the right place and asking for it. My wife ordered lamb chops coated with minced truffles. I find that a bit like gilding the lily, but it was my wife's dish and she said it was perfect. "Perfection," rather than "nouvelle cuisine" seems the term to describe the food best. Paris is far less formal than it used to be, but with three stars and four forks and spoons, all in red, l'Amboisie is the kind of place I'd suggest a jacket and tie. I'd also note for whatever cross cultural value it might have, that I feel the French might regard having a single course in a formal restaurant as some thing bordering on disrepect towards the restaurant, if not their overall culture. Does anyone have another thought on that? I may be overly sensitive in this regard, but I tend to avoid even smaller restaurants when I'm not going to order at least an entree (appetizer in the US) and a main course (entree in the US) and head for a cafe, brasserie or creperie if I'm in a town large enough to offer me that chance.

There are some rather strange things on that www.saveurs.sympatico.ca site as well. Placing Loiseau's La Côte d'Or or the region of Burgundy (Bourgogne) in the Franche-Compté plays foot loose with geography. These are two distinct regions. Trama is in the Grand Southwest while another chef is merely in the Southwest. [My emphasis.] The French chefs and their restaurants are all in cities, towns or regions of France, but el Raco de San [sic] Fabes is in Spain, which is not so much smaller than France. Anyway it's Can Fabes. It's a three star restaurant and hardly obscure, even if in Spain. It's embarrassing as this appears to be a R&C sanctioned site that also features the Ecole des Chefs program that got a good thrashing in a a thread on the France board. Nevertheless, it's a glaring, if not serious, error and sign of carelessness on the part of the Washington Post

Not all restaurants and bistros are closed, just enough to make it as annoying as month of Sundays in the bad sense. My guess is that you'll find a lot of food shops closed as well. Even Bertillon the famous ice cream shop on the Ile St. Louis takes a good vacation in the summer. A current Michelin guide will prove helpful in terms of restaurant closing date information. I think Alsace is as interesting as Normandy over all. It's different but hardly devoid of history, it's been around as long as Normandy. Both Strasbourg and Colmar are worth visiting if just for a day. The Issenheim retable (Unterlinden museum in Colmar) is one of those works of art that actually manages to be as impressive as its reputation suggests it should be. The problem with Alsace in August is that its likely to be overrun with tourists from across the Rhine. Normandy may be overrun with tourists from across the channel and muchof northern Europe as well. I would not count on finding reservations nearly as easy in August as in October. We enjoyed Loiseau's place in Saulieu immensely, but it was many years ago that we were there.

I missed the thread on les Frenes. I just discussed this with my wife and will try and incorporate her comments as best I can in my post. Her first comment, which may seem self-serving, is that one should use a travel agent and particularly a travel agent who might have some clout in the area. One who does a lot of business with R&C properties is more likely to get a satisfactory response to a letter of complaint and more likely to negotiate a satisfactory conclusion. Travel is subordinate to food in this board, but it is a part of the name, so I think this is a relevant discussion. Did you place a deposit with the inn, or was the charge placed at the time you cancelled? If you made a deposit and then requested a refund, the inn will be hit by charges from the credit card company at each transaction and is probably intitled to some smaller fee to cover this. If you gave a credit card number as a deposit and were charged when you cancelled three months prior to the scheduled date, I find it rather outrageous. We had a similar situation with a small inn in the Adirondaks and fought the charge with the credit card company. The charge was credited back to our account. There was no notice of a cancellation fee on any of the promotional literature nor on the confirmation material we received. The inn's claim the notice is posted prominently at their front desk seemed invalid. I also object, in theory although I allow it to happen, when a hotel charges the room to the credit card when the reservation was made, which I supsect was the situation in your case. As much as I object to paying the bill for my stay before I leave for my trip, I realize I have probably also paid for my round trip airfare before I've left. I suppose it's always caveat emptor for the consumer and nowhere is that greater than in the travel world. Generally speaking, R&C hotels, inns and restaurants are gracious places with gracious managments and I'm a firm believer that places at that range should build into their fees, the ability to treat guests and potential guests graciously and not nickel and dime them. I'm always impressed when an inn places complimentry wine and bottled water in the minibar, and tend to remember things like that more than the price of the room which is no longer an issue after I've settled in. Earlier you mentioned publicity as a reason for hotels to participate in the chef program and I wonder if it serves their interests if they can't run it correctly. I'm also amazed at often a service or hospitality entity doesn't recognize the value of providing a response to a complaint.

There are worse places to stay. Are the books in French or English? Do you read French? Will you have a computer and Internet access to keep us informed? There is an easyEverything with cheap Internet access on rue de l'Harpe a block or so north of St. Germain and St. Michel. The Balzar served a decent andouillette, although it was a bit refined. I don't think it's much of a restaurant, but it's open on Sundays and useful if for that alone.

Paula, your experience confirms my worst fears about a program of this sort. In fact, it really goes well beyond what I might have feared. I don't know if this touches the experience of a diner or guest at a R&C inn, but it certainly isn't good publicity for them to be associated with a program that's so poorly run and misadvertised. Has your participation in the program had any effect on your thoughts about R&C properties or about visiting Boyer again as a paying guest? Did it leave a negative feeling that went beyond the Ecole des Chefs? I don't know how closely associated the Ecole is to the R&C organization and maybe you covered that in the other thread, but have you made your feelings known to R&C organization?

Where my credit card worked in French or Spanish vending machines (and it didn't always work as some machines require the microchip found on French cards) I was never asked to enter a PIN, as far as I can remember.

It's not easy to pass up a reference to the Halles in Lyon without a comment. It's the place to go if you really need an oyster fix in Lyon.

Cabrales, may we define our terms? There and back in less than 24 hours is not what we consider a day trip.

I'm pretty sure the brasserie with the staff dispute, the one that was taken over by the Flo group, etc, was the Balzar in the 5th on rue des Ecoles. Nothing snobbish about that comment and it implies nothing derogatory about the bus tour people except for their willingness to be shlepped though restaurants dedicated to doing business with customers who are clueless and will not likely return no matter what, which is another way of describing a restaurant with low incentive to please. As they have a menu posted outside, I probably wouldn't have been upset by the fact that every dish had a supplement. Anyway, part of my reaction when I passed by was why hadn't I ever heard about this place and that it must be too good to be true. Nevertheless we were walking back from Poujaran and I was thinking there must be more to the neighborhood. Poujaran offered an excellent display of bread, rolls and pastry as well as paranoia. Having bought my small selection of goodies, I handed the bag to my wife and picked up my camera to photograph the counter, only to see the shopkeeper wildy flailing her arms across the goods and eventually in front of my face. The reaction was no less than I would have expected had the KGB found me standing inside a secret missle base duing the height of the cold war. Clearly the spy had been outed and now you know why MacDonald's still uses their sesame buns--because I had been unable to photograph the secret French rolls. My though was to photograph the things I had bought before eating them and hold the photos for ransom when it occurred to me that anyone could buy a selection and take photographs and that mine would be without added value. What I'm still trying to figure out is why that never occurred to the clerk. It must be the counter that's unique. Check it out when you go there, but don't try and take photographs.

Fourteen of the one star restaurants in Paris are two fork and spoon places and one is a single set of crossed fork and spoon. I didn't think l'Astrance was much less casual than Blue Hill and l'Astrance is in the 16ième, not Greenwich Village.