fifi

Actually, I only had to add about a half cup of water. If I had to go through sealing the pot with dough or something I probably wouldn't do it. I am a notoriously lazy person. I always have salted beans from the beginning. I was just surprised that I had to add as much as I did. It doesn't matter to me since I don't try to avoid salt. I love that phrase "the bean between." The first time I do a highly seasoned dish in the pot, I will be curious as to what a pot of beans does.

Did the purple stay purple and the yellow stay yellow? If it does, you could add in some of the green and have Mardi Gras cauliflower.

The bean experience is finished. Report to follow. To recap, I used the bean pot to do a chicken recipe that I have done many times. That discussion is here. Ingredients were olive oil, fresh lemon juice, white wine, lotsa garlic, some capers, a little bit of Greek seasoning. Seven or so days later, the pot smells of the chicken dish, not strongly but I do get the aroma of the finished dish. Now the question is, will that flavor transfer to the next dish. I did 1/2 pound white beans, 2 1/2 cups water, 1/2 teaspoon salt. This goes into a 250 degree F oven. For the clay pot, I used the parchment as in the first chicken picture since that made sense. First check at 1 hour . . . I smell the chicken dish. Second check at 2 hours . . . I had to add water (no surprise there for clay verus LC) but I am not sure that I smell any chicken dish. Three hours . . . Almost done so I taste. I don't taste any chicken dish. There is one oddity, though. The beans need way more salt. In the LC, 1/2 teaspoon is usually just perfect. I had to get up to a total of 1 1/2 teaspoons to get it right. I wonder if the salt is migrating into the clay. Curious. They were done perfectly in 3 1/2 hours. That doesn't surprise me even though when I do this in the LC, 2 hours or so does the trick. The LC version is brought to a boil on top of the stove and put into a hot oven. But I started these cold in a cold oven. I am still protective of my babies. Sticking my snoot in the pot, I don't smell anything but beans. If I think really hard I may get a whiff of lemon but it could be my imagination. They are wonderful beans. I have now eaten a bowl of them with just s&p. I don't taste anything but beans. Taking the beans out of the pot, I stick my nose back into the empty pot. This is odd. I get a definite toasty smell. Very nice. But odd. Nothing burned or scorched in there. I washed the pot in nothing but hot water and the plastic scrubby thing since I didn't use any fatty products in the beans. Now that it has dried, all I smell is the original clay smell that I got when I cured it from new. Again, there may be a whiff of lemon but I don't think so. I have no idea what any of this means. Did cooking the beans somehow "clean" the pot? If that is what happened, would this be a good strategy when switching cuisines? Cook some beans in between and just have fun with whatever surprises happen? Would cooking just about anything else "clean" the pot? I just checked the individual pots where I used one to rewarm the chicken. I still smell the chicken dish in there about 5 days after I used it. Boy, am I curious. I am starting to think that carryover may not be too big a thing. But then, I haven't done anything highly seasoned with spices yet.

An admission here . . . I don't think I have ever even seen a green sausage. But then, here is hoping that I haven't seen everything yet. Now I am curious. My Diana Kennedy book doesn't list green sausage. What makes it green? (See if Dona Tere has what you are looking for. They have a sweet tamale.)

Let me take JJ's point a little further from a consumer perspective. I wouldn't exactly call Houston "fly-over country" but I do travel to smaller markets on occasion. My typical approach is to pick up a local publication or two with my breakfast and see what I can find out about dining options for the evening. I know in the back of my mind that I am not likely to find the level of critical reviews that I would in a big publication in a major market. But I don't really care. I understand that there may be a glowing report because the establishment is an advertiser. I also understand that the reviewer (reporter?) may have been comped. I make the same assumptions about the "tourist guides" laying around the hotel room. I still don't care. I have gained at least two pieces of valuable information: that the restaurant exists and something about what they serve. If I decide to try it out, I will come to my own conclusions. Nancy . . . Further to what I said above, have you ever explored how your readers use the information you provide? Can you characterize your readership?

Uh oh . . . I think my propensity for "hypnotizing" folks into buying pots is turning on me. Paula, first it was the chamba. Now she comes up with that tagra. And in the same paragraph she uses the word "gratin." We all know how I feel about gratins. There is evil at work here. Where does one get a tagra? BTW . . . Getting curious, last night I stuck my nose in my bean pot. Remember, I have only cooked the lemon chicken in it. I did get a faint whiff of the ingredients in that dish. The aroma was pretty much just like the final combined smells. Maybe the lemon was a bit more pronounced. But it was slight and not enough to concern me for a pot of beans. I just had an idea. How about I cook a pot of some sort of beans using the Parson's method. I will just cook them plain with salt and no other seasonings and see what happens.

You didn't say what style cornbread you are saving. My typical cornbread is almost an exact duplicate of andiesenji's skillet cornbread. Take a look at her wonderful demonstration here. I have occasionally had to make several batches ahead of time for a big crowd that will be eating chili, BBQ and other likely suspects. I also make it ahead for a big batch of cornbread dressing. Even though the dressing is more forgiving, I let it cool then wrap the whole bread tightly in heavy foil, carefully sealing the seams. Then it goes into the freezer. I thaw it on the counter and warm, still in the foil, in a warm oven. Works like a charm.

That is a terrific exercise, Helen. I was somewhat concerned when you said that the "Southern" style was greasier. Usually, my eaters are shocked at the lack of grease. Then later I noticed that you were using oil. I have to agree. I remember using oil one time on the buttermilk recipe thinking that it wouldn't make any difference. Boy, was I wrong. The next time my eaters wanted fried chicken, I sent them to the store for Crisco. Then that reminded me of another difference in my batch that I didn't think anymore about. While I wouldn't call it greasy, it wasn't as "dry" as I expected. Remember that I used that new Crisco without the trans fats. Now I am beginning to wonder about that. I am thinking that the lower temperature for the buttermilk coating is probably right on. Some time ago, when I finally got it right, and with smaller chicken, I am sure I lowered the temperature. My chicken almost always looked just like the Martha Stewart picture. Unfortunately, I wasn't using a thermometer at the time. I was going by how it looked. Comparing that to what I was seeing yesterday, I would guess at about 325, more or less. But then, yesterday I was also using that new fat. Damn! I am with you Susan. I will definitely be trying Dorothy's chicken. I am intensely curious. Just a note to participants. One of the wonderful things about this internet business is that, even months from now, this thread (and any of the Cook Offs for that matter) can be bumped back up and added to. So, if you are all "fried out" for now but try something later, please add. You are never "too late."

Cutting edge? I don't know about that. Flash back to somewhere around 1960. I was a latchkey kid having a good time in the kitchen getting dinner started. My Best creation was chuck roast. That always got a grin and compliment from dad. And he didn't give out compliments unless they were deserved. After browning in the Sunbeam electric skillet, I would add whatever liquid and seasoning. I would then lower the temperature until it was at a bare simmer. I marked it on the dial and it was just a skosh above the 200 mark. So I guess you could say that I have been braising at 225 to 250 for a very long time. Every time I have tried to rush it I have been disappointed. And that goes for chicken and pork as well. I have pushed chicken thighs to 275 to get the time down (thinking about entering a contest) and it was good but not the silky chicken that I prefer. I have no clue where these temperatures are coming from. All of the general information I have read about braising is all about a gentle simmer. It makes me wonder if anyone has looked in the pot at 300 or, heaven forbid, more than that. It will be boiling and jumping. Every time I have faithfully followed a recipe to the letter, I have been disappointed. Usually, when I check the pot I will give in and lower the temperature so the dish won't be ruined. I am totally perplexed.

Casein . . . Elmer's Glue . . . Of Course! *slaps forehead*

Is this a problem or an opportunity? In the case of a tagine, I would think that the longer you use it, it will develop its own flavor "patina" for lack of a better word. Now, with a tagine, you are going to be cooking within the same seasoning family so that might not be a bad thing. What I would worry about is a clay pot that got used for a fish dish, to take what may be a worst case scenario, then used for chicken, maybe. The bean pot is probably going to be used for Southwestern, Mexican and Mediterranean types of recipes. I have decided not to worry about it. Would doing more extensive curing with oil help? I am thinking that you are never going to keep water out given the porous nature of the stuff.

As they say in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy . . . DON'T PANIC! I have done much worse to this table. It is fine. This is probably going to happen with just about any unglazed and porous clay. Being a curious sort, I kept moving the bean pot and it retained enough water to make a mark for about three days after I cooked that chicken dish that I put in the eGCI.

CLAY POT WARNING! I have been leaving my Black Chamba pots on my dining table just 'cause I like looking at them. Now, my table is a crappy butcher block topped affair with no finish on it. After curing them with the water, I noticed that there is a wet spot on the wood where they were sitting. There is enough water retained in the clay that you should provide protection to surfaces that the dampness would damage. (I don't worry about this table but I do have some pieces of furniture that I would worry about that I might have wanted to sit them on just because they are so pretty.)

OK . . . Here goes with fifi’s first try in a long time and on a strange stove. The final result is very good but not without problems. I will be frank about those. I am using the Martha Stewart recipe, scaled down in part. I did leave out the cayenne because Aunt Minnie didn’t do that. I am doing four thighs that are this new brand that claims to be air chilled and not contain extra water or any baddies. I scaled down the buttermilk soak by 1/3. I still had ample buttermilk. I left it in the refrigerator for 24 hours. I think I see the first problem. I did not buy my usual brand of buttermilk (Borden’s®) and I think that was a mistake. The “store brand” was available in a 1 pint bottle so I bought that since I have little use for leftover buttermilk. I should have noticed that it is not nearly as thick as my usual. I can see now that the clingy film has not formed as thick as usual. Hmmm . . . Oh well, must press onward. I did not reduce the amount of flour from the recipe. You need enough flour in the bag to be able to toss around that piece of chicken. You put one piece in the bag at a time so that the coating is even and not knocked about by other pieces of chicken. I think the tossing around also kind of “pounds” the flour into the buttermilk film and it is different than dredging in a bowl. You might notice that I can’t get near flour without it going everywhere. Paper bags also tend to leak a bit between the bottom folds so it is a good idea to do this over the sink. Now we are ready to go. The fry pan has almost an inch of grease in it. I used two cups of the new Crisco® and about a half cup of bacon grease. The pan is on my big electric burner. I am pretty sure that the thermometer is correct because I have used it to make candy and that went well. First problem . . . Martha says to bring the grease to 375 degrees F. Well, by 350 it was starting to smoke and that bothered me a lot. So in we go. My intuition on the temperature was right on. This is frying at a rate that looks right to me. Any hotter and it may have popped around all over the place. And so now the fight begins. Did I ever mention that I hate conventional electric ranges? On my wimpy builders’ grade gas cook top, I could manipulate my temperature at will. This was a bitch. I staged putting the thighs in so that I didn’t get too much of a temperature drop. It still dropped more than I would like and I had to turn it up again, and then . . . Well, you get the picture. It is called lack of responsiveness and control. Normally I cook for 10 to 12 minutes per side, while keeping my frying temperature at around 325. Second problem that is not easy to get around. This is the result of a chicken too big. I am guessing that these thighs came from about a four pound bird but they were the smallest I could find. The crust is darker than I like but, going by internal temperature on the instant read, this is what you are going to get. One other tip from Aunt Minnie . . . If you remember, thighs and breasts have what I call the “presentation side” where you have an even covering of skin. Aunt Minnie would put that side down last. She said that by doing that, the steam coming up from the still cooking chicken doesn’t mess up your crisp skin. I have never done a side by side but it makes sense so I do it. Back to the temperatures again . . . Martha says to cook to an internal temperature of 170. No Way! I shoot for 155 to 160. I have done it “by the book” before and had dry, over done chicken. Besides, on pieces this size the crust would be charcoal. Final assessment . . . the chicken is very good. I tried to get a picture of the juicy meat but it didn’t show up or the flash washed it out (no sun today) and it just didn’t work. The salt level is just about what I like. That may be a little salty for some folks. I am disappointed with the crust. I knew it would come out too dark because of the size of the pieces. It is certainly shatteringly crisp. But it isn’t as thick as I like and it didn’t adhere as well as usual. I am going to blame the buttermilk. The Borden’s® is noticeably thicker.

I usually strain it and save it in a coffee can in the back of the fridge.

Yes, thanks for posting that article and starting this thread. Between the various tagine and braising discussions going on this will be very useful. For the Black Chamba, I just did what was suggested: Fill about 2/3 full of water and put, uncovered, in a 400 degree F oven for about 30 minutes. I was nervous about putting them in a hot oven so I started cold and started timing when the oven reached temperature. I didn't know what to think about the covers so I put them in a sink of hot water for a while. Then I heard this strange sound, from all the way in the living room. I homed in on the sink and saw these interesting trails of tiny bubbles coming up and this odd sound. I took it to mean that the lids were singing to me. The literature mentions the milk, but for sealing, and that isn't usually necessary. I have now cooked in them and don't see a need to seal. The scientist in me is always wondering about the chemistry of all of this. Unfortunately, I was lousy at inorganic chemistry.

So . . . Do tell us what a "college kid" buys at a grocery like that. Inquiring minds want to know.

Martha calls for 1/4 cup kosher salt for 6 cups of buttermilk. There is also 1/3 cup of Tabasco in there and I don't know how much that adds.

I just went through a guacamole experience. In preparation for frying chicken I baked off a pound of bacon. The bacon grease was the goal but you have to do something with all of that pesky bacon. I opted for BLAs. (I don't like tomatos.) My local HEB grocery had these lovely large Haas avacados so I procured one. It was a very large avocado and very good so I was left with quite a bit to do with whatever. Being essentially lazy, but perceptive, I spied a jar of La Victoria chunky green salsa in my fridge. So, I chunk up the remaining avocado and add about three tablespoons of the salsa and mash with a fork. Excellent. I stored it in a bowl with the original Saran Wrap pressed down on the surface and had a couple of more tasty bacon sandwiches with the "lazy guacamole."

I have to agree with Marlene. That thigh looks pretty tasty.

Thank you for having the courage to relate experiences that are less than optimum. Those are extremely valuable. We learn by our mistakes. God knows I have. I always say that to my kids and they come back with . . . "Gee, Mom. You are so smart. You must be a real screw-up." Maybe southern style fried chicken is something that shouldn't be tried for low carb. But, let me ask you . . . Would the low carb chicken taste really good if you weren't trying to duplicate the fried chicken? I mean, maybe it is a good thing on its own terms.

Please do. I have never let it sit and I am so hungry for fried chicken I am not inclined to risk any of my precious four pieces, even though I am darn curious.

That gave me a good laugh. Actually, the visual image of huge hay cutters harvesting basil (not "hand picked") had me rolling on the floor. Do you ever comment on this kind of silliness in your reviews?

Now that is an excellent question, Hector. I have always peeled pomegranates under water so that the membranes float up. But it is still a pain.

OK, you guys . . . DO NOT! I repeat . . . DO NOT give me an excuse to get another toy. Those Rayteks have been calling my name. I am telling myself to give up on that and use my remote thermometer probe. Yes. That will work. I don't really need that Raytek. Nope. Don't need it. Paula, I will bet 250 F in the tagine. Maybe less. My oven is correct and I get a slow simmer at 250 in LC, now confirmed in a clay pot. To barely simmer at all, I cut it back to 225 when braising so I can go shopping and not worry about it. But then, that technique doesn't have the cooling cone on top.