fifi

Hmmm . . . I have only ever relied on the salt in the buttermilk to do the brining. Granted, I didn't realize that that was what Aunt Minnie was doing when she gave the Morton Salt box a couple of healthy shakes into the buttermilk. Truth be known, she may not have realized it either. I am thinking that the "rattling around" phenomenon may be due to the amount of time in the buttermilk. It really doesn't get that clingy film unless it goes at least overnight. But I can't say for sure since I haven't tried it the other way. I have never let my floured chicken sit for any time before frying. Again, just because Aunt Minnie didn't do it that way. She insisted that you flour one piece at a time, give it a quick shake and into the pan. For one thing, she put baking powder in the flour so that leavening would probably be lost if let sit too long. Then it also occurs to me that adding one piece at a time with the flouring in between (and she was quick) probably had a secondary effect of not letting the fat cool down from putting too much chicken in at once. I can remember seeing her put the pieces into the big pan starting from the outside and working around in a clockwise fashion, spiralling in to the center. Then she went around the same way for turning and the same way again for taking the pieces out. All of that fiddling is probably why she didn't put a lid on for the first side. The reason I remember all of this is that the "discussion" of this technique was one of the more "colorful" between my grandma and her. The same discussion happened every time Aunt Minnie came to visit. Grandma: "Minnie, just put the damn chicken in the pan and get done with it! You are so fiddly you drive me nuts." Aunt Minnie: "Ola Mae, I have sold more chicken than you ever thought about and I know what I am doing. You don't. So leave me the hell alone or get out of your kitchen." (Aunt Minnie owned a good part of Brookshire TX for a time, including the hotel and dining room. She would sell pies and who knows what all to the railroad.)

OK . . . I have had my GulleyLaugh for the day . . . Those cabinets are lovely. You certainly are making a case for internet shopping. I have added that site to my "House Stuff" favorites folder. I was particularly impressed with your design experience with them. What kind of drawer glides did you opt for?

robyn . . . Pork shoulder and butt are the same cut. Get one with enough fat on it. Pork fat is a good thing. Put it in a heavy pot like a dutch oven with about 2 inches of whatever liquid you want (get the Goya Mojo if you can or use lime juice, orange juice, cumin and lots of black pepper to sub for a Latino flavor) and lots of garlic. I don't bother to peel the garlic. I usually cook at 250 - 275 for at least 3 hours. I really look for it to be ready to be "pulled." What you are actually want for the sandwiches is that kind of meat. You are actually braising so you might want to check out the recent labs and general discussion in eGCI. If you don't have a heavy pot, just use one of those cooking bags. That works fine for pork.

Mizducky, sounds like you are in business. My sister has an old Magnalite pan that has deeper than normal straight sides and I think she calls it a chicken fryer. Putting a lid on when cooking the first side is optional, though it does help to get it cooked through if you have big pieces. When I have wanted to do this, I just used a lid that fit my skillet "close enough."

Oooooo . . . April Fool's

Does that mean that you are actually going to get your kitchen back together, Brooks? Geez. You may need to bump up your thread.

I am beginning to think that it is not only your good planning that is having a positive affect on your experience. I am thinking that your, and your family's attitude, has a lot to do with it. I am so glad you are having fun!

I am betting that the Magnalite Chicken Frier has been used in many a Cajun home to make champion fried chicken. Don't worry about it. I think that the grease, temperature and technique rule.

Ummm . . . I really don't know. I have heard some theories about the shallower sides letting steam escape but, from a scientific standpoint, I am not sure I buy that. There may be some traditional "wisdom" at work here that would not stand up in the light of day. I don't know. I will be using my cast iron fry pan for the original try. I may digress if I decide to repeat.

Thanks for doing this, Daddy-A. Vancouver is one of my favorite cities in the world. It is truly a beautiful place. Stanley Park has to be one of the most spectacular pieces of real estate to remain from the British Empire. Have you ever read any of Jan Morris's pieces on Vancouver, or some of her writings as James Morris in the Pax Brittanica trilogy? I don't know of a writer that captures the spirit of the place, or "gets the hang of it," quite as well. I have to believe that your food sources are unmatched in the world. Beyond that, some of your kitchen renovation experiences would be fun. Blog on!

Elevating the comal above the coil is certainly a move in the right direction. Given that the ring isn't expensive I think it is worth a try. On the water jars, with the salt clay, does the water get salty? I can see how the salt in the clay would inhibit bacterial growth but I am wondering about the water.

I am just wondering about this heat control thing. What about if we try to recreate the way it is done with a bit of charcoal. I may have this all wrong but, if you fire up the old Weber (or other charcoal grill), make some coals and move a few under the tagine, could you control the heat level to what you want?

Thanks, Toliver. Boy, is that obscure. And a little out of my chicken shopping range. I have just recently ponied up for a lifetime membership in Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo. I am thinking that will get me an inside track eventually. (What we won't do for a chicken. ) Anyway, chicken thighs are going into the buttermilk now.

I know! We ussually first fry the whole chicken, stuffed with the parsley butter and and all the skin at each end of the whole chicken is knit togheter with a kitchen-thread so there's no hole in it. Then we fry it and roast it in the very oven at the end. We neither flour it or bread it. Or we use chickenbreasts which we fill like Chicken Kiev. those we bread. ← Wowser! This sounds "akin to" (a Texas or Southern US term) a fried turkey. I am thinking that the next time we fry turkeys that I want to do this with a chicken. Please give us some more details on stuffing with the parsley butter. In the cavity? How much? I am assuming that you mean in the cavity since you sew it up. Hmmm . . . We have a surgeon in our entourage. Finally he can do something useful in the kitchen.

Point made. I agree with you and Jaymes about the flavor addition of clay. I still fondly remember the big clay jar of water in that very hot shop in northern Mexico. That was the most delicious water, and very cold from the evaporation through the clay. I didn't see the comal on the nuestra Tierra site. Now I want.

I think you got the differences, Marlene. What I am curious about is what the baking soda does. The buttermilk is acid, the baking soda is basic. I am wondering what's up with that?

Thanks for the link, Brooks. One problem. They don't say where they are! This isn't the first site that I have seen like that. It is like there is something weird going on. Clandestine chicken raising operations? Anyway, the Great Pyrenees dogs are really cool. It is amazing that they don't look at their charges and think . . . lunch. I may be on to something in Texas City for a Latin market. The Yellow Pages is no help. My sister and I are pretty renowned for being able to find the arcane. It took us all of 30 minutes one time to find a guy a clear plastic cane for his grandma. So, why the problems finding a real freakin' chicken??? Pullet! That is the word I was looking for. Anybody ever cook one? Anyway, Linda Four Thighs has, guess what, four of those cold air processed thighs awaiting a swim in buttermilk. I will try to capture the strange film that buttermilk forms. Then, onward to scaled down chicken frying. Then I will have to try Brooks' method, if only because I have never heard of it. (But then, that Chicken Pie odyssey, scroll down for pictures, scroll up for the recipe, was pretty spectacular. )

BA DA BING! I think snowangel has found the perfect chickens! I am soooooo envious. I gotta find a local butcher. I have a few leads down in Texas City but no winners yet that don't require a 40 mile trip. On my list of things to do when I get retired here is to contact the local schools that have 4-H and FFA programs and see what I can come up with. I think just the quest could be fun. What are those really young chickens called? Poulets or something like that? I wonder how much those weigh. I also wonder if they have any flavor.

Thanks for your reply. Perhaps I am just getting older and really don't care that much about being "happening." I am so glad you are including that in your reviews. If that practice would spread, perhaps some of these idiots would get a clue. Some of the places here, I have left with a sore throat and ringing ears. And I am talking about pretty high dollar places. I support Richard's earmuff symbols. BTW . . . OSHA regulations require hearing protection above 70 decibels.

Crisco shortening. Uh oh . . . I just remembered that Crisco has a new product out that is supposed to not contain transfats. I would prefer that for health reasons but I have never tried it. Perhaps I will since I know how the old Crisco is supposed to come out and can possibly make a comparison. I think I remember reading somewhere else here that the "new" Crisco behaves like the old. Maybe that was in Pastry and Baking. I am off to the store to get my stuff. I will have to fry off (actually bake off) some bacon since I see that my supply of bacon grease is low. Bacon sandwiches later tonight. I have never tried Brooks' method. It sounds very different. It would be interesting to compare so I am hoping one of you tries it. I am going to do the traditional buttermilk. I don't know what the buttermilk does as to tenderization. Maybe the little bit of acid does that. Most recipes say to marinate for at least 24 hours. One thing I am sure of is that it makes a fairly substantial crust. The buttermilk forms a fairly stabile film on the chicken pieces that does not easily drip off before flouring.

Black Chamba in action here. That is for braising, though. If you look at the saute pans on that site, they might be pressed into service as a comal. I guess I am wondering why anyone would want to use a clay comal, unless you are trying to duplicate ancient cooking methods (pre-iron age).

Hector . . . That sounds really interesting. Is the chicken breaded or floured? How on earth do you stuff a piece of chicken with parsley butter. Hmm . . . that could lead to all sorts of herby mayhem. I am suspecting that the reason a lot of you don't find the same taste and texture of your youth is that you are trying to fry in oil. You can do it, it just isn't the same. And, IMHO, not nearly as good. For the chicken of memories, the fat choices are: Crisco, Crisco with some percentage of bacon grease, or if you are lucky enough to have it, fresh lard. The other trick is temperature. Get a thermometer. You will not regret it. Most recipes have you bring the temperature up to 375 F, add in chicken one piece at a time, try to keep cooking temperature at 350F. You gain some in technique if you let the chicken get some of the chill off before flouring and frying.

Oh . . . Duh! I just checked with my sister. She doesn't remember getting instructions or recipes from Aunt Minnie, Grandma or our mother. We just recalls that they added the seasoned flour from the paper sack to the more or less drained pan and added milk until it "looked right." She has the same experience as I do. Sometimes it is pretty good, and we don't know why. More often it is just ok. We are now suspecting that this was a ploy to keep the descendants humble.

There wer these earlier that I just noticed. Then this one. They aren't showing up as links on my screen.

Apparantly that is the case. I have just gone through about 25 books that should have some info. That includes Villas, some Southern Junior League type collections, Cooks Illustrated tomes . . . No luck at all. That is just freakin' weird. The only reference I found was in a Texas collection coffee table style book. It doesn't start with the "drippings" but maybe the proportions will help. It starts with 3/4 cups fat, 1/2 cup flour, 2 cups milk. That seems pretty close to what Aunt Minnie did. I think she just used milk, though as she usually didn't have chicken stock around at the same time. Chicken stock was always made specifically for a dish like chicken and dumplings. She wasn't into freezers yet. (Is that supposed to be a link?)