fifi

Just a warning about mint. If you plant it in a bed, be prepared for it to take over. Some are more agressive than others, depending upon climate and where you plant it. I planted "apple mint" in a bed at my previous house. It was in a shady moist area. It went nuts. The resident 75 pound basset hound gave it a wide berth as we came to the conclusion, after much discussion, that it was capable of overwhelming small, and not so small, mammals. I have been accused of selling the house to get rid of the apple mint. (As a mint, it had pretty mediocre flavor as well.)

I have to admit that I have missed this one. Could you give some specific examples? Are they soaked shelled or with shell on?

Amen to that! By the way . . . Just as a reminder, there is an enlightening discussion going on in the eGCI Q&A, General discussion that might be useful. We are discussing braising not specific to Molly Stevens recipes. Check out the preceeding labs as well. That was pretty fascinating.

I am guessing that it is some form of pectinase or cellulase, naturally occuring enzymes. It shouldn't be hazardous . . . unless you are a houseplant. (Come to think of it, I have some acquaintances that think like houseplants. )

You are absolutely right. I agree that 3 1/2 pounds is the limit, and that is if you save the breasts for something else or hack them in half. As I posted above, packages of chicken pieces here look like they come from at least 4 pounders. I haven't seen a whole chicken at less than 3 1/2 pounds in a long time. Now that you mention it, I remember that episode. I thought the addition of the onions was really odd. I had never seen it, for whatever that is worth. I wonder if that is a micro-regional thing, sort of like poaching eggs in gumbo? Do you remember if they ate the onion? Milk gravy . . . Definitely. I think my technique for that could use some work. As I remember, if Aunt Minnie was frying a couple of chickens, she would use two frying pans so that the "crumbs" didn't overbrown with the cooking of the second batch. Then she made the most sublime milk gravy. I never perfected that. Mine is ok, just not as heavenly as I remember.

Welcome, Nancy. And many thanks for participating. More on the star system (or bells, or forks, or whatever) . . . I certainly have a take on the system that it is essentially a "soft" issue and treat it like that when making a dining decision. I also automatically think that the rating is based on the food and service. I certainly may be wrong on that. For that reason, if I have time, I will check out a place myself before an important dinner or lunch. Now why would I do that? Well, there are two other criteria that are just as important to me, noise level and table spacing. At least, I can check that out just by walking in. There are some places here that I will not willingly patronize because of noise level and table spacing. (I do get dragged along from time to time with a group.) I can think of a couple where the food is exceptionally good and innovative, is rated with two or three whatevers, but I avoid like the plague because of extreme discomfort. From time to time, I see these issues addressed by critics. It is happening more here. But, when I am away from my turf, and don't know the critic in another city, I have been badly dissappointed that I wasn't forewarned. Do you think it is the responsibility of a critic to address these issues, at least at the extremes?

I have gotten the pots of my dreams . . . Black Chamba, an unglazed clay from Columbia. And, let me add, it is all Wolfert's fault that my Amex card is now lying, pitifully wheezing, on my desk. (Actually, these things are a remarkable bargain.) So, with pots in hand, I am going to braise some chicken. I am using a recipe that I have done dozens, maybe hundreds of times. I chose it because I have done it so often, I should be able to detect a "clay pot effect" even though this is not exactly a scientific comparison. The recipe originated with a friend's treasured cook and housekeeper about 30 years ago. We call it Lily Mae's Chicken. It couldn't be simpler. Lightly brown seasoned chicken pieces, or not. (Lily Mae didn't if she was cooking for 100 at the summer house across the lake.) Mix up enough sauce to provide liquid about half way up the chicken: 1 part good olive oil, 1 part fresh squeezed lemon juice, 2 parts dry white wine. Add as much garlic as you can peel. Braise at about 250 to 275 degrees F until meltingly tender, about 2 1/2 to 3 hours, basting intermittently and taking the lid off for the last half hour or so. You can add other seasonings if you like. I do from time to time and that might be capers, olives, some herb mix, minced preserved lemon to kick up the lemon flavor. Just to demonstrate the main pot and its babies, and to show that I am doing it "Wolfert's Way," this is a shot of the main pot ready to go into a cold oven and turned on to 250 degrees F. (That is just my preference.) That is the 2 quart bean pot and the 2 cup individual casseroles. Under the parchment are four chicken thighs with about a cup and a quarter of the sauce, a head of garlic and a couple of tablespoons of capers. I did sprinkle on some Greek Seasoning I got at Penzey's because it caught my eye and seemed like a good idea at the time. (It was.) It was done after about 2 1/2 hours. A few notes: With the parchment, I didn't do the usual basting. As it turns out, I didn't need to. In braises like this, I quit peeling garlic a long time ago. I just whack a head in half and dump it in. It isn't hard to pick the peels out after cooking. Perversely, I actually enjoy doing that. I have just been remembering that russ parsons, back in the dried bean thread, noted that his epitaph will read "Did not soak dried beans" or something like that. Well, mine will say "Always cooked four chicken thighs." Hey, it works for me, remember I am now cooking for one. Anyway, having strained and stored, I am ready for the reheat step. This is where the baby pots come in. My strategy is to store the meat and liquid but be prepared to reheat in individual servings. In these pots or for a normal serving I would normally reheat two thighs. Unfortunately, I kept picking at the darn things and only had one presentable thigh left. Oh well, that is all I want for lunch anyway. Here we go with the jelled juices and a bit of the olive oil. I put the cover on and into a cold oven, turned to 250 degrees F and it was done in 30 minutes. Houston, we have lunch! Final verdict? Clay pots produce absolutely excellent chicken. And, they are so darn pretty. Parchment paper gave me the same results as the usual basting for this recipe. I am now a believer. I can't wait to try this with beef short ribs. It also occurs to me that the milk braised pork would look fabulous in the black pots, and then there is that beef short rib recipe with pieces of red tomato, then . . . Uh oh. Here is hoping that I am not at the beginning of another serious pot addiction.

I agree, however, I was just reading through her marinating procedures for the Saurbraten (which I'm now preparing) and she says, "... I prefer a glass or stainless steel bowl. Whatever you use, don't use plastic; the acidic marinade will absorb flavors from plastic." Given that this recipe requires a 48 to 72 hour marinade with regular "turning" so the meat marinates evenly, I certainly would have prefered using the zippered bag method. Do zippered plastic bags leech contaminating "flavours" like plastic bowls do? ← I have to think that this is myth. In the first place, the main brands of zipper bags are made of some form of polyolefin plastics . . . polyethylene, polypropylene or some blend or copolymer. (Ziploc® brand is polyethylene.) They do not contain plasticizers or anything that could leech out. I have never detected any flavors in the final product and I use them for very acidic and delicate ceviches. If the plastic was a PVC (polyvinylchloride) you might get something (think "new car smell") but I don't know of any storage bags, or other containers for that matter, made out of that. There is some discussion going on about BPA (bisphenol acetone) but that pertains to polycarbonate primarily. If you check the recycle symbol on the bottom of food containers, that will tell you what plastic is used. In the case of manufacturer's plastic bags, you can usually find out what the plastic is by going to the web site.

Just to throw in another approach for Southern US style, I checked James Villas' recipe against my Aunt Minnie's. Actually, the one I checked was his mother's recipe in My Mother's Southern Kitchen. It was pretty much Aunt Minnie's as to quantities but there were some departures. No Tabasco, no leavening in the flour mix, and the chicken gets a dip in milk before flouring instead of the longer soak in buttermilk. The paper bags are there, as are the frying temperatures. Having started into "research mode" I thought I would see what we have said here in the past. I found this interesting thread over in Southern Food Culture. I am sure that all of these approaches differ in the details. For those that are making the "traditional Southern style," it will be pretty interesting to see how the variables work out. But I certainly hope that all of this talk of Southern style doesn't discourage the sharing of various other techniques for baptizing a bird in fat. edit to add: How could I forget this article, Robb Walsh's discussion of the subject with none other than John T. Edge.

Welcome to the Society, Dawn. Please report back when you go. I think we would be especially interested in a report on food and wine that you got to appease hubby.

Kristin . . . I think I have seen yogurt used in some recipes instead of buttermilk. Optimum size for a whole chicken to be cut up is about 3 pounds. I have seen a recipe somewhere that uses Panko crumbs. That sounded pretty good, actually. It doesn't have to be a traditional Southern US recipe.

I have made the Two Fat Ladies' recipe man times. It is a real winner. I used to do this all the time: Dice a shallot or two and soften in butter. Use as much butter as you like. Add the peas and a bit of chicken broth, not enough to cover really. Add some minced fresh oregano and s&p to taste. Sweat the peas on low heat with the lid on until tender. Smash a few peas to thicken the sauce.

Yee Haa! I am up for this. I think I found the original Martha Stewart recipe (she has several on her site) and it is the one that my sister swears is just about exactly what Aunt Minnie did. All of the elements are there: the buttermilk, Tabasco, baking powder, paper bag for flouring and the bacon grease if she didn't have enough lard. We don't think she added cayenne to the flour, though, just salt & pepper. My challenge will be finding small enough chickens. The last couple of times I did this, the chicken pieces must have been from a chicken over 4 pounds. They got a little darker than I like before the bigger pieces were done. Needless to say, I will be pan frying. In my mind, that is the only reason to go to this much trouble at home. I will also try to scale the whole thing down. I know that sounds nuts, but I don't want a ton of chicken hanging around and am not likely to be entertaining If I can find some small enough, I may just do a package of thighs. It will be interesting to see if it is really all that much trouble or if that is just in my mind.

If we do chicken I will share my Aunt Minnie's secret.

Please post on this thread about your experiences. We really value the feedback.

I have to nominate the Gumbo Ya Ya thread. This was one of the most satisfying threads I have experienced here. We had folks all over the world making gumbo and making it well. I lost track of where all gumbo was being made but it was amazing. Of course, I am not exactly an unbiased reporter.

You are so right about the corned beef. About this time of year I have to have my corned beef. I have a heck of a time finding the point cut. Last year, I did find some and smoked it. It was so good. The price was about what you report as well. If the smoker isn't fired up, I braise it with a coating of whole spice crab boil and it comes out like butter. The fat could be spread on a cracker to make deliciousness. Why oh why is it so hard to find?

I have been known to use orange marmalade, with the cloves of course.

I am betting that they also remember your dancing to the Mamas and Papas. That is a really good thing.

Heh heh . . . How did they turn out? You could just rename them: "These aren't pancakes, they are gabanaras, an obscure recipe out of the highlands of Peru."

robyn . . . Get a pork butt and slow roast it or braise it with Goya Mojo Criollo until it is pull apart tender. I have found pieces as small as 3 pounds. Then put portions into small foil packets for reheating in the oven or toaster oven. (I think microwaving makes meat taste funny.) That stuff is pantry gold.

I am having a hard time finding lamb as well. I really don't want to buy a whole leg. I am still going to try this. *jumping up and down* Fried Chicken! Fried Chicken!

Oooooo . . . Confessions of the plate cleaners?

Uh . . . Confession time. I have been known to use the bones from the plates to make stock. I just don't tell. From a hygeine standpoint, you are correct that the final product will be sterile. But, then, I normally start the stock as part of the cleaning up process so they aren't sitting around for any time at all.

Ah well . . . It is the oven. I think your cookie experience confirms that. Nothing to be done but flip and flip.