Dave the Cook

Something like a Flemish olive, Lily? And since elyse has deserted me for fifi, would you be interested in a sink-side orgy? (No, I have no shame.)

Cool. Thanks, Brad.

I don't think anybody is arguing that there's no difference between one chemical and another. Instead, I'd say it's not helpful or useful to look at a list of ingredients, read the chemical names off and assume that they're all evil. They're not. I won't counter your capitalism argument, as it's clear that it has a dark side. But capitalism also brought us those refrigerators and smokers, too. (As for distracting you, well, I'm sorry, but you've contracted eGull's Syndrome. Make two posts and check your threads in the morning.)

I don't know for sure, but I think it's fat. If that's the case, it's yummy, even though it looks disgusting. I've seen this most often on larger sizes -- 16/20s and up.

Good point. I don't care about the grape variety. I always pick the one with the better sulfites.

Dave, the bloodless Bloody Mary is good fun. Amaze your friends with it. Good idea. I'll spring it on them when they're hung over!

I thought that was Alaska, of all places. I have always understood that the region with the highest per-capita consumption of icecream was New England. This was decently discussed in another thread where someone looked up the Federal statistics... and I believe Vermont edged Alaska in per capita consumption by state. OK. But it's not someplace gawdawful hot like Brownsville Station, which is what I'd expect.

I thought that was Alaska, of all places.

fifi: you're right, of course. I find that most people have no problem understanding the "everything is chemicals" proposition. They nod and make positive noises. Then they walk away and revert to reactionary habits. It's not knowledge that's lacking, it's the will to act on knowledge. You know that merlot contains sulfites, don't you?

I've never liked tomato soup, hot or cold. But since I've got a few to spare, maybe it's worth another try. Otherwise, I'm leaning toward lots of basic sauce (Ms David seems like a good starting point, as always); some for caramelizing and snacking; and I might try a confit. Or the chutney. Unfortuantely, along the tomato water, it borders on the weird for my audience. I'll have to figure out some sleight of hand to present it. On the other hand, that curd is really intriguing. I've got quite a few green 'maters, too, and we've been doing lots of them as fried greens, especially with a blue cheese remoulade -- a great combination. Despite my recent public exploration of it with Maggie, I'd forgotten all about the Nero Wolfe book and its jam recipe. I'll have to check it out again.

Just to clear up one point: palm oil is neither more nor less fattening than any other fat. I won't open a discussion on saturated vs. unsaturated fats, except to say: although it has a negative reputation based on its proportion of saturated to unsaturated fats, palm oil is considered neutral in its effect on serum cholesterol. Otherwise, fat saturation is not relevant to the debate at hand; it's a completely separate (though perhaps worthy) topic. For purposes of obesity causation, fat is fat is fat.

You're lucky that's all it took. I had to resort to Photoshop.

enthusiast: I wasn't trying to render a judgment on the desirability of any particular ingredient. I'm with you on the slight queasiness that comes from relating pesticides and food. My point was that, despite what the excerpt alleged, these things are already in most kitchens. This includes the glycerides in your egg wash. Food processors break things down because it gives them better control over ingredients and product assembly. Raw eggs, for instance, are a pain: you have to refrigrate them; their desirable qualities deteriorate over time; you're always having to juggle supply and demand for a perishable product. Matthew: I've had the same notion; maybe we should set up an eG quiz show (another round could be: Does It Need to Be Refrigerated?). Succinic acid has long been one of my favorite components. On the other hand, amyl acetate reminds me of a gray-market inhalant popular in the 70s and 80s. Gives me a headache just thinking about it. FG: the story of the Mom-and-Pops is exactly what I would expect to happen, and I am not ideologically opposed to additives and preservatives. But the slippery slope shape of the thing reminds me of the movie The Candidate, where, bit by bit, Redford's character is seduced by the desire for success. By the time he wins, he's forgotten why he wanted to run in the first place. Same with artisinal producers: add a little of this for improved texture, a little of that for longer shelf life, and pretty soon the product doesn't taste or act the way that made you want to produce it in mass quantities. edit: spelling, clarity

I like the idea of a granite space around the sink. Very smart. I could match it with a similar area near the oven, too.

I'm pretty sure Mercedes has customer approval ratings in the high 90's, too. That doesn't mean I can afford one! And like fifi, I've always been pretty happy with laminates: 90% of the function for about 30% of the price. These days you can even get raised bullnose edges at minimal additional cost. And I can install it myself (FG, you can come help me put in the undermount sink; then we'll both know how). I'm not a fan of big stretches of countertop tile. I am concerned about cracking and chipping (but not staining; bleach does work just fine), but the inherent uneveness of the surface -- it's just inconvenient, as far as I'm concerned, and creates sealing problems around the sink. But I would like a heat-impervious area -- something in granite or concrete or ceramic tile -- in close proximity to the oven, so I can pull hot stuff and just set it on a counter without having to find a trivet or pad. I has this arrangement in the last house, and it was one of those seemingly little things that made a huge difference in utility.

I have to dispute the contention that this list includes an overwhelming number of ingredients not found in the typical American kitchen. when you compile it all, here's what you get: water salt corn starch, combined with water, then dried and ground chicken broth rosemary oil mono- and diglycerides: common emulsifiers also used in cake mixes, aerosol dairy products and pasteurized cream triglycerides: the most common form of animal fat. In other words, if you're in the kitchen, so are triglycerides. non-fat dried milk bleached wheat flour corn flour baking powder Crisco, Wesson Oil, or a combination of the two citric acid The only things on this list that appear to be uncommon items are TBHQ and dimethylpolysiloxane. The first is an antioxidant added to frying oil to retard its breakdown. Antioxidants (which prevent the formation of free radicals) are generally considered a good thing. And if you're sure it's not in your house, think again. It's used to prevent spoilage of animal feed, so it's quite likely you're already exposed. It's also used in lipstick. Anyway, if I fried as much as McDonalds, I might be interested in it. It's often introduced with citric acid, which acts as a synergist with TBHQ. The second, as it says, is an antifoaming agent. It is also used as a filler for pesticides. It is considered low-risk by the EPA, since its molecular weight is so high that it is unlikely to be absorbed either through the skin or through the intestinal tract. If you were to make breaded chicken pieces at home, you'd end up with an ingredient list that wasn't much different. The fats and emulsifiers simply allow McDonalds to control the proportions of these items with more precision, or give them the luxury of some shelf time before cooking. Note that there are no eggs in this recipe; the glycerides and lecithin are most likely substituting for them, both physically and nutritionally -- close enough, anyway. I won't get into the fat issue, except that I would think that most people might have some apprehension that deep-frying, even properly done, might increase fat content. The disingenuity represented by this list only clouds the issues. If the case was decided based on this sort of reasoning, we should be more concerned about our legal system than a box of McNuggets.

It seems to me that with an undermount sink, you don't eliminate grech deposition, you only move it from the counter surface to the point where the sink meets the vertical edge of the countertop. I've been thinking about this a lot, because the installation of my sink and laminate countertop was poorly done. As a result, the plywood underlayment is rotting out. I've got a few months to figure out what to do, but not much more than that. I could redo laminate counters three times before I exceeded the cost of Corian, and that doesn't include the added hole cost to which Rachel alludes. On the other hand, Corian offers one of the only two solutions to the grech problem that I have seen. This is the formed sink that is seamlessly integrated with the countertop, leaving no grech accretion zones. Cost aside, Nick points out a nag-worthy flaw: the glue. Although the sinks are probably thermally and chemically bonded (something akin to PVC plumbing), I'd like a backup system. (I'm pretty sure that a typical undermount sink is held in place by a series of brackets, and fully gasketed or caulked.) The other solution is a continuous stainless steel sink and counter. This is how the problem is handled in commercial applications, and it is flawless for their purposes. But the aesthetics leave something to be desired. I'd like a durable, functional surface. But I also want to cook in a place that's pleasant for me and the non-cooks in the house to look at -- it is a home, after all. Otherwise, I'd go back to cooking for a living!

Thanks, everybody. katie and fifi: I'm on board with the sauce; you think that simpler is better? I'm always looking for an excuse to acquire a new toy, but I won't be allowed this one, since I broke the last one I had. I've since replaced it with a food mill, which does the same thing, but looks sufficiently different to have passed inspection. Maybe canning equipment will satisfy the toy urge? soba: carmelizing sounds cool. What temperature, and do I use oil or sugar to help them along? Tomato jam is intriguing, too. Can you point me to a recipe? Grant: I'd forgotten about confit; good idea. As for tomato water, what do I do with it once I've got it? (edit: I see Jinmyo has helped out here. Great ideas; thanks.) elyse: you can come stand next to me at the sink. We can wipe the juice from each other's chins.

Each summer we plant tomatoes. Each summer the early ripeners fall prey to various varmints (no offense, Dean): squirrels, racoons and deer; the rest shrivel and waste away while we're on vacation. This year, we staggered the planting (and put in extra plants), the deer and coons have disappeared or been finished off by automotive predators, the squirrels have apparently realized that tomatoes are not their thing, and we took vacation two weeks early. I now have two dozen tomatoes on my counter, red and luscious. (At an average seven to eight ounces each, that's over 10 pounds.) There are another couple of dozen still on the vine that will be ready in the next five to seven days. Then the staggered planting will kick in, and we'll go through this again. I am tempted to simply stand over the sink and slurp each of them down with a pinch of salt. But much as I love tomatoes, I suspect even that will get old. And it would leave me little time to feed the eG addiction. So I'm looking for suggestions: good ways to use up large quantities of tomatoes, while preserving their homegrown qualities.

I had a few bites of the fried Key Lime Cheesecake at Indigo in Denver last week. They had taken a cylinder of cake, about 1/2 inch by 4 inches, rolled it in breadcrumbs (and maybe egg first?), then fried it. It was lighter and creamier than the unfried cake, of which I also had a sample, and the crunchy crumbs were a nice counterpoint. If memory serves, there were three of these pieces, served with a Malibu Rum dipping sauce. I thought it was a successful dish.

Brining truns brisket into something else entirely: corned beef. Smoked corned beef. Yum.

Sunday's show (7/27) is previewed in this morning's Atlanta Journal-Constitution, including a prominent quote from this thread: The AJC took an unusual tack in having John Kessler, known for food rather than TV writing, do the piece. Article here.

If you click here, you'll be magically transported to a thread where the talented (and apparently prescient) tommy has already done a search. Edit: scroll down to the penultimate post.

Not a post, Eric, but Maggie's article on Edouard de Pomiane. Put a pot of water on to boil, then click here.

OK! Now I'm in!