Dave the Cook

Infrared broilers run on gas?

That's a pretty good deal on the Amana. I can't vouch for their quality one way or another, but list price is about $300 higher. If FG's exotic notion doesn't do anything for you, I have an alternative. Again, I can't vouch for quality, but it seems to have a lot of what you want, plus an electric convection oven, and a little more power on the top. (I didn't compare the broilers.) It's one of the least expensive dual-fuel oven I've seen. I admit that I'm not crazy about the grates. Kenmore Elite Dual-Fuel Range

FOr smoking only, I would recommend the WSM, too. But SG- is looking for a combination smoker/grill, and the WSM is not set up for grilling. The Char-Griller is, as is the corresponding New Braunfels (I'd stay away from the cheapest of their units -- the $99 one, but the rest are very good).

Recommended by the inimitable Colonel Klink himself (also what I have): Char-Griller Smokin' Pro $199, shipping included.

here's an even better one. edit: damn, you'd have to add this one too. damn Stone posting about smoking in the General forum. tommy's is better. dammit.

Here's a search results page that includes, along with cigarette threads and threads about brandished guns, most of the accumulated eGullet smoking wisdom. Smoke me. At 165, you've long since killed any critters, but you haven't reached peak succulence -- the connective tissue needs time to render. That's what gives you the sensation of juiciness, even though the proteins have actually squeezed out most of the water-based moisture. The 185 temperature allows the meat to not only get done, but the collagen to fully melt.

I was trying to determine if freezing the egg yolk was worth the bother for a home cook. You have convinced me that it is if the intention is to reduce cholesterol or a create a more neutral mayonaise, but probably not otherwise. Thank you for the wealth of information and I think I will forgo the experiment. There is no need to tread where experts have gone before. Jim You went through pretty much the same thought process I did. It also turns out to be a good techinique for getting a really thick mayo that you want to dilute, as in FG's recipe. Thanks, Marlene.

Using Frozen Yolks to Make Mayonnaise The emulsifying power in a single egg yolk in its raw state is substantial. But it can be further enhanced by freezing the yolk first. A cup of mayonnaise can be made easily with as little as 1/4 of a frozen yolk, though it will be on the thin side; this is not because you use less yolk, but because, regardless of the amount of yolk used, the quantities of water (or water-based liquid, such as lemon juice or vinegar) and oil do not change. The repercussions from this are quite interesting, but perhaps better left for another thread, so I'll just put the basic quantities and technique here. If there's interest, I'll start another thread or find one to add it on to. I'm going to use whole yolks here, because the mayo base for the recipes above needs to be thick to accomodate an added 1/4 to 1/3 cup liquid. This should result in a good body for the finished sauce. And the addded liquid, if it's thoroughly whisked in, will stabilize the sauce. 1. For each cup of mayonnaise, freeze one of the following combinations: 1 whole yolk for four hours 1 whole yolk whisked with 1T lemon juice (not vinegar) for eight hours 1 whole yolk whisked with 1T water for 24 hours 2. Have ready: pinch salt 7/8 c oil, not more than 30% unrefined (e.g., EVOO) oil 1 T water or other water-based liquid, or a combination 3. Allow the yolk to thaw 4. Put the yolk in a bowl and add salt. Beat lightly. 5. Add oil 1/4 t at a time. Once the emulsion thickens, you can add larger quantities. If the mayo gets really thick and looks like it's sweating oil, whisk in a few drops of water. 6. If, by the time you've incorporated all the oil, you still have more than a tablespoon of water left, whisk in enough additional water to make about 1-1/2 T total. Note: use of more than 30% unrefined oil will result in an unstable mayo -- you'll have just a few hours before it breaks. The second mayo recipe, calls for two cups of oil. A single frozen yolk will easily accomodate this, and make a good medium-weight mayonnaise Keywords: Sauce ( RG576 )

Beef Mayo 1/4 c defatted veal-sherry reduction (he specifies 2 C stock reduced to 1/4 C, so adjust accordingly) 2 T neutral oil 3 T finely minced onion 3 T finely minced celery 2 tsp minced garlic 1 bay leaf 1 tsp ground black pepper 1 tsp dry mustard 1/2 tsp cayenne 1/2 tsp chopped fresh thyme 1 tsp brown sugar 1 tsp salt 1 egg 2 c neutral oil 1. Heat 2 T oil over high heat until it shimmers. Saute the pepper, mustard and cayenne for about a minute, stirring constantly to prevent burning. (You do want the veggies to caramelize, though.) 2. Add the onions and celery and saute for another minute, then add the garlic, stirring, until the aroma blooms, about 20 seconds. 3. Reduce heat to medium low. Add the sugar and salt. Saute another two minutes. 4. Remove from heat and stir in the thyme. Allow to cool ten minutes, then remove the bay leaf. 5. Whiz the egg in a blender or food processor for about 30 seconds. Add the vegetable mixture and puree for about 15 seconds. 6. Add 2/3 of the oil in a steady stream, then add the stock in the same way. Finish with the rest of the oil; continue about 30 seconds after the oil is gone, scraping bowl down frequently. Note: there's not much acid in this recipe, so either adjust the seasonings with white wine/rice vinegar or lemon juice; or keep it under refrigeration until it's time to serve it, and put it back in the refrigerator it as soon as you're done. Keywords: Sauce ( RG575 )

Sauce for Brisket 1/4 c defatted veal-sherry reduction 1 T soy sauce 2 star anise, or 1/4 t five-spice powder 1 garlic clove, minced 1 T brown sugar 2 T rice wine vinegar 1 egg yolk pinch salt 1 tsp prepared mustard 3/4 c neutral vegetable oil, plus 3 T sesame oil dash pepper sauce 1. Combine the reduction, soy sauce, star anise, garlic, brown sugar, and vinegar in a small saucepan. Bring to a boil over high heat, then reduce heat and simmer for one minute. Remove from heat and allow to steep for another minute. Remove the star anise (if you're substituting five-spice powder, add it now). Set liquid aside. 2. Make a mayonnaise, starting with the egg yolk and salt to get an emulion going, then adding the mustard, then the combined oils in the usual manner. Add a few drops of the reserved liquid from time to time as you make the mayonnaise. 3. Whisk in the rest of reserved liquid and pepper sauce. Adjust seasonings. 4. Cover and refrigerate. Note: I'm not sure about the mustard, taste-wise. I left it in because it's in the original recipe, but I'm pretty sure it's only there to help the emulsion, which, IMO, doesn't need it. So if the mustard seems a little weird to you, too, leave it out and make the mayo in a food processor, using a whole egg to start, as in the next recipe. Keywords: Sauce ( RG574 )

The use of frozen egg yolks in commercial mayonnaise is a matter of convenience. It's much easier to control frozen inventory than something that has a shelf life of a couple of weeks. But it's also economics. If you're making millions of gallons of mayo, cutting the cost of your eggs by two thirds can make a big difference in the bottom line. If you can make a mayo with consumer-acceptable consistency using only a third of a yolk, why waste it? But a home cook, who probably doesn't care about the expense of an extra egg, can exploit this. You can reduce your consumption of cholesterol (let's not get sidetracked into that discussion, please!), or (the big thing for me) you can make a thicker mayonnaise without overloading it with egg flavor. This gives you a neutral medium for say, veal stock, or soya, or almost anything. That's a nice trick to have in your bag. In any case, before you proceed, you might want to read the entire mayonnaise chapter in McGee's book. I won't get into a lot of paraphrasing here, but in short, your blender will probably overflow before you exhaust the emusifying capacity of either yolk starter. You'll need to divide the mixture along the way so that you can continue without consuming unreasonable amounts of oil. In other words, make two cups of sauce, then divide it back down to maybe a half-cup, and continue adding oil. And maybe a blender might not be the best method for making mayonnaise in a quantity greater than a cup or two -- once you've got a stable emulsion, a stand mixer at medium-low will probably do a better job. For each cup of oil, you need to add a tablespoon or two of water-based liquid -- remember that the emulsion is not between egg and oil, it's between water and oil. Also, McGee points out (admittedly without understanding why) that unrefined oils, e.g. EVOO, are not as mayo-stable as others. This might be one reason why we don't see "gourmet" mayo made with EVOO at the grocery store. If you're simply looking to find out what a practical limit for emulsification, a neutral, refined oil (or a blend of say, 75% safflower/25% EVOO) will suit your purposes better. And you'll need a lot of of it. So I'm interested in your experiment, but I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. Could you clarify?

Correct. In fact, under certain conditions, some strains of salmonella actually thrive at sub-freezing temperatures. I haven't tested them, but I'd bet you could use pasteurized eggs in combination with the freezing technique, and get the best of both worlds.

Again quoting from Harold McGee's The Curious Cook: He doesn't go into this further. Most of the emulsifying power in an egg yolk comes not from the "protein-emulsifiers" McGee mentions, but from the phospholipid lecithin. I deduce that freezing is suspected of adding to the already substantial emulsifying capacity of the yolk by loosening this previously untapped source. That's my guess, anyway.

Just for the record, you could have stirred in just about anything in reasonable quantity and it would have been fine. You could even have whisked in some melted beef fat. Mayonnaise is very stable.

OK, going from that direction, I can follow your modifications more easily, and see how you changed the character of the sauce. But . . . then I might have left the mustard in.

I though Elyse was suppose to bring pie.

My pleasure. I'm glad it worked out -- but I think you should have left the brown sugar in, maybe in a reduced amount, given that you subbed the sesame oil. Brown sugar has a great way of supporting other brown ingredients -- soya, sesame oil, beef, for example -- without contributing overt sweetness. Just my observation. Let me guess: your pantry is bereft of Asian ingedients because in New York you can get decent Chinese food just by dialing a phone?

It's quiet. Too quiet... In the distance, a dog barked.

See recipes above. The emulsifying power in a single egg yolk in its raw state is substantial. But it can be further enhanced by freezing the yolk first. A cup of mayonnaise can be made easily with as little as 1/4 of a frozen yolk, though it will be on the thin side; this is not because you use less yolk, but because, regardless of the amount of yolk used, the quantities of water (or water-based liquid, such as lemon juice or vinegar) and oil do not change. The repercussions from this are quite interesting, but perhaps better left for another thread, so I'll just put the basic quantities and technique here. If there's interest, I'll start another thread or find one to add it on to. I'm going to use whole yolks here, because the mayo base for the recipes above needs to be thick to accomodate an added 1/4 to 1/3 cup liquid. This should result in a good body for the finished sauce. And the addded liquid, if it's thoroughly whisked in, will stabilize the sauce. Using Frozen Yolks to Make Mayonnaise adapted from The Curious Cook by Harold McGee 1. For each cup of mayonnaise, freeze one of the following combinations: 1 whole yolk for four hours 1 whole yolk whisked with 1T lemon juice (not vinegar) for eight hours 1 whole yolk whisked with 1T water for 24 hours 2. Have ready: pinch salt 7/8 C oil, not more than 30% unrefined (e.g., EVOO) oil 1 - 2 T water or other water-based liquid, or a combination 3. Allow the yolk to thaw. 4. Put the yolk in a bowl and add salt. Beat lightly. 5. Add oil 1/4 t at a time. Once the emulsion thickens, you can add larger quantities. If the mayo gets really thick and looks like it's sweating oil, whisk in a few drops of water. 6. If, by the time you've incorporated all the oil, you still have more than a tablespoon of water left, whisk in enough additional water to make about 1-1/2 T total. Note: use of more than 30% unrefined oil will result in an unstable mayo -- you'll have just a few hours before it breaks. The second mayo recipe, above, calls for two cups of oil. A single frozen yolk will easily accomodate this, and make a good medium-weight mayonnaise.

Well, this will confuse the hell out of everybody, since I edited the recipe to eliminate the frozen yolks. I'll put it back, because it's a great technique, and I'd like it to get it in the archive (assuming it tastes good, of course). Which one are you making, FG? Or both?

Looky, here's another one. This is based on Prudhomme's Beef Mayonnise in Louisiana Kitchen. I've modified it to 1) account for your braising liquid; 2) bring out the spices a little more. Another Fat Guy's Beef Mayo 1/4 C defatted veal-sherry reduction (he specifies 2 C stock reduced to 1/4 C, so adjust accordingly) 2 T neutral oil 3 T finely minced onion 3 T finely minced celery 2 t minced garlic 1 bay leaf 1 t ground black pepper 1 t dry mustard 1/2 t cayenne 1/2 t chopped fresh thyme 1 t brown sugar 1 t salt 1 egg 2 C neutral oil 1. Heat 2 T oil over high heat until it shimmers. Saute the pepper, mustard and cayenne for about a minute, stirring constantly to prevent burning. (You do want the veggies to caramelize, though.) 2. Add the onions and celery and saute for another minute, then add the garlic, stirring, until the aroma blooms, about 20 seconds. 3. Reduce heat to medium low. Add the sugar and salt. Saute another two minutes. 4. Remove from heat and stir in the thyme. Allow to cool ten minutes, then remove the bay leaf. 5. Whiz the egg in a blender or food processor for about 30 seconds. Add the vegetable mixture and puree for about 15 seconds. 6. Add 2/3 of the oil in a steady stream, then add the stock in the same way. Finish with the rest of the oil; continue about 30 seconds after the oil is gone, scraping bowl down frequently. Note: there's not much acid in this recipe, so either adjust the seasonings with white wine/rice vinegar or lemon juice; or keep it under refrigeration until it's time to serve it, and put it back in the refrigerator it as soon as you're done.

If you don't mind another mayo, I've got a suggestion based on a recipe in Cooking the Nouvelle Cuisine in America. Given that you've used sherry in the braising liquid, it might go nicely: For approximately one cup: 1/4 C defatted veal-sherry reduction 1 T soy sauce 2 star anise, or 1/4 t five-spice powder 1 garlic clove, minced 1 T brown sugar 2 T rice wine vinegar 1 egg yolk pinch salt 1 t prepared mustard 3/4 C neutral vegetable oil, plus 3 T sesame oil dash pepper sauce 1. Combine the reduction, soy sauce, star anise, garlic, brown sugar, and vinegar in a small saucepan. Bring to a boil over high heat, then reduce heat and simmer for one minute. Remove from heat and allow to steep for another minute. Remove the star anise (if you're substituting five-spice powder, add it now). Set liquid aside. 2. Make a mayonnaise, starting with the egg yolk and salt to get an emulion going, then adding the mustard, then the combined oils in the usual manner. Add a few drops of the reserved liquid from time to time as you make the mayonnaise. 3. Whisk in the rest of reserved liquid and pepper sauce. Adjust seasonings. 4. Cover and refrigerate. Note: I'm not sure about the mustard, taste-wise. I left it in because it's in the original recipe, but I'm pretty sure it's only there to help the emulsion, which, IMO, doesn't need it. So if the mustard seems a little weird to you, too, leave it out and make the mayo in a food processor, using a whole egg to start, as in the next recipe.

I do. I have a bad habit of wiping my hands on my apron. If the apron isn't there... ...it goes right on your bare thighs. Exactly! That's what I'm sayin!

Oy. That's a whole 'nother thread.

I do. Actually, I sort of collect them. Gives me something appropriate to wear (in addtion to the food itself, of course), no matter what I'm cooking.