Dave the Cook

What did you do with the legs once the stock was done? Um, I threw 'em out. They probably still had a little flavor, but I feel like I get my money's worth. Most recently, I bought ten pounds of whole legs (thigh + drumstick) for $1.90. From these I get 10 cups of great stock. Not counting my time, but adding some for the onion (omit the wine as my peccadillo; I'm not convinced anymore that it makes a huge difference, and you could certainly leave it out and still have a superior product) this stock cost me about 2-1/2 cents per ounce. A can of commercial broth is about ten cents per ounce. Even at the going rate of 69 cents for drumsticks, this stock is less expensive than canned. At this rate, I can buy a fresh chicken for soup and still come out ahead. I'm cheap, but I'm not that cheap. And I don't want to pick through all the skin and bones for the meat. I am that lazy.

A tape is as good as on the way, Lily. I'll pack in a Chef's Tour and an Iron Chef as well. VHS or Beta?

Only Dave, only Dave. Should I be smiling or hanging my head?

Okay Stone, I'll admit Popeye's isn't bad, but "the best"? That's a real statement. After I wrote that, I realized that I can't remember the last time I had fried chicken that didn't come from Popeyes, KFC (blah) or Roy Rogers. So next weekend, leave the cover on the smoker and fry up some chicken instead. Start a real-time thread and we'll walk you through it -- just leave the Maggi in the cabinet. Dude, fried chicken is very fattening. Man, what was I thinking? Smoked butt and ribs are so much better for you. Edit: not to mention the beer.

Okay Stone, I'll admit Popeye's isn't bad, but "the best"? That's a real statement. After I wrote that, I realized that I can't remember the last time I had fried chicken that didn't come from Popeyes, KFC (blah) or Roy Rogers. So next weekend, leave the cover on the smoker and fry up some chicken instead. Start a real-time thread and we'll walk you through it -- just leave the Maggi in the cabinet.

Juuceman: this is a great topic -- "Best Impromptu Pizza" -- but it will not get noticed down here in a thread about take-out. It would be great if you'd start a new thread.

I stumbled over this show the other night. From the BBC America web site: One of the shows running this week follows Ed, an itinerant cook from Newcastle, as he tries to fulfill his dream of becoming a master chef. Two things stand in his way: he has only one month to do it, and he's being "helped" by the less-than-optimistic Gordon Ramsay. A fun, sometimes touching show, and a rare chance for Yanks to see Chef Ramsay in action. The episode airs Thursday, June 12 at 9:00 p.m.; and Friday, June 13 at 12:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m. (all times EDT).

OK, OK, I'll call you if someone comes through with the beef. (Thanks, tommy.)

Use vegetable shortening for pan frying -- solves the odor problem and gives you a crust almost as crisp and rich as lard -- better than any commonly available oil, anyway. Shortening is the most refined fat most people can buy. I disagree about the Dutch oven. A regular-height cast iron pan lets moisture evaporate better. But do get a spatter screen -- not so much for odor control as for easier clean-up.

My brother spent ten years commuting to Japan -- two weeks there, two weeks home. I introduced him to Iron Chef a couple of years ago. When the ingenue started giggling, all he could say was, "I don't know about the food, but they got that part right!"

If that's the predominant type of oven, I'd agree. Then again, if a take-out pizza place is willing to make that kind of effort, then they're more interested in good pizza than they are in getting it to your door in a certain number of minutes -- which means we're probably beyond the parameters of the originating post. Speaking of which, I'm going to try Haggis' method next time I have one brought in.

The advantage of cast iron is even heating and slow dissipation (i.e., it stays heated). I don't know how it compares to the usual material used for pizza ovens -- what is that stuff anyway? If you've got a pizza oven, you keep it heated all the time, so these are not issues, and you don't have to reinforce your foundation to support cast iron. Unless you want to do a calculation on fuel savings? Having said that, I think this way to handle pizza is a great idea. Edit: what Nick said, since he actually know what he's talking about. For instance, he knows it's called masonry.

I had no idea! Don't tell my beagle.

OK, I have to know: why blue?

I wanted to track down an Alton Brown item before I replied. I finally found it on page 50 of I'm Just Here For the Food. Rather than paraphrase, I think I can get away with an attributed quote: Now, he doesn't mention crust per se, but AB fans will queue up to testify to his affection for things crusty. Since reading this, I have refrained from oiling, just to see if he's right. I get everything else: color, quadrillage and release. But I don't get much of a crust (except on the grill marked areas, unless the steak has been treated with a marinade of some sort. And then, it's probably sugars in the marinade that are crusting, not sugars in the meat proteins. To further confuse things, I still do oil meat if it's going to be pan-roasted, to ensure good heat transfer between the meat and the pan surface. In these cases, I do get crustage. But I can't draw any conclusions. Two different applications, two different treatments. Finally, we have a theory that high smoke-point oils develop better crusts than their less temperate brethren. This seems counter-intuitive to me -- think about pan-fried chicken or frites, where low-smoke-point oils like shortening and lard promote crust formation better than highly refined oils. On the other hand, this is in association with large volumes of complex carbohydrates, not the relatively small (but obviously still significant) quantites of sugar bound up in protein. I couldn't find any theory that attempted to explain how smoke point might affect crust formation. The only possibility that occurs to me is that applied high-smoke-point fat acts as an insulator, allowing the surface protein to dehydrate more fully without overcooking it. A low-smoke fat would burn instead. And no fat at all would let the meat overcook. The outlines of an experiment seem pretty clear. We test for the difference in crust between oiled and unoiled (but salted) meat, then between different types of oil. Then we might need to test some oils against salted only. FInally, we would need to test grapeseed oil against another high-smoke-point oil, like safflower or avocado, to make sure there's not something particular in grapeseed oil (perhaps free fatty acid content, or mono/polyunsaturated balance) that creates the effect. I figure I need 24 each 1-1/2-inch thick strip sirloins to conduct the experiment. I'm willing to do the cooking and eating, if someone else will contribute the meat.

In my experience, wine is like everything else at Costco: it's not likely to be a lot more expensive than anywhere else, but neither is Costco a guarantee of the best price in town. SOmetimes it is, sometimes it isn't. In Atlanta anyway, Green's, Tower, Beverage Superstore and Cost Plus World Market pretty consistently beat Costco for price and selection. I admit to this bias, however: I am never in the market for $300 wine.

Sinclair, I'd be very surprised if this is your problem. The difference between fine and superfine is not all that great, and it's not codified; one processor's coarse grind can be another's superfine. Since you first cream and then melt the sugar in the course of baking, success is more dependent on good mixing than crystal size. But you ought to try it anyway, and let us know. Edited to add: more information about crystal size here.

I had the same first thought. But then I realized that popcorn doesn't have to get that hot -- all you need to do is heat the kernel enough to vaporize the water in the center of the kernel -- good old 212. The trick with popcorn is to keep it the exterieor from scorching before the interior gets hot enough. And since my own damn publisher won't bring it up, here's a link to my article on Teflon. Somewhere in the discussion thread, there's a link to the Dupont website that describes (from a consumer, not a technical perspective) most of the different methods for applying PTFE. The bottom line is really this, IMHO: only buy PTFE-coated pans that have been fabricated using technology licensed from Dupont. They still lead the pack in terms of technology and innovation. Otherwise, FG and slkinsey are right: buy cheap, and treat them almost as if they were disposable.

OK, now I'm hungry. Ooh, pan-fried chicken. Yeah! (Now go tell Jason.) Edited: for clarity

Its like Coke and Pepsi, Jason. Fink is deep frying. Sandy is pan frying. Totally different. Jon's right and Jason's wrong on this one. The biggest difference is evident in the crust that forms against the surface of the pan, something that isn't possible with deep frying. Of course, I'm not known for passing up either. Since pan frying takes 25 minutes (assuming the prep is already done), it's become a lost craft among restaurants -- it just takes too long.

Just for clarification: salting brings water-soluble proteins to the surface of the meat. These are the proteins partially responsible for Maillard reactions that make browned meat so yummy. Getting more of them to the surface enhances the reactions.

I'm with slkinsey, really good beef doesn't need much. But cheaper, tougher stuff gets a real boost from a soy bath (I believe there's something of a brining effect), a bit of brown sugar and some ground chiles, especially if grilling is involved. And welcome, Wolfert. Nice to have you here.

Archie: You have never lived until you've had a battered, deep-fried Peppermint Patty! Sorry, Lily. Next time I'll ask for the recipe before jumping to conclusions. (Better than a deep-fried Mars Bar? Really?)

This may be the classic roundup of all three food groups! Oh, the sin...garlic mashed potatoes and spaghetti and meatballs on the same plate! Welcome, Nikki! I'm not seein' anything fried here.