KennethT
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Posts posted by KennethT
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I also usually puree the whole can upon opening, and then I put in a tupperware type container and freeze... it defrosts really quickly and refreezes great...
I put a couple tablespoons of the puree in a bag with a trimmed pork tenderloin, vac and seal, and let marinate overnight or about 24 hours... then into a 58.3C waterbath for about an hour or so.... remove from bag and torch while basting with the bag juices.. serve with a gastrique...
Or sometimes we do buffalo burgers with ground buffalo - since I don't have an outdoor grill, I'll smoke them for about 10 min., then grill until rare... top with sliced avocado and chipotle puree...
Also agree with the above - chipotle aioli rocks....
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I agree - even 10-12 minutes in the smoker results in a very smoky end result... Recently I did a BBQ chicken... first I simmered skin on chicken parts in water for a few minutes to render some of the fat under the skin, then into an ice water bath to stop cooking.... dry then rub with Klink's dry rub... smoked over Hickory wood in my stovetop smoker for about 15 minutes, then into the bag and 60C water bath for about 1.5 hours - to make sure it was fully pasteurized... then it was hit with the propane torch until nice and crusty... came out juicy, delicious, and oh so smoky, with a good char on the outside....
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Our results: We thought the crust at UPN definitely had a more complex, almost sourdough like flavor, and was overall tastier than Keste... But, it's also almost twice the price, and, as of a few weeks ago, you could bring your own wine to Keste with no corkage fee...
There are some who might tell you that sourdough-like flavor has no place in pizza dough. In my comparing UPN to Keste (admittedly, not at the same time nor even in the same day), I think the ingredients that Keste is using to top its pies are just as high-quality as the ingredients being used at UPN. Without the attitude and at a more gently price point.
Well, there's definitely place for the argument that the sourdough quality doesn't belong in a pizza... with that being said, we thought it made for a more complex, interesting flavor - whether or not it "should" be there...
I'm not saying Keste's ingredients aren't first-rate... I was just saying that they were remarkably different to UPN - remarkably meaning noticeably - especially when you hvae them back to back.
I also didn't find the attitude that so many people complain about with UPN. In fact, we walked away saying how nice and pleasant everyone was. Nothing over the top, but the attitude never would have occurred to me if I hadn't heard about it prior to the visit. Keste's service and attitude is very nice also - maybe more so... the manager (owner?) is constantly walking around making sure everything is ok.. and chatting with patrons, especially the Italian ones...
In any case, I'm splitting hairs a bit - both make a fine pizza... my personal preference leans towards UPN... but overall, I would go back to Keste for the better atmosphere and pricing... hearing about the no byo is a little disappointing - especially since now there is no wine option whatsoever... I love corkage restaurants (even ones with their own wine list), but I don't know if I'd want to go to dinner with no option of having some wine. I may wait to go back there until they have their license...
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How does a Keste pizza compare -- stylistically, leaving preferences aside -- to one from Una Pizza Napoletana?
Not leaving preferences aside, which do you think is better?
I have a mild obsession with pizza napoletana, and Keste is looking like a must on my upcoming trip. Wondering if I should also re-visit UPN. For comparison's sake, of course.
A few weeks ago, my wife and I did a comparison between the two.... It started as a joke - about a month ago we went to Keste for the first time and we were very impressed.... a couple weeks later, we went to UPN.... at the time we were blown away by UPN - we thought it was on another level than Keste (not slighting Keste which is excellent).... so midway through our meal at UPN, we joked about going to Keste immediately following and have a margarita taste test.... so the more we joked about it, the more we liked the idea....
Our results: We thought the crust at UPN definitely had a more complex, almost sourdough like flavor, and was overall tastier than Keste... But, it's also almost twice the price, and, as of a few weeks ago, you could bring your own wine to Keste with no corkage fee... We decided that we enjoyed the UPN margarita pizza better than the Keste version, hands down.... I also enjoyed my filetti very much at UNP... but we also decided that we will still go to Keste because it's such a good value, and comparison aside, makes an excellent pizza. I think comparing the two is sort of like comparing diamonds - sure some are nicer than others, but at the end of the day, they're still both diamonds... and the prices - our meal at Keste with a toscana salad ($8), margarita ($12), salsiccia pizza ($18) and a bottle of sparkling water ($4) was $42 plus tax/tip... a bottle of Dolcetto we brought from home - probably about $15-18... so total about $70.... UPN (for two pizzas ($21 each), bottle of wine ($39) and a bottle of sparkling water ($8)) was about $100, cash only.
I don't know if I answered your question tupac.... All in all, to me UPN is all about the ingredients - awesome dough, cheese, tomatoes, and that's basically it... Keste's dough is good, but not as complex, the tomatoes are good (but seemed a bit sweet to me) and cheese is good... but all in all, thought UPN was a higher quality pie... but Keste has much more variety, plus they have salads and interesting looking appetizers... not to mention the corkage deal...
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I know that you can veal neck bones from Fresh Direct for like $2 per pound... I keep saying that I need to go to Ottomanelli to see what they charge, but haven't made it there... I'm not a regular there, but they know me by face... I'll be curious to hear what you found...
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Taking this thread back to cooking for a bit, has anyone experimented with SV mushrooms? slkinsey did some SV shiitakes (they were in a bag with chicken and scallions), but other than that I haven't been able to find much in the way of guidelines/recipes. For example, Under Pressure has not a single mushroom preparation sous-vide, as far as I can tell.
Is it just a waste of time? Perhaps proper browning of mushrooms is too integral to their flavour. Wild morels are coming up soon, and I don't want to waste any (assuming, of course, I manage to find any!).
I was experimenting with vegetables at 185 F. for an hour. On some, I felt the package until there was give. I think the carrots went 90 min. I did potatoes, carrots, broccoli, and whole mushrooms.
Frankly, I was not impressed with the results. EXCEPT for the mushrooms. They came out rich flavored and great. A lot of potential for various finishing techniques - or none.
The potatoes were cut in a 1/4" dice and tasted good, but compared to what versatility you can get with potato preparations, no big deal. Carrots were done, but not impressive. Broccoli yuch. I am very willing to hear results from others that might give more interesting veggies.
Stu
I experimented with asparagus last night... I got really nice thick ones that I peeled, seasoned then in the bag with a couple pats of butter... Into the bath at 150F (65.6C) for about 8 minutes (as per instructions from discussions MUCH earlier in this thread).. then shocked in ice water and kept refrigerated until ready to serve... reheated in 128F (53.3C) bath used for cooking lamb...
The results - my wife loved them... I also enjoyed them... they had the texture of being "cooked" but still had a crispness to them... if you like your asaparagus on the soft side, this may not be the way to go... they also had a really fresh taste - more so than with asparagus that I do normally...
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Bringing this topic back up - I have a question that was never asked/answered - and I can't find it in McGee either... once the fish has been cured, how long will it last in the refrigerator? Thanks!
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Every once in a while I'll do an orzo dish in the vain as yours, Chris... I sautee asparagus and artichokes separately... Then I'll make a simple sauce of olive oil, chili flakes, brunoise preserved lemon (preserved only in salt), lots of rough chopped garlic that has been browned in the oil, sliced shallots, capers (if I feel like it)... hit it with some white wine for acidity and a little lemon juice... At the very end, I'll sometimes throw in some mint chiffonade - goes great with the chilis!!
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My understanding of botulism was similar - that you need a long time in a zero oxygen enviroment for it to grow and produce toxins... the FDA shows in the food code how long you can keep pasteurized ROP products at different temperatures.... From what I understand, if you do cook-chill, you can keep stuff at refrigerator temps (34F) or lower for a max. of 30 days (according to 3-502-12D(2)(e)(i))
So, theoretically, you can cook your burger to 55C for a time long enough to pasteurize depending on thickness, and then chill them down and refrigerate for a month - then just take out and sear on the grill to bring back to temp whenever you're ready... If you want to cook at lower temp. (for a really rare burger), I don't see why you couldn't do it, just so long as your burger wasn't 4" thick so that it would sit in the danger zone for too long.... then eat right away - can't store in the refrig. since it's not pasteurized....
Am I reading this correctly? Someone please correct me if I'm misunderstanding this....
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I've actually been thinking about doing something similar, along the lines of the SV burgers.... someone PLEASE let me know if this is a little crazy, or just not practical...
Anyway, I've been thinking about doing a bolognese sauce and, separately, meatballs by SV at say 55 or 60C for long time (i.e. 24 hours, ,etc)... or what about either 67 or 83C for 8 hours or so?? I gather that a really good bolognese needs to simmer for a long time to get a really great mouthfeel.. so I figured why not do the same thing you'd do with tenderizing a chuck steak, but to ground meat?
Similarly with meatballs - I've had way too many meatballs made the conventional way where the meat was gray and really tight... either from simmering too hard, or not long enough... I figured, even if the connective tissue int eh meat is ground up, it's still there... if you cook it long enough to convert it to gelatin, wouldn't that make a melt-in-your-mouth product???
Any thoughts???
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Fascinating!!! What cut of meat did you use for the mince?
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If you're bringing things up to temperature in a water bath, then you can use the tables that nathanm supplied somewhere around page 7 of this thread, or use Douglas Baldwin's charts on his website... that will give you the proper times to get up to temp... Once you're at temp and you want to keep it there, I can't think of a reason the incubator couldn't be used....
One way to monitor internal temperature is using a hypodermic or needle probe attached to an external thermometer. Put a square of closed cell foam weatherstripping tape on the outside of your bag where you want to insert the probe. Insert the probe through the tape, bag and into the center of where you want to measure... the tape will keep the bag from losing its vacuum. Then leave the probe in as it comes up to temp.. I believe you'll have to leave the probe in until your cooking is finished becasue I believe that once you remove the probe, you'll lose yoru vacuum.. but I'm not sure about that... others here will know better...
The FDA considers the interior of whole intact beef muscle (like a prime rib roast) to be sterile and free from pathogens... So, if you blow torch the exterior sufficiently to kill all surface pathogens, you are safe to hold it at lower temperatures for longer periods of time...
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I'm a little concerned about your setup... not to say that it can't hold a consistent temperature - but that's the least of the concerns... Heat transfer in circulated water is 100X better than in still air.... Still air is a really bad conductor of heat - so while it may be a rock solid 130 degrees in the chamber, that heat is not getting into your meat very efficiently. I think the true way to test how well your setup works is to get a hypodermic probe thermocouple and insert it into the center of the meat with some weatherstripping closed cell foam tape...run the thermocouple to an external thermometer and watch the temperature of the center of the meat as you start from cold... You want to make sure it doesn't take more than 4 hours or so (that's the upper limit of time) to get from cold to target temperature, or at least out of the danger zone.. this time will vary with the thickness of your package/if there are bones, etc. - so you should do this a few times with varied items to make sure your setup is safe...
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The other day, my wife saw a van parked in our neighborhood... when she inquired, they gave her their card - it was "Mike & Son sharpening service"... it seems like they sharpen knives, scissors, or whatever needs sharpening...
I gather you can call them, they come to your apartment, and then they sharpen your knives in their van while you wait. In the van it seems like they have all kinds of motorized sharpening equipment and tools...
Has anyone heard of/used these guys? What were your thoughts?? I'm a little scared of letting someone unknown sharpen my babies... and while my hand sharpening is ok (I'm still debating getting an EdgePro) - I don't get to sharpen as often as I'd like...
Thanks!
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How did the shrimp and scallops come out at 59C for 2 hours?
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sorry should have mentioned I just checked the one on houston. Any sugeestions for korean/japanese places? I will stop by sunshine mart and .. the other one by there near coopers sq. tomorrow on my way to the union sq. whole foods.
I commonly see Maitake in the Whole Foods at Union Sq... they're prepackaged and are usually of decent quality. The same prepackaged ones are usually available at the Sunrise Mart in the East Village..
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I do flank steak at 131F for 24 hours every 3-4 weeks... comes out great every time...
I also second the idea that a little smoke goes a long way - I've done smoked duck breast - smoked for about 30 min. then into the 131 water bath for a while (past pasteurization times) then into the ice bath then refrig... sliced and served room temp, comes out really good... very nice smoke flavor, and perfectly cooked...
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Hi Chad - thanks so much for this guide!!! I'm a little confused by the statement above... I understand that if you look at the cross section of the blade from the handle to the tip, it forms the triangle you discuss, with the spine forming the widest point of the triangle, and the edge forming the tip of the triangle... but if you look from the top down, with the handle towards you and the spine on top, the blades are tapered so that it forms another triangle (two long sides - that is the length of the blade, and the short side that is the thickness of the blade at the bolster). So, while the point of the western knives may be technically in the middle of the width of the blade, the blade thins as you go from bolster to tip, so the point isn't really that thick - it's much thinner than the thickness of the blade at the same latitude at the bolster. Unless of course, we're talking about a stamped blade, in which case it is of uniform thickness.... but most quality western knives are not stamped blades, but forged ones that taper from bolster to tip...
A question I have with the Edge Pro is that the sharpening mechanism is fixed at one point so the sweep is circular - but a knife edge isn't circular - it's usually flat (or close to it) running from the bolster to about the middle of the blade, and then sweeps up to the tip... so I don't understand how you can maintain a consistent angle with a circular radius sharpening A) a straight edge or B) a circular edge with a different radius than that of the Edge Pro without constantly moving the knife back and forth and constantly adjusting the blade stop to the width required....
Help and thanks!!!!
Hey, Kenneth. You are correct. There is a taper from bolster to tip. The distal taper, as it is called, does keep the tip from being inordinately thick. Even with the distal taper, though, the tip is still thicker than the edge, at least on most German, French & American made knives. The other part of the problem, as you rightly note, is accommodating the arc of the blade as it sweeps toward the tip. You'll have to check with Ben Dale, inventor of the Edge Pro, for the detailed explanation, but because the blade is not fixed to the blade table -- i.e. you do, in fact, move it across the table -- you are sharpening with a series of arcs rather than one big one.
That's the problem with systems like the Lansky or Gatco. They're fine for short-bladed knives, but once you get over three inches or so the arc of the stone can't match the edge without repositioning the jig. With the Edge Pro you are playing connect the dots with a series of arcs. And because you don't (or shouldn't) swing the stone past the edges of the blade table, they are short arcs at that. You also rotate the knife on the table as you move from heel to tip, presenting a (mostly) straight section of edge to the stone. It's a compromise, but it's the best compromise I've found so far (aside from freehand sharpening, that is).
Hope this helps. If not, and if you still have questions, email or call Ben Dale at Edge Pro Inc. and report back here. Ben always takes time to answer questions. I'll be eager to hear what he has to say.
Take care,
Chad
Chad - thanks so much for clearing that up... I thought that that's how it would have to work - but whenever I looked at the video of the Edge Pro, it didn't seem that he was doing that - it just looked like he swept the stone over the knife as he held it in one spot on the table.. It makes perfect sense not to bring the stone past the left/right table edges - that way, the arc is so short, it's essentially straight, for all intents and purposes...
Thanks again!!
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And, yep, you've discovered one of the dirty secrets of knife sharpening. The tip of the knife is thicker than the main cutting edge. If you imagine a top view of your knife blade, the spine forms the widest part of a triangle. The sides taper down to the edge. And if the cutting edge were flat (as it is on some santokus, nakiris, and usubas) it would be of uniform thickness. However, the sweep of the belly on a western-style knife means that the tip, usually at the centerpoint of the blade width, is going to be ground from a thicker section of steel. To keep the aesthetics of the bevel nice and even, the grinder changes the angle slightly. So, yes, it is a little more obtuse. The way I work around that when I use an Edge Pro is to set the blade stop with the very tip of the knife positioned right on the corner of the blade table with just a little of the edge showing. That means the heel of the knife and the lower portion of the cutting edge stick out a little farther than they should, but the bevel width stays more even as it follows the sweep up to the tip. Give it a try and see what you think.
Hi Chad - thanks so much for this guide!!! I'm a little confused by the statement above... I understand that if you look at the cross section of the blade from the handle to the tip, it forms the triangle you discuss, with the spine forming the widest point of the triangle, and the edge forming the tip of the triangle... but if you look from the top down, with the handle towards you and the spine on top, the blades are tapered so that it forms another triangle (two long sides - that is the length of the blade, and the short side that is the thickness of the blade at the bolster). So, while the point of the western knives may be technically in the middle of the width of the blade, the blade thins as you go from bolster to tip, so the point isn't really that thick - it's much thinner than the thickness of the blade at the same latitude at the bolster. Unless of course, we're talking about a stamped blade, in which case it is of uniform thickness.... but most quality western knives are not stamped blades, but forged ones that taper from bolster to tip...
A question I have with the Edge Pro is that the sharpening mechanism is fixed at one point so the sweep is circular - but a knife edge isn't circular - it's usually flat (or close to it) running from the bolster to about the middle of the blade, and then sweeps up to the tip... so I don't understand how you can maintain a consistent angle with a circular radius sharpening A) a straight edge or B) a circular edge with a different radius than that of the Edge Pro without constantly moving the knife back and forth and constantly adjusting the blade stop to the width required....
Help and thanks!!!!
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That marrow in the osso bucco was a revelation... everything else in the dish was a waste of time, by comparison... I was thinking now of doing an "upscale" pho bo - where I have the pho broth, but clear like a consomme (I've done this before in the pressure cooker - works great), little ravioli filled with the cooked marrow (which take the place of the rice noodles and the marrow that gets usually integrated into the broth), and some raw prime rib eye sliced thin that is "cooked" in the broth at the last minute... finish with chives to act as the sliced raw onion/scallion component...
ETA: It's a great idea to have the butcher slice the marrow bones into 1" thick slices... I didn't think of that ..
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Has anyone done beef or veal bone marrow before? I did one a while ago by default when I did an osso bucco... the osso bucco was done at 82.2 for about 6 hours, I think... it was good, but the marrow stole the show...
Has anyone done just a marrow bone? If so, what temp/time and how did it come out? Any suggestions??
Thanks!
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I do a flank steak all the time this way.... comes out tender like a NY strip, but it's much cheaper.... I jaccard first, season with S&P, then bag and cook at 55C for 24 hours.... then take the bag out of the bath, let it cool a bit (10 min?), then take the steaks out of the bag, blot with a paper towel, then I dust with Wondra flour... a quick 15s sear in a hot pan with peanut oil makes them nice and brown...
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Question for eGulleters:
I want to buy a lobe of foie gras in NYC but the smallest ones I can find are about 1.5 lbs. So this is at minimum a $75 item. My fiancee and I plan to share a lovely Sauternes in an intimate setting with a perfectly seared piece of foie. Sounds great, doesn't it?
The question is, what do I do with the inevitable remaining 1.25 lbs of foie gras? Can it be frozen and thawed for future use? Do I have to invite a bunch of friends over for a next day foie gras party? Sell it on craigslist?
Thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks everyone and thanks eGullet
TK
You can also buy slices from Hudson Valley Foie Gras... they come as 4, 1 ounce slices vacuum packed on a card... I get this in Manhattan from Ottomanelli on Bleecker St. who routinely has them in stock - I think the card is $20, which, ounce for ounce isn't as good of a value as a whole lobe, but minimizes waste if you're only going to use a small amount - I've heard freezing is ok, but I gather the texture gets altered slightly... Also, I've had experience with Citarella - you can get a half lobe there rather than a whole lobe, and the price is the same per pound as the whole lobe.
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You can try to fold back the top ofthe bag while filling - sort of like what you do when filling a piping bag.... then unfold and seal...
Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 5)
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What have you found to be the best temps for them?