PassionateChefsDie

We all know the supposed high we get from Chocolate, what other foods do people believe have a similar or reverse affect(Not diet related) be them spices, herbs or main ingredients? I believe there's a load of food stuffs that people say change our moods what do people think they are and the moods they instigate! If you know the science why, all the better. Stef

I mentioned that one of the first cook books to do this was Raymond Blanc he used a direct and deliberate science to apply it to Traditional French. As I believe that GR does, the difference is the choice of ingredient composistion not the application of science. To say that someone with 3 stars isn't avant garde surely he's at the forefront as is Phillip Howard who probably has more right to use the term. All good chefs use the science it's just the application of it. When I see the term Molecular Gastronomy I think of getting a microscope and a plate. I honestly believe we probably need a new term here. As for good mash I sure Raymond did this in his book, might be wrong. Every chef with Mcgee could tell you the science, even Nico mentions the influence of this book. P.S. Ought to add not a big fan of MG though what L'enclume is doing has woken me up, I've found a restaurant I WANT to eat at.

From my understanding about retarding dough this is to develop flavour reduce the taste of the yeast. It has no affect on the total prove or blow in the oven in comparison to a dough that hasn't(It also makes a wet dough easier to handle). For sour dough you're retarding to get flavour as my mother has plenty of flavour I've stopped retarding. I may be wrong, but I see no difference except flavour between the doughs. I find using dried yeast I can achieve the same affect by using less yeast and a longer prove on the top. I was lead to believe that 1oz of fresh yeast will blow 10ibs of flour given enough time. As you're normally putting a piece of old dough into your new batch this is what your developing(I believe the term is levian). As for retarding on a commercial scale would you want to get in at midnight to start baking when all you had to do was make the dough earlier, could you imagine the fridge space you'd need to bake it straight from the fridge.

Me too thats why I asked for clarification!

A prime example why Nico gave his prospecting customers 10p and sent them across the road even though he was empty! It's the whole experience not just food on the table. Should they keep doing this they wont survive long, over here we say a a quick penny or a slow pound in the quiet season it's the slow pounds that keep you alive.

So are you sort of agreeing with Dirk that this is not a concept as such, just an application of science? Or have I missed the point are you saying that MG is used all the time but is a concept when it's applied to an ingredient to change it i.e. cauliflower cous cous? Surely MG is applied from the moment we start preparation whether its knowingly done or not, my example earlier about copper bowls comes to mind. I appreciate that some of these Avant garde Chefs are using these techniques but surely I could find chefs who are avant garde yet dont use MG as clearly.

Vengroff- I saw your post earlier. In fact that thread got me started on Pain a l'ancienne. The pictures are great. I followed the same technique and my dough was as wet or wetter, but I still didn't get the holes you did. I'm wondering if when I turn the dough out of the bowl if I am degassing too much. Not sure of any other way to go about it though. I guess I might try going a little wetter. I also think I need to make my refrigerator colder because the dough doubles overnight in the fridge which I think is a little too fast. ← I might help though for a round loaf, I found my plastic bowl with oil smeared around i works. But before dropping the dough in just gently smear a little more onto the dough off your hands, drop it into bowl make sure the dough is moving. Then prove when you scared of proving it any more make sure your dough is loose by rolling the bowl, if it's leaving the sides and sliding fine, now invert and drop onto your hot surface. Jackal10 has helped me loads and is a source of knowledge I agree that you will get a better spring straight from the fridge the same principle as for puff pastry. So the fact its proving wont affect it, but dragging it out of a container will have a bad affect, I changed bowls and have been mastering sour dough, I would try this before trying to shape and move dough just drop it straight out.

Aren't folk strange people you see I'm less offended by this! If I miss my dentist appointment he'll charge me as a booking is a contract, a no show is a breach of contract. We are all a mixed up bunch, but yes I agree does sound like a veiled reminder.

No I'm saying that perhaps he's a passionate chef that understands that his staff will give a better experience if they deal with 8 people every 15mins rather than 16 every 30 mins for example. ← right...so isn't this a way of making sure they come at the appointed time, not 15 minutes before or 15 minutes after, creating the rushed seating at one of the times? What am I missing here? ← I was replying to the collapse of profits not sure we're missing anything, but I suppose you could say if too many people have a bad experience of course it will affect profits. I was just trying to give an example as to why an establishment may be uptight about time(Though I do think its a bad way for an establishment to leave you after booking). As in "Do you expect to show up on time" I'd probably of replied I dont know! Unless it was some where I wanted to go. I dont know the establishment in question though. I just used a chef who had high values regarding the dining experience as an example. Edited to add So yes I think we agree, it might of been the use of veiled that got me lost for a posting! Also being a chef I forget sometimes it comes down to profit I just want to give my customers the best experience possible, I appreciate that I may be part of someones b-day, engagement etc...

Found this thread starts with the recipe your talking about Book title thread

No I'm saying that perhaps he's a passionate chef that understands that his staff will give a better experience if they deal with 8 people every 15mins rather than 16 every 30 mins for example. The service will be less rushed the kitchen wont be pushed they will have the time to create the experience and give the attention to detail that the customer has come to expect! I wouldn't expect this kind of attitude of my local turn them around, relay 3 times restaurant, I am making the presumption that the restaurant is one of reputation has one sitting. Nico wouldnt cook a steak beyond medium rare as his opinion is that any further and it wasn't at it's best, he used the best ingredients and felt they deserved the respect. If I remember rightly one guy sent it back 3 times to get the same steak back, he'd been told clearly that this was how it came not over cooked! Nico did have 3 michelin stars so perhaps he had more clout. Stef

I'm curious has no one heard of Nico Ladenis, I've dragged the book out and now will quote "A good restaurant will not be good for long if 36 or 40 people all want to arrive at 8:30, all want to sit down at 8:50, and all want their starter at 9:00. It will not remain a good restaurant for long if for every table of two arrives as a table for four; these people would not get into many theatres with two tickets....." Prior to this he mentions about being a good business man and filling the restaurant, no empty seats. He then continues after this to mention about a party of 6 first two 10 min early, next two 25 mins late saying they'd only be 5, and the final member turning up 40 mins late, this table then complained because of his rudeness, yet they couldn't see how they messed him around. He was one of the best in the UK at the time, but I've also heard another story where a customer came to the reception and tried to walk in, he gave them 10p and told them to make a booking (From across the road)! I'm not justifying the response you got on the phone(That just sounds rude, unless he was late last time.) but if tables are in demand should a chef not try to get a service that flows smoothly(Espeicially if it is a food experince and not just grub, surely he's just trying to give his customers the best experience possible even on a busy night)? i.e 2 tables in every 15 mins rather than 4 in 30 mins all at the same time. With fine food there's a fine profit margin, the tables need to be full and every customer needs to go away feeling like they've had an experience, not just a meal.

Are you getting it wet enough it should stick to your hand but come away cleanish, I've sent many a commis to get the dough out of the bowl and as it does have a high water content, there's a knack to handling it. The commis normally end up with dough upto there arm pits, yet to see some one who's use to handling wet dough they just pick it up and drop it into there proving bowl. As for your specific recipe sorry cant help but if you're after big holes it will need to be a wet dough! Also blown, possibly only one prove or certainly not a heavy knock down your not trying to even out the establishing holes for this affect. Ciabbata is proved once on a bench and dropped onto a hot tray the dough for this is very wet almost liquid just holding it's shape. Edited to add All flour has different hydration qualities, your's might need more water, proffesional bakers have spec sheets on flour so they know how much water a flour can take. Wouldn't be surprised if weather affect this as well.

Hasn't Philip Howard got a degree in this? Perhaps Andy can pipe in here and he hasn't taken this route just applies it with out making it a concept. But back to the need to know whats going on when cooking, chefs have been using copper bowls for years before they knew the science that caused it to work. The first book I really remember was Raymond Blanc talking about the science of cookery in application. I think we need a new thread this seems to have some depth leaving the subject of London restaurants. We stopped at Sketch and a few others.

I got a little book Called La Cuisine et L'Amour written in 1929, it a little battered(Like my heart) It got thrown in when I bought The Great Chefs of France

Do you reckon you could live on ganache for the rest off your life then. 3's just not enough! I got stuck I nearly said butter, then olive oil finally going with cheese, I love Valrhona chocolate but stopped because honestly given a choice most times my savoury tooth wins with cheese but then...!

I would totally agree and Victorinox are so easy to sharpen. Back to global as the steel is sooooooo hard if you let them go blunt good luck in getting them sharp again, they need keeping sharp and they're a brilliant knife but when you let them get blunt it's hell trying to put an edge back on get them to a knife sharpener and keep them sharp.

Smoked Bacon I just eventually crave a Bacon sandwhich eventually. I can go with out all meat and then....! Bread freshly cooked be it sourdough or even a normal loaf but it's got to be freshly baked. It's got to be cheese, nearly said Roquefort but that needs sweet digestives for me so just cheese in any form. Edited to add Christ no coffee thats a chefs blood! 3's just not enough

As you seem to be extremely experienced have you tried just using a ciabatta recipe drizzled with a good oil and prodded and baked in a flat pan. I've seen acceptable results using this and the dough seems to be the same.

I just finished a night with one of the guys sorting some of the food for The Taste of London. We just did a function for 600 if the standard is upto what we sent tonight, I dont think anyone should be to dissapointed(One off the main guys been on the phone all day sorting stuff, what a logistic nightmare, he's in Manchester). But they seem to do this day in day out, I ate several bits we sent and had I paid for it I'd of been happy as long as it wasn't overpriced. Not really sure for who and as I dont know I'm not going to say who I thought it was, it a big umbrella.

Generally, yes, I think it is a silly and flawed philosophy. And those people who eat only windfallen fruit? Fine, whatever, knock yourselves out. But don't even get me started on the vegans who raise their children on a vegan diet. And, for that matter, the vegans who put their pets on a vegan diet. Now that really upsets me. Provided I don't have to travel long-term with a vegan and/or cook for one on a regular basis, the only thing that really disturbs me is the blatant and absurd amount of self-deception that occurs in so many vegan kitchens. Living in denial is silly, sure. The vegans I know who live on processed foods made of isolated soy proteins and smoothies made with frozen fruit are going nowhere with the health argument, as far as I'm concerned. I love animals. I live with some. I eat other animals, with gratitude. Somehow, I have managed to convince myself that I am less hypocritical than a vegetarian wearing a leather jacket. But uninformed vegans who abstain from animal products due to ethical priniciples have a responsibility to be consistent and knowledgeable about their lifestyle. I like to know, for instance, where my chickens come from and how they were raised. So, maybe start by doing some research to make sure it's the cows who are benefitting from their statement, and not, well, someone awful. And scary. I have a hard time believing the folks who claim that they do it because they feel better on a vegan diet. Show me a veteran of veganism with good skin and hair, and I'll start believing. Vegetarians are an entirely different species, methinks. I am more forgiving when it comes to them. ← Most have a problem obtaining vitimain B12 in there diet it's hard work eating the right amount of yeast and vegetable extract to boost this, which then has a knock on affect on there Iron intake. What are these teeth in the front off my mouth for, why dont I have two stomachs! Most of us probably eat too much meat, but we are carnivores are bodies dont lie! Edited to add I was bought up a vegetarian my brother still is though not for principles but purely because he doesn't like the taste or texture. It's brilliant to see him go at a principled vegetarian, they dont know how to take him. I'm against what I call styrofoam carnivores, people that think meat comes in a packet with cling film and couldn't kill it but eat it.

I've mentioned this before some where else but I have to say that I always find a Chocolate Marquise with raspberries, just wins those women over who are Chocolate lovers over. I've prepared it many times as a dish to take some where because it's easy to do and has such astounding results I just get bored with it(It never goes out of date though). I did win one over with a Lamb fillet in a chilled Gazpachio sauce(Why didn't I marry that one?)

Off course you'll get passable results! It may not be as crisp or shiny as proper tempered chocolate, but as mentioned I've only really done this with quality couverture! This really only counts, when your using quality chocolate, the aim is to get an amalgamation of all the fats can't remember how many but it's a fair few all melting and setting at different temps! The easiest thing I can say is that on melted chocolate there's what looks like an oil puddle, when this has gone you know you've got it cracked. It took me months before I got it cracked with pure Valrhona(Though it's easier if you mix it with callebaut) this seems to be one of the hardest to temper. But what your doing is melting the highest temperature fat and then mixing until it's amalgamated with the lowest. If your using any form of real chocolate for dipping I would start trying, not whole hearted but just stirring and geting use to the feel of proper tempered chocolate it slightly thickens as well as losing the oil puddle sheen. You see many methods of adding unmelted to melted, this is a good way to start but you can get just as good results by stirring it down to the cooler temperature without adding any additional, it's more a feel thing when you've done it enough times. Just dont heat it to hot when it cools to far for dipping you'll undo your good work. Edit to add As for tempering temps not sure but think it's 50'c for Dark, 45'c for Milk and 40'c for white. Its been a while since I looked at bar of couverture(I hate pastry, to many petit fours and chocolates for my liking), it's normally on the side.

I've heard about this before I still dont believe that it can be done, I heard about from a chef who provided the mangoes, he tried and never could replicate this, he reckoned it only worked with certain varietys!(Whenever I've tried I just end up with mango puree) Another way is to cut wedges out, two cuts opposite angles and pop the wedge out then just run the knife next to the skin to remove it, perfect wedges and the sweeteness next to the skin with the mango not the skin.

Think all's been mentioned here I'm with everyone else on the parchment bag, I found that as I'm not very good at this(And have lousy hand writing!) when I did need to do this, I covered my marble slab in try outs before eventually moving to the proper one(If I couldn't find anyone else to do it). My only advice is to remember to go with the flow, if I fought it, the writing was blobby and not crisp, I found it was a lot easier if I just got on with it, letting the chocolate almost flow not really squeezing. And stopping is hard, far easier to keep it running either running of the edge or doing joined up. I've only done this with Valhrona and found tempering was just as important, many a time if I had missed this slightly, the tip would clog and need clearing.