PassionateChefsDie

Surprised no one mentioned Amedei UK Supplier with info I'm afraid But this is replacing Valhrona as the top Chocolate, there's definetly a premium price. As for a Canadian or American Supplier I would of thought there would be an Italian Importer bringing it in. As it is the top Chocolate as for a relative price to Cluizel and Taste they are two completly different products. As for my Taste I've got to say I LOVE Valhrona Apamakia but I wouldn't cook with it a Fine Coffee, A Fine Armgnac piece by piece alternating between the 3, and I'm in Heaven. Yet on speaking to guys from the above Link they would recommend either Amedei or Cluizel believe there favourite is Cluizel, and these guys know there stuff its a passion grown into a business.

I don't believe that MCD will ever get back to days of glory it had when the clown attracted childrens parents to it's establishments. I believe the emphasis on obesisty on this side Atlantic and your side by both goverments is slipping into the main stream now and has been for several years, which has affected there consumer base. I believe they need to down turn there financial model as they will never return to there days of glory. Whether they could ever replicate the MCD phenomena of my Childhood I dont believe they can. They where the exception to the rule not the rule can we name another brand any where near the scale of theres, maybe a few Pizza Chains, yet even these dont get close to the sucess of MCD in the 80's/90's. Will Subway get to this point? I honestly wouldn't like to say. But I remember the day when you walked into a fast food joint and the counter was so deep you wondered what was fast about it. I would say its a general down turn in the consumer base rather not that they've lost consumers to competitors. I believe that to a certain extent this is happening right across the catering industry as for why, maybe it's the associated food scares, maybe it's lack of Tourism due to the unrest in the world, who can honestly say. Perhaps it's simply people have a more transparent view of the costing of food stuffs when you go in and spend £5 for something that cost little over £1(I know about Overheads but does the consumer care?) to buy from the supermarket. For the price of MCD for 2 from a supermarket you could probably feed 10. Does quality really come into there consumer base it was place to host a party for 30 children and come back with change from £150. Edited to Add Recently its been pointed out to me that with the combined overheads the nearly 1/5 of every £1 taken given to the goverment, it's intervention from the Goverment we need for this trade. Food costs maybe getting less as it becomes a world market yet labour and overheads keep rising. I'm afraid its only so far the consumer will dip into there pocket.

I'm intrigued I've found a reference to the original spelling Mantee not Manti Which seems to describe a steamed dumpling from Uzbekistan, so how come the spelling is this a spelling mistake? As for the dish described its always spelt Manti, which brings references to Turkish/Armenian. I'm now completly lost now, Afghan's call it Mantu can any one clarify the original spelling. Is Mantee a steamed dumpling, does anyone know the origins of the word or dish. All 3 cuisines seem to make it the same yet its only Uzbekistan that spell it the same yet it seems to describes a different dish!

Dont they realise that the people that buy there magazine firstly probably know who there peers are secondly have probably visited there establishments. As a chef I certainly dont buy trade magazines to read about my peers. I wrote an article regarding the power of peers for here, yet I dont think it will see the light of day, I pointed out its our peers that dictate who the next generation of peers will be. And yet they still contradict each other 2 peers having contrasting and opposing views. I've worked with 2 chefs and both should of acquired Michelin stars one place being told that if he had 1/3 increase in staff FOH & BOH, or that he was a bistro down the road he'd of got it. The second one was a 2 man team(Never get that one) where I saw 1 food inspector from another guide not like it. Yet as the Big Wig knew it he came back and reviewed it. This highlighted the power of media and an inspectors personal taste more than anything else, just because he was more traditional than the rest, the first inspector would of down graded him.

I'm glad you're so sure of what a magazine is supposed to be. Still, when the publishers launched Restaurant Magazine they took certain editorial decisions that were not based on circulation figures, but on ideas of what their magazine should be like. Just because their concept found a readership doesn't mean that their formula must remain immutable for all time if ways to improve are encountered. Anyway, I don't think that RM would lose anything by building up the role of F.O.H., if anything, they stand to gain readers. My own opinion is that RM could be much more influential if they so desired, by concentrating on new talent, and not dedicating so much space to celebrities who don't actually cook anything; a bit more king-making and a bit less king-fellating. The latter being best left to the nationals who do it so much better. ← Well Said I've compared this industry more to the Music than any other. There's plenty of good chefs out there but without the right PR campaign or finance to release press releases every week, will go un-heard.

Dundee Cake normally has whole almonds and is more like a dark heavy sponge, it also has a lot of batter to fruit you could eat a cherry out of a slice and barely have any fruit with it(Normally a high ratio of sultanas as well). In the sense of fruitcake I'd not even desribe it as one its more of a afternoon tea cake not one heavily loaded with fruit for keeping. I would of defintely expected to see the normal ratio of baking powder i.e 3tsp to 8oz of flour as in a normal sponge its a lot lighter than any of the other fruitcakes. I'm pretty sure the true texture of Dundee Cake wouldn't even take a soaking of alcohol it would fall apart. This is also quite domed when it's been baked about 2 inches higher in the middle than the sides. As you said its been adapted I reckon should you need to make another one with the wealth of knowledge you've been picking up the next one will be easier to adapt a recipe you've seen. As for the source they've used, anyone that uses cook books a lot knows some work some don't. With out seeing the original recipe I wouldn't like to guess, from browsing this forum I already know there's major differences with our all purpose flour and yours I believe that to come up with something similar you need to mix your AP with Pastry. I certainly wouldn't of adapted Dundee Cake for a fruitcake maybe a sponge cake for a Dundee Cake. As mentioned I'm not really a specialist I've done 18months pastry but do love fruitcake and that includes Dundee Cake if where calling it a fruitcake. Edited for Diva What no MARZIPAN !

Being a big fan of Fruitcake its a difficult one to say but from your point about Alcohol "Burn" in the original posting I'd stop earlier for that reason unless you want the taste, thats going to be personal. As for good and bad and regarding texture its seems there's a multitude of ways, with the amount of eggs you've got I'd expect it to have less of a crumb and more of a bite. If you just don't like fruitcake its a hard one I love all things like this, mince pies, xmas pudding etc I personally wouldn't like a recipe with that many eggs in. 6 eggs seems a lot for less than a 1Ib of dried goods, the fruit doesn't benefit from the eggs, not sure why the baking powder(There's barely any batter covering the fruit), from that recipe it looks like an old fashioned dense cake and will give a bounce more like xmas pudding. Less eggs will give a crumblier cake, maturing will also effect the crumb. Hopefully RedSugar will way in before you need to know. Over the years I've had fruitcake with a bounce when you bite into it, some that crumble as you try to eat them, some in between which is my preference! Rarely could you taste the alcohol burn, as for taste as long as it hasn't got a liquorice back note that was my only pet peeve. I'm just a marzipan freak I'd chase any of the wedding cake icing, marzipan or cake what ever part you didn't like. Hope this helps Stef Edited to add And the 3rd kind I'd probably argue the original not macerated at all, with a bit of stout in the batter! Then soaked for a month etc..

It wasn't far off it think it was £16/£18 I know the main course was about £4 more all I really remember is with the main course and wine think it was a Premier Cru Chablis total bill was £80. Didn't get to sweet nothing jumped out and I was on the way through London. I stopped concerning myself with how much it cost, just took the enjoyment away if I couldn't afford what ever I want, I dont go. This was the meal that taught me that, there's places to watch your pennies and others not to care. As for yours I wish not even a comparison! Stef(A Truffle Fan)

The New Sothebys Wine Encyclopedia http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/078...5/egulletcom-20 http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...5/egulletcom-20 this thread might help as well http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=66483&hl= Hope this helps Stef

We encountered this in our wine class but I couldn't remember the teacher's comments when I noted the garlic/onion thing going on yesterday. I knew it was something different - mercaptans, yes! Yesterday's wine did not smell of rotten egg or burnt matches. ← To quote my source Onion or Garlic A serious wine making fault created when ethyl alcohol reacts with Hydrogen sulphide, another wine fault to form a foul smelling compound called ethylmercaptan. Not a specialist but found my book very useful over the years! Think that suggests a no buy! From reading more mercaptan with various beginings can vary in smell from Cabbage/Cauliflower, quite possibly Manure, Burnt Rubber, leather and finally Onion/Garlic. Just thought it would help us less knowledgable. Just sharing as I learn. Stef

I'd rather eat The White Truffle Spaghetti that Philip Howard makes! Now I can tell you that was worth it but then he didn't serve it in 6 portions just the 1! I can taste it as I write this followed by a Mixed Fish Grill with basil and Cous-Cous(Mmmm!) now I'm going back a bit!

Over the years I've had so many starting life as a vegetarian gave a wonderful amount of surprises, slowly weaning my self away from vegetarian food with burgers and sausages. I'll never forget being around a freinds for dinner, taking what was being offered as it was put down in front of me the gasp and but your vegetarian, going in boldly how could Lamb be different to burgers! Still have a soft spot for lamb. Still dealing with the flesh aversion it was mainly a texture thing, that lamb was well done, but slowly my hand kept reaching into the oven eating the chops as they cooked. Until one day it came out just a little bit to pink oh for that day it rescued me from an aversion to pink meat for ever more. Then back to oysters I avoided them for years mainly because of my flesh aversion, smoked salmon, and smoked raw ham use to make me gag. Then one day bravely venturing where I'd never been I tried one after discovering the delights of smoked salmon and ham, still can't eat them raw. But one day using the fantastic cold water natives up the chef lightly cooked them in garlic butter what a delight, I've never looked back. The same chef cured my aversion to brussels seem to be reucurring theme these, he cooked them with chestnuts and bacon and still crunchy. Also oily fish mackerel I thought this was nasty until the day it came in so fresh had you put it in water I reckon it would of come back to life, cooked simply with a little tomato, cant really remember exactly how.

Would be interested to know who did come up with it originally if any one knows, soz only just read thread thats why I'm replying now! I was cooking it end 2002/03 does anyone know of it earlier? ← Don't know when it was published but looked like a few years ago. ← 2003 so I'm guessing the inspiration for the dish we use to cook, not a dish I'd of associated to Edelmann though! Thanks offcentre!

Here in the UK the Main stay of most chefs during training are: Practical Cookery and The Theory of Cookery by Ceserani & Kinton(Also seen another similar book, can't remember the title) A Manual of Food Hygiene and Nutrition a gov book. Between these 3 books most is covered believe the latest version of Pratical Cookery has the science and the basics covered. Dealt with the science less when I was at college it was more about nutrition and hygiene. In 2 years we can't expect people to grasp the science behind dishes, but we can stop them poisoning people and get them creating a semi-balanced dish. It took me about 7 years to understand the relationship that eggs, flour, sugar and butter have. Still facinates me, 4 ingredients yet a multitude of textures and dishes! When I did my course before NVQ we had the Le Repertoire de La Cuisine not sure they use this any more, seem to teach a multitude of cuisnes rather than 1 good basic one(My own gripe with NVQ but thats a thread on its own.) For the next level if specialising in Larder it use to be the Larder Chef by Leto I'd imagine its the same not seen anything like it. As for pastry not sure but reckon its The Proffesional Pastry chef by Friberg. Over the years the Rep has become the main stay, mainly to correct the know it all chefs, prefer the Herrings as it has more countries cuisines. But the true star has to be the Larrouse nearly always anwsers that ? On a final note have to say you can have all the books in the world yet if you dont understand finesse or can't taste it doesn't matter what books you have or don't have, we have to taste things we dont like, to make them perfect.

I thought you marinated the whole cake which makes more sense to me as the alcohol would preserve the cake but once the alcohol is cooked out would it have any effect at all? I have an xmas pudding thats is matured for several months raw thats then cooked! As for the reasoning behind this I can only guess its to almagamate the flavours or to reduce the alcohol content and soften the fruit. Going on softening the fruit I can only guess that this is the reasoning for marinading the fruit. As for effect is there any difference between fruit thats been steeped for 2 days and fruit thats been steeped for 4 days! Sounds like an experiment a whole cake marinaded, fruit for several days and finally fruit for longer still. But I honestly thought you matured the whole cake in alcohol, the longer time marinading may reduce the alcohol content but not significatly enough that you'd notice in the finished article I wouldn't of thought. To go back to your statement too wet, this would be my guess as the length of time matured would effect the finally moisture content. I reckon the recipes aren't like for like and have varying amounts of liquid, failing that it could be simply that one cook prefers a wetter cake.

How about selling a £100 pizza for a bit of PR! Then maybe you can sell your book.

Hi All Worked with one chef who knew what to do with these, these are fantastic clams. Brilliant if you know what to do with these the first thing is to cook them right to get them out of the shells, make sure there under just set(We tried cooking them for ever and they just get tougher and tougher. We cooked some for about 2 hours to see if they would get any more tender to no joy!) Once there out we use to flash them through a pan with garlic butter, a little vermouth, finishing with cream, back into there shells and a sprinkle of parmesan finished under the grill. A nice dice of tomato plays well with the flavours and a few fried breadcrumbs added texture. I've never heard of anyone using these we use to have trouble getting them last time he tried to order them whilst I was working for him I think I remember we were told we could only order a minimum of plus 10 kilo, being a small restaurant of 40 covers we stopped using them.

I think this has gone a little to far, I just like you believe in protecting intellectual property. I'm also am interested in finding out when the phrase was coined and the meaning of Parmesan? As this seems extremely relavent. As I pointed out it will have an effect on Italian exports, how many of us distinguish between Parmigiano-Reggiano and Parmesan speaking for myself I certainly dont. As for Vichy I hold my hands up I must of fell asleep during that lesson. I knew of it because of Vichy Carrots, I had to get the Atlas you nearly convinced me it was American. As for the Chinese market I believe you're right but before that happens they're going to have to honour the rest of the worlds copyright laws can't see that happening in the next 20 years. Though how can you be protecting intellectual rights when the majority of the originators are dead. This is a law thats abused both ways in most countrys simply for monetary reasons not intellectual rights. Many copies aren't trying to imitate just produce cheaper, to which you and I dont have a problem with, its the blurring of lines and trying to sell as the said article. In Sweden there copyright laws leave the defence to prove loss of business which makes far more sense than the ones we've got over here. A fine example was a little Jewellers I knew called Harrods, sign completly different, not a single piece of marketing material that even looked remotely like it, just someones surname and I'm sure you can guess the rest. As we both agree that discerning taste buds will notice the difference. I really dont care first I'm not an American consumer, secondly I believe that even if you sold it as Parmigiano-Reggiano I'd still taste the difference. It was simply an outside perspective from an EU point of view, I gain nothing and lose nothing by the dialogue we've had. I really do stand by Business is Business and I'm not really have a go. I know and understand that someone could pick on our laws for looking after our own commercial interests. This simply started by my assertion that in the EU as far as I'm aware they're the same cheese, it affects the American consumer and Italian exporters more than it affects me. I don't mean to offend here but your not really known for your culinary exports(Not saying you haven't got any), and certainly not place specific products, beyond Monterary Jack I myself would of struggled to name place specific food stuff. JD of course, I certainly could of mentioned far more wines, I believe that several of you top wines are giving the competition a run for its money. I was more interested to see that you already have a less matured cheese I have also come across the fact that Grana Padana and Parmigiano-Reggiano(Is this matured for less time, for your country?) are known as Parmesan. So this already throws a spanner in the works my source implies both are. You and I would probably disagree on the latter as its a far different cheese, I never use to eat Grana Padana(Ok on my pasta) it just didn't have the same depth as the other, where you to sell it to me as parmesan I'd give it back. Seeming as it implies it's two cheeses guessing you'd have a problem trying to own it as term for a single cheese, I hope someone else can enlighten us! Sounds like a headache for a legal team that couldn't ever be won as it doesnt distinguish between the two cheeses probably is a term for a hard cheese from the Parma region. Please don't take any offence these weren't opinions but more an outside perspective. As mentioned I can't really comment about any countries legal system as someone said to me years ago 9/10ths of law are about ownership.

As mentioned above this is done by roasting, chicken wings(And use to come free off the butcher in the trade) make a good one just a little bit cloudy the knack is to caremelize not burn the bones and veg. If whilst roasting them they are going too quickly keep them turning and add a good glug of water as you dont want to impart any bitterness. For what ever amount of bones you want about third Mirepoix(For the 1's that don't know, Carrots, Leeks, Celery and Onions) if its brown stock you can use the onions with the skin as they will impart a little colour and no flavour. Keep the veg reasonably large as you want the veg and bones to brown at the same time. When they've coloured as much as you dare, take everything out of the tray and place in a pan don't forget to deglace that pan with water getting rid off any fat. Top up with water just a little bit more over the top of the bones and veg. Add a little tomato puree to modify the colour not too much its purely for colour. This can be placed on the bones to roast, it will get a little bit of colour but add towards the end of roasting. Now simmer until the flavour is right if it's reducing add a little bit more water as you go along. I will taste my stock taking it off when its got the flavour I want. For white the same amounts except no onion skin or tomato puree, you can also use flavourings i.e. thyme, parsley stalks maybe a bay leaf, just a little its for depth not flavour. This time its softened in the pan adding the bones last and just setting the protien on the carcasses. Once again simmer until the flavour is right. From the opening on this thread you want to take it down, this is done by reducing but after its been strained so get the flavour a little lighter than you want in the finished stock before reducing. Hope this helps Stef

Hate to dissapoint you but Vichy is West of Lyon in France(And the original fizzy water I believe) so it looks like you being selling under false place names for longer than I thought. As for your other points, you just mentioned other products that America tried or suceeded in selling in the US even though they weren't the original. I also believe on Budwieser that they had to concede on the grounds that it was the way the beer is made with out checking I believe it's a top fermented beer with specific ingredients German in originality. What gets me is as a country your the first to enforce trademarks/copyrights. Your justification that its better for the consumer doesn't really win the high ground on morality. Lets be honest if I started making cereal and calling it Kellogs you'd be the first country sueing me, its like the graduate picking on the infant. There's no country in the world that could affect you commercial interests even if we let fake Kellogs from China into this country it wouldn't affect you. The only reason MS got taken to court was because of the action it took against Netscape how many European software houses did he crush in the process. I understand business is business buts lets be honest here do we really think this isn't going to have an affect on Italian exports? IMHO I just think as a superpower you could go about a better PR campaign rather than aggresive underselling. I also understand all countries are guilty of this but I don't see any European country letting fake American products on the market. Was interested about Roquefort do you know why they won? I'm speculating that the difference is Parmesan not Parmigiano Regiano and I take it that I couldn't make Parmigiano Regiano in your country? Why should we adhere to you naming scheme you dont follow ours? Whats to stop us marketing English Wine and calling it Napa Chardonnay? Just higher morals you can be sure that Europe will enforce your naming scheme. Edited: Vichy wasn't East it was West don't give me a compass! Also does anyone know when and why the term Parmesan was coined?

Is in my country can't call anything else parmesan and the rest of the EU

It seems relatively clear that they are comparing the new "6 month grated domestic cheese" to "10 month grated domestic cheese". If there are no other factors involved in achieving the flavor of a traditionally aged parmigiano reggiano (all other factors being kept constant, such as the quality of the milk, etc), perhaps this is a way that all producers could speed up their production with no ill effects to their existing product. Or, some adjustments to other processing conditions may be needed in tandem with the accelerated enzyme in order to still (truly) achieve the same endpoint. That is, Kraft will remain Kraft, but perhaps Parmagiano Reggiano would also remain the same with this accelerated process. I'm not advocating tampering with the traditional approaches, but it is interesting from a scientificc standpoint. ← Totally agree but production in the EU will never increase you cant put land where there isn't! By EU law its extremely regionally specific I say lets increase production put the same rules and regs on Grana Pandano at least its the other side of the river. So even if you speed up the curing process, production by EU law is going to struggle to increase production I can't put cows on land thats not there, but this is where I got lost in the difference in Law! So even though you'd see an initial speed up in production after the first year it would still be the same amount being produced. If I milk 100 cows just because my cheese is ready earlier doesn't mean my cows are going to produce more milk! So why fix something thats not broke?

PassionateChefsDie: Living in the US doesn't make anyone a gourmet or not a gourmet .. that is an individual preference, not a geographical one and we are cognizant of food import laws here as well. ← No but European Law isn't enforceble in the US that was my point! I dont believe that a Gourmet would buy this product that was my point. That and as you have US law if it goes against European Law there is nobody and no one that can do anything Law doesn't work like that. Its only country specific unless you've signed up to EU you have no reason to follow our specs and unless I've missed something I dont believe your a member of the EU yet. In Europe Kraft would of been taken to court just for suggesting it was Parmesan! I could go to a country thats not covered by EU law make the worst cheese in the world and call it Parmesan if there laws dont stop me that was my point.

Here's a blurry clarification chefzadi will correct me if I'm off the wall. Here goes first we start with Vacherin Mont D'or this was how it was known before borders moved then it got split the Swiss side pasteurised and still kept the name whilst the French side called it Mont D'or or Vacherin Haut-Doubs. This is the cheese produced from the mountain pastures and production doesn't start until 15 Aug so now as this is a "winter" cheese where does the summer milk go well on the French side it goes to make Gruyere de Comte as for Gruyere thats Swiss so my answer is its French and Swiss all in the same breath just a ? of what cheese you got. But for a classic French Onion Soup I'd imagine you use a Gruyere de Comte not a Gruyere though as I'm not sure of the differences beyond making and even I'm not sure what Gruyere I've tasted over the years, I cant really comment! I also believe that Gruyere production is made in Gruyere and the other side of the mountain from Mont D'or is called Vaud so I'm not even sure that Swiss Gruyere is produced on the other side, my geography's letting me down here. Hope this helps Stef

I don't know about you folks but I fail to see this as a real problem unless one lives in a parmesan-producing region in Italy .. cheaper, more easily available, more production ... looks good for the consumer ... equivalent in taste by a tasting panel sounds promising to me ... remember that competition benefits the consumer ... Want to refute my argument? ← How can you call that competition sounds like good marketing to me for an inferior product. A farmer against a large commercial body like Kraft I dont need to point out who's going to win this one. Cant see this ever happening in europe thank goodness! If I wanted an inferior product I'd use Grana Padano, according to european spec only 800 farms can produce the milk (To very high specs no bulk buying of milk here!) for Parmesan and only these cheeses can be called Parmesan. Looks like you're being done, Ok so the majority wont notice the difference and there aggresive marketing techniques may well drive imports for true Parmesan down until it becomes an artisan cheese which it is! But the true gourmet who can tell the difference between Grana Padano and Parmesan certainly isn't going to be fooled by an imitation, its another big cooperation picking on small artisan products eventually driving them out of the market place! Maybe in years to come they'll get taken to court but by that time US parmesan export would of probably fallen into major decline, and as parmesan production isn't produced in the US I cant see it ever happening IMHO! I'm interested in the reduction of cost in inventory whats that one line of writing xxxx cheese turned in barrel on xxxx date christ what a cost saving exercise! Secondly as far as know the minimum for Parmesan in Europe is 12-48 months so you've already taken 2 months of european specs is it Parmesan or a poor imitation that you get already? As for more production thats not possible unless its fake cheese as mentioned European states very clearly who can produce milk for Parmesan to stop this kind of practise in Europe, but then your in the US which doesn't need to adhere to these rules. Just my opinion but dont get you food import laws at all, they seem to want to keep production in the US and aggresively keep out other countrys produce.