rich

Rich is usually very well informed, so I'd be curious to know the basis for this. I have not observed a valet parking service in action at very many Manhattan restaurants—actually, I think it's quite uncommon—so if $29 is unreasonable, to what is it being compared? If the price at Rao's is $35, and it includes a wax and wash, that's still more-or-less comparable. (On the scale Del Posto is built for, I don't think it would do if the system were to just give a tenner to Louie, and he'll watch it for you.) Since every restaurant has bathrooms and a place for your coat, there are plenty of comparisons available that allow us to say, "This is unreasonable." Del Posto's valet parking is a service not generally offered at Manhattan restaurants. If you found a lot for yourself, you'd probably be paying around the same amount, without the benefit or convenience of valet service. ← I agree Marc, there are very few Manhattan restaurants that have valet parking. A number offer discounts at various parking garages. But no one (that I have ever seen) who does have a valet service (and most who do are in lower Manhattan) charges anything. There are valet parking services that charge the restaurant an amount for the "franchise" and they provide the "parkers" and cover the insurance. How they split tips is unknown. Yes, I agree (and said so in the post), if I wanted to go to a garage I would do so, but for a restaurant of that calibre to charge for a valet is unreasonable. Either provide it as a service or don't offer it at all. To charge a customer for valet parking who is already dropping a substantial amount of money in your establishment is at best petty and at worst greedy (and I cleaned that up).

Nathan I must respectfully and strongly disagree. Whatever percentage of their customers are driving is irrelevent to the price of valet parking. If you were parking in a garage whose business it is to park cars, then $29 is reasonable. For a restaurant to charge $29 plus tip to valet park is not only outlandish, it's price gouging. No other place in the city charges anything close to that for valet parking and most of the time it's provided as a free service and you tip the attendant. If the Del Posto owners wanted to enter the parking business, then they should have purchased a garage or lot, obtained a license and secured the necessary insurance. I guess flitting around town on a little motorcycle, causes a perspective loss conerning the real world. There is no justification for that price unless they wash and wax the car while you're eating. Even at Rao's, where their version of valet parking is more of a necessity, you get a wash and wax for $35 (if you choose), otherwise just give Louie a ten spot and no one goes near your car. I've mentioned this before, but why stop there? Why not $10 to check your coat, $5 for the urinal and $10 for the full bathroom. The ladies room would need to be priced at a premium because it's all stalls - what about $15 per use? And what about a $5 scuff charge if your shoes mark the Italian (really New Jersey) marble floors. $29 (really $35 after tip) for a restaurant valet, is obnoxious and disrespectful. If I wanted to get raped, I could get myself arrested and spend a night at Riker's, at least they use lubricants there.

Tan - if you know investors who are willing to put up cash and aren't interested in making money, I have a few projects I'm trying to get off the ground. Please let me know who they are.

At today's prices it costs more to "fill-up" at the gas station than to "fill-up" at Per Se.

Thought I would bring this back based on recent events. Listening to the business reports this morning several people were interviewed about the soaring price of fuel. Most were asked how they were going to cope. Two answers struck me. One group of people said they would eat at home and only eat out on special occasions. The other group gave a more interesting answer - saying instead of going to higher end restaurants, they would begin to frequent family-style places. Does this mean it will be tough to get into places like Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Wendy's, McDonalds, Pearsons etc.? Interesting how higher gas prices may become beneficial to these types of restaurants. And more interesting how restaurants appear to frequently top the list of "give ups" when gas or other commodity prices rise.

Please get this permission. Now you've got me curious with all this mystery. ← No mystery intended. I won't repeat what was said to me on a public forum without the individual's permission. I was probably wrong in writing the "sinister" line in my first post. But the PL PR machine can be so grating at times, that I posted without thinking it through. That's no excuse, just a feeble explanation.

There's no need to suggest something sinister, when there are simpler explanations. ← Actually Marc, it wasn't a suggestion. There are other reasons, but I don't feel comfortable posting until I get permission and confirmation. In my mind, the decline is quite evident. But I do understand others who say it's as good as ever. My guess is they have only been going for the last 10 years or so. Edited to correct typo.

It's been in decline for years, but critics seem to be in love with this place for some reason and refuse to say so or they don't have the experience of historical comparison. Or possibly something more sinister, but this isn't the time or place. I first ate there in 1964 (at age 13) and it was top notch and remained so through the mid to late 80's. After that - just another steak house. Not bad, but not exceptional any longer. Remember, there's only one truly great steak house left in this country and it's not located in NYC. To paraphrase Mr. Greely, go south young man, go south.

It's a known fact the chef is a morning person - peters out after 5pm.

You had leftovers for dinner? You ate at home? Now that's worth a review all its own. I'm headed in that area in about two weeks - I'll give it a try for lunch. Thanks for the review.

Notice you said nothing about dinner at Babbo. How was it?

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but since we're talking about Thai ingredients, I have a couple a recipes that call for fresh (not brined) green peppercorns. Does anyone know a good source?

True, Doc and we all know perception is more important than reality in today's world.

Do you think it was dreadful because he wasn't there? Or is the Vegas DB just not a very good restaurant?

Who or what is St. Jean of Avignon? My Catholic Encyclopedia has no entry! Is it a cooking school? A joke? please help! ← Definitely not a joke! ← Thus you leave me in the dark! ← Oh c'mon - a little research can be fun and good exercise for the gray matter. Okay, okay - here's a hint. He's not an actual saint - a nickname given to him by Catholic Church members of the day, and descriptions of him used the same words you used for JGV. He has nothing to do with the DaVinci Code, but the subject matter is related and there is a food link as well.

Who or what is St. Jean of Avignon? My Catholic Encyclopedia has no entry! Is it a cooking school? A joke? please help! ← Definitely not a joke!

A couple of years ago when I first joined (6/02) eGullet, there was a thread about the importance of the executive or celebrity chef in the kitchen. I'll take a somewhat different approach with this. Does in matter at all if the executive chef is in the kitchen or even in the house of any of her/his restaurants? Is it better/worse if they're not present? Is it better/worse if they are in the house but avoid the kitchen and is it better/worse if they don't get involved with the actual cooking or plating. My feeling then, as it is now, is it really doesn't matter who cooks at all except on rare occasions or possibly in a super avant garde type establishment (WD-50, Gilt come to mind). And for the most part, restaurants run better with the EC or CC avoiding the kitchen area, though she/he should visit the resto at least once a month. In high school I was a diswasher for an upscale NYC eatery (no longer exists and I eventually became a waiter). But I recall, as a 16-year-old plate wiper, helping with cooking and plating when the restaurant got really busy. No one ever complained, at least to my knowledge. I'm sure similar situations occur today. What are the eGullet opinions?

In this category we might include JG himself, who was busy visiting tables when I was at the restaurant last Friday for lunch. ← Whole-heartedly agreed. What a humble and gracious man! u.e. ← St. Jean of Avignon

I agree Marc. As strict as he is about ambiance issues, I got the impression the wait staff "aloofness" came this close to blowing the fourth star. It's a good thing all the bathrooms were working.

ADNY and....?u.e. ← Bouley

The only problem with a static menu is boredom - not to the patrons, but to the cooks who must prepare the same thing day after day. For the patrons - I don't think many people eat there often enough to become burned out by the menu. The cliche - if it's not broke, don't fix it, appears to apply here.

Actually, Nathan, that makes more sense to me than any other given reason. Yes, I think he does. Today's JG review was probably his best to date.

Juts read it. Thanks Nathan. It is a good defense because it also points out the flaws of the system and indicates not no get too carried away with small number differences. It will be interesting to read his answer from the person who asked why the NY Times chose the 4-star system (which uses half stars that is not used in restaurants) as opposed to the 100 point system that he appears to advocate. I guess you could mount the same type of defense for the restaurant star system, but more variables enter into a restaurant rating than a wine rating, such as ambiance. I don't think any wine would lose points for an unattractive bottle or label design. He didn't change my mind. I still believe the Times should revamp the star system, but he made excellent points as to why a rating system is necessary for the general public, if for nothing more than a starting off point. Asimov is a very logical guy and did a great job as interim restaurant critic - wish he would have stayed.

I thoroughly enjoyed it the first time. But since I'm not allowed to post anymore, please ignore this. Thank you.

Someone just bribed me not to post on eGullet anymore - they said the entire membership used their influence to assist. I accepted. Who can turn down a guaranteed reservation at the Times Square Olive Garden?