rich

Interesting thought Doc. A valid topic. However there is also a point where abuse justifies abuse. No one entity can have it all one way. But I must repeat. I was totally quite calm until the final comment. He just crossed the line. There must be a point where the customer's dignity does matter. I did nothing more than to ask for table (twice), ask the bartender if we could eat at the bar and ask for my property to be returned to me. Even my parting comment to the MD was say hello to John (not his real name) in an even, though sarcastic, tone of voice. Is there no point where the customer has the right to give within the same proportion as they get? Do we just take the insults and abuse, put our tail between out legs and slink out the door? Do we check our pride and dignity at the door of a restaurant? I'm all for handling problems quietly and without fanfare. But five distinct abuses within fifteen minutes is more than anyone should be expected to take. My wife had criticized me for not berating him and walking out after his first remark about "seeing if he could find us a table." She told me then and there to tell him what he could do with his table and walk out. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and remain cool. But four more insults just didn't cut it. ← Rich, my comments were not meant to question your specific situation. I don't think you needed to reiterate those points, but thanks anyway. My question is simply from a restaurant's perspective, how should they handle a problem customer. I do not mean to imply that you were the problem. My question is more rhetorical. ← I know that Doc. I was just trying to give a clearer picture of the events and at the same time ask what circumstances justify what responses. It could be a complex situation.

Fair enough ... agree to disagree ... I've just finished my second year of law school, though, and I can tell you that what you describe would never fly as an assault in New York state. Even 3rd degree misdemeanor assault requires physical injury. Further, business owners have broad protection from both criminal prosecution and civil tort actions when they're acting in the interests of their business and property. It's why Macy's has a jail on their premises and if they suspect you of stealing they can physically detain you. And if it turns out they were wrong and you weren't stealing, you don't really have a criminal or civil remedy, even if they put handcuffs on you and locked you up in a cell. If you could prove that the bouncer had an intent to injure you, that might be another story in a civil context, but him putting his hand on your back? That's not assault ... not even close. [For the record, I'm not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice ...] ← I agree as you describe above. But he didn't put his hand on my back. He held my hand and attempted to push it down and then wouldn't remove it until he realized I was serious about the consequences. Legally that can be considered assault depending on circumstances since he intiated physical contact. And I wasn't accused of taking anything - there was nothing to take or steal. It was a verbal disagreement between two people. I wasn't threatening their business or property, if fact I had a difficult time in getting them to return mine. It would have ended there had the bouncer not entered the picture as he did.

Interesting thought Doc. A valid topic. However there is also a point where abuse justifies abuse. No one entity can have it all one way. But I must repeat. I was totally quite calm until the final comment. He just crossed the line. There must be a point where the customer's dignity does matter. I did nothing more than to ask for table (twice), ask the bartender if we could eat at the bar and ask for my property to be returned to me. Even my parting comment to the MD was say hello to John (not his real name) in an even, though sarcastic, tone of voice. Is there no point where the customer has the right to give within the same proportion as they get? Do we just take the insults and abuse, put our tail between out legs and slink out the door? Do we check our pride and dignity at the door of a restaurant? I'm all for handling problems quietly and without fanfare. But five distinct abuses within fifteen minutes is more than anyone should be expected to take. My wife had criticized me for not berating him and walking out after his first remark about "seeing if he could find us a table." She told me then and there to tell him what he could do with his table and walk out. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and remain cool. But four more insults just didn't cut it.

No, I understand your point of view. My intial reaction was that I overeacted. But after reviewing the situation over again, I came to the opposite conclusion. I may have escalated the situation, but the MD's comment to me as I was leaving needed a response. He should have let me leave without saying a word. However after I was insulted for the fifth time in fifteen minutes, a response was needed and justified in my opinion. I disagree the boucer had the right to touch me. I never touched the MD nor was I threatening to touch him, so he had no right to do so. Legally, that's assault. He should have come over, stepped between us and asked what the problem was. He didn't difuse the situation at all (in fact he escalated it further). I difused it when my friend entered the situation. It was me who backed off (that's why I'm somewhat upset). I don't think I was ever out of control. I was angry, but knew exactly what I was doing at all times. I was determined to let other patrons know what was occurring and I think I succeeded. I didn't say I wish I had thrown a punch at him, but should have pushed his hand away from mine - that's what I went by being more physically aggressive. I also wish I was more aggressive with him verbally. I should have been able to get him to throw the first punch - that would have been the perfect end game. That would have put Gallagher's into financial chaos. And for the record the bouncer never asked me to leave, it was a man who identified himself as a manager. It matters little if they post my picture on the wall. I won't be returning.

Nah, Rich. It sounds to me like you did the right thing. ← Yeah, I can't quite bring myself to think that physical violence is the way to solve anything involving getting a table in a restaurant. I think leaving and not giving them your business was the best thing you could have done. ← I agree Megan and Doc about physical violence for a silly thing as a table. I was referring to the bouncer. Don't forget, I was leaving before the the bouncer got involved. It just bothers me that he may do this to someone else who is not physically capable of responding. I've learned one thing over the years - even the best of us have only four cheeks to turn. At some point the bully must be taught a lesson. If for nothing else then to help the next person who may be in a disadvantageous and/or vulnerable position. I think if my friend wasn't there or if he wasn't armed, I would have been a bit more agressive. I was concerned that it could have turned into a major incident.

Still bothered by this almost 24 hours later. I totally abhor violence, but in this situation, I probably should have taken some stronger physical action. I hate lowering myself to their level, but it's probably the only thing Gallagher's understands. Sometimes it's necessary to play by the home team's rules and I'm upset with myself for not doing so. Once the bouncer entered the scene and touched me, I had every right to take whatever action necessary to remove his presence. And the above post was correct, what's a place like this doing with a bouncer unless they feel it necessary for the manner in which they treat customers.

The person who asked us to leave said he was the manager. I won't take it any further. It's not worth the time or the effort. Gallagher's management knows what happened (how could they not). Nothing I could do would make them change. It's my fault for going to a tourist trap. I should know better, but it was convenient. Silly me.

I found that strange too. But I'm sure that's what he was - looked the part - very heavy (trying to look tough), shaved head, dumb looking and a very bad suit.

He also may have thought I was a tourist since I was carrying a garment bag. If that's how they treat tourists at Gallagher's than I understand the bad rap some places get from out of towners.

An educated guess - he wanted to be "palmed" for a table. No way at 10pm on a Tuesday with a restaurant at least a third empty was he getting money for a table. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

Last evening my wife and a friend went to see Jersey Boys (great play, I recommend it highly) and since Tuesday is an early curtain (7pm) we decided to have dinner afterward. The show broke at 9:45pm and since Gallagher's is directly across the street, we thought that would be easy and simple. I've never been a huge fan of Gallagher's but it's okay and we know one of the chefs very well (have had dinner at his home on a few occasions) so I thought it would be nice to say hello. When we walked in, the MD asked if we had a reservation and I said no. He said wait a minute and I'll see if I can find something. I thought that strange since the place was probably about a third empty and who could they be expecting after 10pm on a Tuesday. Well we waited several minutes and nothing happened except he said the same thing to another group (of four) who had no reservation and they were seated within a minute. At this point I checked a garment bag and vanity bag in the front with the woman behind the counter. (I was in Albany since Monday afternoon on business and took Amtrak back to Manhattan in order to make the play.) I then approached the MD again and asked for a table (for three). He said just a minute and disappeared into the back. Another 5-10 minutes passed and he didn't return. We then walked to the bar area where two singles were sipping a beer. I asked the bartender if we could eat there. He said no(in a surly manner), if you want to eat get a table. I said I've been trying but it seems the MD has disappeared. He just shrugged and walked away. The three of us had enough and decided to leave. I went to the coat check to retrieve my bags and the woman asked what was the problem. I told her the MD couldn't find a table for us and we were leaving. She said that's impossible, just ask him again. I replied that I asked him twice and was ignored both times, I'm not asking again, please return my bags. She refused saying there were plenty of available tables and to just ask again. I told her no and if she didn't return my bags I would go behind the counter myself to get them. She just looked at me and when I started to move behind the counter she finally returned my property. Seeing this, my wife and friend began walking out the door. Just then, the MD re-appeared and as I was leaving I turned to him and said tell (insert my friend's name, don't want to mention it here for reasons that will become obvious) I said hello. The MD could probaly tell I was very angry at this point and was being sarcastic. He replied, yes I will and maybe he can tell you what you need to do to get a table here. That was it! That was the final straw! I turned back to him, walked over, pointed my finger in his face and said I know what to do in restaurants and if you want something, just come out and say it and not act like a fool and make us look like idiots. At this point, my voice was raised and I knew it, didn't care and in fact, was doing it on purpose. He acted stunned and asked what he did. I told him the problem was he did nothing except disrespect us and that I've never seen this type of behavior in forty years of going to NYC restaurants. No profanity was used (I very rarely use it anyway), but my voice was quite raised. Moments later, I feel someone behind me pushing my hand and finger away from the MD's face. (Remember I was still pointing my finger at him). It was the "bouncer" who claimed it was his place. I then told the bouncer to remove his hand from me or there would be real problems and I dropped my bags on the floor. He just stared at me and I said if you don't remove your hand from me the next thing you will be staring at is the ceiling. He got the message and put his hands down to his side. I was livid and baited him. I said please take the first swing (I was angry, but not stupid. I wasn't going to throw the first punch), I would enjoy "kicking your ass all over 52nd Street." He said he wasn't going to swing and just stood there completely perplexed. At this point my friend sensed something was amiss and came back into the restaurant. He's a correction officer and showed his badge. He also carries a weapon and I didn't want to get him involved for fear of a major incident, so I became a bit quieter. The restaurant was now very still and there was no noise except for us. Several other waiters and managers now came to the front. One asked us to leave and I told him that's what we were doing until the MD verbally insulted me. I picked up my bags, which were still strewn across the floor and we left. My friend told me outside, the MD apologized to him for anything he may have said to start this. I thought that was amusing. But things happen for a reason. We walked over to Eighth Avenue, found a Thai place between 54-55 Streets (Red Garlic) and hade a very enjoyable meal. In forty years of restaurant experience, I have never been involved in anything remotely close to this. It certainly was a unique experience. But I must admit (even now), I really would have enjoyed it if the bouncer took a swing or didn't remove his hand from me. I never had a stronger desire to thrash someone.

Daisy - your Pineapple Vinagre is one of the best condiments ever. Great recipe! Thanks.

Nice handicapping, Rich! Race set up just like you said, and Prado rode well - and his horse was much the best. Had the winner, but no exotics. My cross-the-hall neighbor hit the exacta and tri, and walked away with a nice chunk of change. ← No Exotics for me either. Blue Grass Cat was the first horse I eliminated. Still can't figure out that form reversal. Pletcher does some strange things at times. Party went well - 26 people so six were left out of the pool. I made 13 dishes and two desserts. The only thing left - one lemon, 1 1/2 limes, one orange and half bunch of mint. Went through two cases of beer, 10 bottles of wine and two 750ml of Bourbon. Party started at 3pm, ended at 2:45am. Bendictines were terrifc with the dill - thanks Zilla.

No, different place. The Umberto's you googled is in Little Italy in Manhattan. The one Jason mentioned is in the Bronx - 15-20 minutes from stadium.

At 450 square feet I'm surprised you have room for a sink, never mind a stove. Good luck!!!

Think fencing. The most offensive thing about a blog is its name. Aside from that, let those who can, write and those who can't, become playwrights.

But that's different than saying the point of the artcle was Italian restaurants in decline. But if he was doing that - what would be the point? Just to pick six places and say don't go there and then give one of those a half page photo on the front page? Why bother? I don't get the logic behind it. Unless his point was just to insult the owners and patrons of those six places. However if the nostaglia theory is correct (and I guess he's the only one who really knows), I go back to my original statement. How did he come up with those six places? They certainly aren't the best known or most popular of the old-style Italians. Also, it makes including Roberto's even more puzzling as it's a relatively new restaurant. Either way, I still question his research technique and his knowledge of Italian food of either genre. It appears to me this whole futile effort was haphazard at best or a total lapse of judgement at worst.

I thought the point of the piece was to showcase older-style Italian restaurants (as opposed to the Del Posto, L'Impero, Alto, Babbo etc. crowd), not restaurants that are in a decline (quality-wise).

Now that's a recipe - thanks!!!!!

Dill it is then - thanks!

Roberto's - you need look no further.

I've been making something similar for years. I use panko to coat the Avocados and then serve with a mixture of ketchup and Siricha on the side. Sometimes I mix a bit of cumin and oregano in with the panko before I "bread" them. You'll never think of avocados the same way after you try these. However, you must use a deep fryer and crank the temp up to 375, watch very carefully and as soon as the panko turns light brown remove - otherwise you will have avocado soup, which brings me to one more recipe. There's a great chilled Avocado, Cucumber Soup with some lemon and lime. Outstanding first course for a summertime meal. Give both a try Steve, get back in the kitchen. I'm sure the baby will get to love both.

You got me with this one. Would those be fingers of monks or nuns? In either case, pretty difficult to source these days. ← Fortunately for everybody involved, Benedictine Finger Sandwiches are made with a spread made of cream cheese and cucumber. There's controversy surrounding the use of green food coloring to tint it a pale shade of green. So, rich, are you making the Benedictine yourself? And if you are will you be tinting the final product? Prettier if you're using white bread for the sandwiches, but no matter if you're using a dark bread. Except that people won't necessarily recognize them if the filling's not green. And I'd still use strawberries. ← Yes, I'm making the Benedictine myself and will use a firm white bread. Won't use the food coloring, but will make a parsley paste to add that hint of green. I know the strawberries are traditional, but I have a great source for incredibly sweet peaches from South America, so that's where I'm going. But I am making the Mint Julep Cake, which will use a bit of Green Creme de Menthe for coloring

So, c'mon Rich, you got a contra-favorite for us? Can Private Vow get the distance? ← Actually he's my long shot pick. Two great races over the track - coming into his best form and a very crafty trainer. Shaun rides for me in New York at times - he's my only concern. He may get a bit jumpy and move too soon - he's been known to do that. I'm using him in exotics with Barbaro and Bob & John

Isn't Saturday the 6th? I've been working on a Cinco de Mayo menu for Friday! I know, I know, I'm a smarta$$! ← You're right - I was trying to get a head start for my horse. You caught me!