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I have no problem with the piece being written or to the amount of space it was given, but on the chosen restaurants. With the exception of Roberto's, the restaurants chosen have long-since past their prime (the only one where I haven't dined is Gino.) My feeling is and has always been, research is a sometimes thing for him, as it is with a large portion of the NY Times staff. There are many, many other places that fill his criteria, that are better than the other four on the list and a few a within a stone's throw of places he visited. He says these are old time places full of warmth and nostaglia (paraphasing), but yet he includes the 1992 Roberto's. And as an aside, Roberto's worst day is still better than PV's best at this point. Finally, I disagree that the Times critic knows Italian food - modern or otherwise. As I said, his time in Rome was spent sipping demitasse with JP or Benny - good for the soul maybe, but did nothing for the palate. Here are my opinions of the other four: Piccola Venezia - very good when it opened, hasn't been very good in about 15 years. Ponticello, which is three blocks away, rises head and heals over PV. Tommasso - always interesting, lost its edge some ten years ago, surviving on name and the gregariousness of the owner. Visit Michael's about 1 1/2 miles away. Bamonte - Wise guy hangout that was never that good, but had a solid reputation as being safe for the right people. Even in its day, Prudenti's Vicino Mare was infinitely better (and had better wise guys). Travel about 15 minutes to Sapori d'Ischia for great regional Italian (regional was mentioned in the blog but not described accurately) and the warmth and nostaglia feel he so desparately needs. Manducattis - this was excellent when it first opened and did have a great wine list - no more for either. Their food prices have risen as the quality has declined. People from the immediate neighborhood rarely go, it's frequented by those Manhattanites reading very old reviews. Travel one block and visit Manetta's or three blocks to Bella Vita, better food at a 1/3 of the cost. Hope this helps.

Yea, I'm pushing the season on peaches, but hey it's for a good cause. Bendictine finger sandwiches are the best thing to happen to the Derby since Aristedes.

This Saturday, May 5th, is the most exciting day in American Sports and one of the most internationally watched sporting events - the 132nd Run for the Roses aka, the Kentucky Derby. I'm sure most everyone is going to a perty or throwing a party, so what's on the menu? With a full field of 20, this Year's Derby promises to be a test of skill, courage and natural ability. Six horse have natural early speed and six others are dead closers. The remaining eight will compete from somewhere in the middle of the pack and out of there will come the eventual winner - Barbaro. Here's my tentative menu: Mint Juleps - the real deal Pork Quesadillas with Chiptole glaze Fried Avocado with anchovy aioli Bourbon Glazed Shrimp Benedictine Finger Sandwiches Corn Salsa with Homeamade Tortillas Tapanade filled Burgers Sauteed Oysters with Balsamic Viniagrette Crispy Potato Cakes with Fresh Horseradish and Sour Cream Apple, Onion & Potato Hash Grilled Marinated Flank Steak One more dish to be determined Streusel Cream Peach Pie Mint Julep Cake

It is amazing, isn't it? Too much time sipping demitasse with JP & Benny. It affected his buds.

Anyone who thinks Piccola Venezia is better than Roberto's shouldn't be a critic, should never eat Italian food and probably should never eat in a restaurant again. Any publication that publishes a half page photo of the place on the front page of their food section, should probably cease publication. Any article that mentions Piccola, Tommasso, Manducattis and Bamonte as the prime example of their genre of Italian restaurant in NYC, should be disregarded without prejudice. Can't understand why they didn't include Umberto, Dominick's and Vincent's while they were at it - a disgrace, a complete disgrace. Ever hear of the Know Nothing political party? They have nothing on the NY Times.

I think that's part of the Bolito Misto service.

I think I married her sister.

Try not to hold your feelings or be vague on your thoughts. Feel free to say what's on your mind so there will be no misunderstanding of your posts.

I still think flying to Tampa is the best option and at these prices probably less expensive as well.

That's terrific news. I'm in the Thoroughbred racing business and I know the Sultan also has interest in that area. If you will introduce me I'm sure we can make mutual Thorougbred investments in line with his current fiscal philosophy. And there is plenty of room to invest and open a top-rate dining facility at Belmont or Saratoga (the most prestigious racetrack in the world).

I always attempt to sit on my hind quarters.

I respectfully disagree. While we might find them inedible by today's standards, they were very sophisticated for the times. And most if not all were planned - sometimes months in advance, according to every account I have read. It was especially true for those meals that revolved around the changing of the seasons - which was considered a reward by the gods and eventually became the basis for most of today's religious feast days. I don't see the logic of saying these weren't the roots because we wouldn't find those dinners edible today. Who's to say hundreds or thousands of years from now, people won't feel the same way about what we're eating today.

Hey Tommy, I thought you were headed to Del Posto tonight? What are you doing on the Per Se thread? Everyone is waiting for your Del Posto observations.

It dates back to about 373 BC in Greece when many different courses were served to the royalty at Partheon feasts as a sign of placating all the various gods. Each had a favorite food and no one wanted to offend any god for fear of retribution. The Romans picked up the habit during their reign of terror and glutony - and it eventually came to America during the first Thanksgiving, when at least 19 courses were served. Later on, Washington's inauguration dinner (1789) picked up the practice when 16 small courses were offered during the feast in New York City. It is believed the east picked up the habit from the influences of Marco Polo, though there is some evidence of multi-course smaller portioned meals in very early Shintoism. (I'm not completely sure of the latter - maybe some of our friends on the Asia board can help here.) It lay dormant until Richard M. Nixon revitalized the practice during a dinner honoring the new relationship with China in 1972. More than 26 smaller courses were offered that evening celebrating the many cuisines of both nations. As far as I can tell, its first regular menu appearance was in 9th Century England at inns on the road between London and Newmarket. Travelers were offered a tasting of the best of the house as a lighter repast, instead of a full, heavy meal late in the evening. In this country and in modern times, it seems a restaurant in Queens called The Plantation on Queens Blvd. offered a tasting of the South as a regular menu choice - that dates to the mid 1950's. That's about the best I can recall at present.

1951 - Superman vs. the Mole Men, starring George Reeves and Phyllis Coates. The best scene occurs when the mole men touch some oranges and then it's discovered they glow. Everyone but Clark Kent/Superman thought it was because the mole people were radioactive - they weren't. Truly one of the great food scenes in all moviedom. It shows how food can be the vehicle for hatred and discrimination, but the big guy from Krypton put us on the correct path. No other movie food scene has ever been so poignant and deep.

I tend to agree with SE. The comments from people who have dined there, both on eGullet and off, more often than not, go back to the glitz and atmosphere. Only the pasta dishes have received consistent praise and even then, there will be comments about its high price and that it's no better than Babbo or Lupa, so just eat at Babbo or Lupa for substantially less. I've had two reservations and cancelled both based on comments from friends who I trust and are "Bataliphiles." The impression and perception about Del Posto has mostly been negative when the discussion turns to ambiance and price. That, in combination with "nothing extraordinary about the food," has caused people think twice before dropping several hundred dollars just to be able to say I've been there and walked on the legendary marble floor. Plus, Del Posto has done nothing to help itself since the PR debacle of its four-star aspirations. Rightly or wrongly, that's the perception out there. And in today's world, like it or not, perception is infinitely more important than reality.

It will be worth it and more. There are only two places I would fly to for dinner and WD-50(thankfully I live in NYC) is one of them.

As the cliche states, "...you reap what you sow..." But seriously, if Del Posto can't make it as a restaurant, it certainly has the makings for the first four-star garage in NYC. And with their valet experience, it's a cinch to get four stars on its first review. Who rates parking lots for the NY Times?

And you know this how? From experience? ← Twice!!

Actually, I thought they were "hangin" in the car and slurping down a few brews.

oops...I thought everyone already knew this...um, there is one very pertinent fact here that you're all missing. My understanding is that Del Posto isn't parking your car around the corner. They have an arrangement with a local garage or lot. Part (probably most) of your valet fee goes for that parking spot. Del Posto is not in the parking business per se...but they're giving you access to one. That's why the point that $29 is easily standard for 4 hours of parking in the city is relevant. Cause that's exactly what you're paying for...simply mediated through Del Posto. ← That's not the impression any written review has given. However if that's the case then I stand corrected. If your car is going into another company's lot or garage, then $29 is fair. And yes, that should be a cost to the driver and not a restaurant charge.

Okay guys (everyone), Most everyone is saying $29 represents a fair value and Del Posto's cost - I agree if about fair value if I was garage parking. How does it cost Del Posto $29 for a guy or two to stand outside, double park my car around the corner and get it for me when I leave? Especially when that person is being paid by someone else as is the insurance.

Out of curiosity, can you recall any examples of restaurants that offer this service in Manhattan? My guess? Because it seems very expensive on its face before other Manhttan valet or regular parking prices are taken into consideration, most critics are highly focused on the high prices at Del Posto and they're following the pack like lemmings (just like almost all the early ADNY reviews tended to make much of the "pen selection" bit). ← Testing my memory? Okay let's see if I can remember - Odeon, Cellars in the Sky comped parking in the WTC garage, Parioli Romanissimo, and I believe the original Bouley, though I'm not 100% sure of that one. I have seen a sign in fron of other places in lower Manhattan, but I don't recall the restaurants. However, since the city became safer in the early 90's, most of the time I just park on the street and walk a block or two. I would do that if I went to Del Posto. What other valet prices? I don't know of any other restaurant that's in the parking business. The critics are focused on the high prices because they are high. It seems it's a good thing to criticize, especially when someone spends $12 million on a marble-floored restaurant. If they can spend that, they can offer valet parking as a service - greed breeds contempt and I don't need to say what contempt breeds.

I agree Tommy. It should be just another entry under the cost of doing business. As a driver (because I live on Staten Island), I have given many a $20+ tip to valets, but I have never seen a posted valet fee in a NYC restaurant. In Tampa, Bern's has a $4 service charge for valet parking and says it's part of the their salary. They do the same thing with the wait staff. I have no problem with that. But Bern's charges $4 in an area of Tampa that has no street parking at all, people must come by car (a few cab it) and they have built their own lots. I don't think the cost of living NYC is 7.25 times more then it is in Tampa. If it is, I'll drive there to pay 50 cents a gallon for gas. I'm not even going to compare restaurant success because Del Posto can only dream of reaching a tenth of the heights that Bern's has achieved.

Those are hotels that have built or lease garage space - it's part of their business. I don't know what either restaurant charges for valet parking, but if they and others take their lead from Del Posto, it could turn into a new income source for restaurants. From some of the reviews, maybe they would be better at parking cars than cooking dinner. It could become their full-time business. As an aside, if the $29 was common or acceptable, then why have the majority of critics mentioned it in their review?