Jaymes

Tommy. Someone here said that "MOST AMERICANS HAVE NEVER TASTED" a good tomato (edit: okay, 'produce'). Do you honestly believe that? Never? Positive, definite statements are in my mind in the same category as sweeping generalities.

I am not saying that I am a "typical" American consumer. Obviously I understand that I am not. What I did say is that in my view most Americans have, at one time or another, tasted a perfectly delicious, vine-ripened tomato, and that they prefer them. You made a direct statement to the contrary -- with which I disagree. Oh. And you're welcome.

How can you make such an assertion. Tomatoes in American grocery chains are exactly them same in January as they are in August. There is no such thing as a 'season' anymore. I am no fool, Mr. Camp. Obviously I know that. What I said, and what you didn't quote in your selective editing, is that in my view, most Americans have either grown their own tomatoes, had access to a family member (often grandparents) that did, or buy their tomatoes in the summertime from roadside stands and farmer's markets. Furthermore, in that exact same post, I myself said that supermarket tomatoes are "second-rate." Please read my posts more carefully before you comment. I hate having to re-explain things.

And that actually is a question worth debating. It's a far different matter from saying that "Americans care more about appearance than taste." Many "inferior" foods are difficult for me to eat, since I've had the best, but I simply cannot afford to fly in, for example, snow crabs fresh from Alaska. So now the choice becomes: do I never wish to have snow crabs again in my life? Unless, of course, I win the lottery? However, I am sure you are correct. I completely "missed the whole point." And as an American, I fall into your broad, sweeping generality. Clearly I must care more about appearance than taste. However, I have traveled extensively throughout Europe, including Italy, and I lived in Germany for three years. And I also have lived in the Philippines, where I ate pineapples plucked from plants in my yard, lobster, prawns and other seafood just pulled from the ocean, and the world's best mangos and other tropical fruits. And I have lived in Alaska where I ate halibut and salmon and snow crabs that I had caught myself earlier in the day. And I have lived in Panama where I had four avocado trees and a papaya tree in my yard, and where the Chinese that remained in Panama after completing the canal now run produce stands where the aroma of the ripening fruit is so overpowering it almost makes one dizzy, and the fresh fish I brought home from deep-sea expeditions was a nightly staple on my grill. And I have lived in Texas where I buy snapper and shrimp and oysters right off the boats. And I have lived in Kansas and Nebraska where our neighbors grew fields and fields of various types of corn that they simply gave to us. And I have lived in New Mexico where during chile season, I have walked the fields of Hatch and bought my own peppers to take home and eagerly consume. And I have also lived in New York, California, Arizona, Florida, Missouri, and about twenty other places that each offer their own fresh products of one type or another. However, as I say, I'm sure you're correct. I'm sure my perspective would change if I just got out more.

And I think you're wrong. I think that in the summer, many Americans grow their own delicious tomatoes and other produce, and a great many more buy it from the various roadside stands and farmers' markets. In fact, when you ask Americans to describe tomatoes, their faces kind of relax and they tell you about the great tomatoes that they have eaten right off of the vine somewhere. But I also think that Americans are accustomed to the convenience of year-round produce. And so, in the winter, when these wonderful tomatoes are not available, they do accept the second-rate substitutes in the stores. They believe that second-rate beats none at all. You might argue that point: Is second-rate better than none at all? But to say that "most Americans" have never tasted a good tomato, or other good produce, and choose by appearance over quality, is to my view incorrect.

I almost always find sweeping generalities to be incorrect, and usually asinine into the bargain. Here is a great example. I am certain that comparing a fish market not far from Genova, with one in say, Des Moines, Iowa, where people have decided that, for example, second-rate seafood is better than never, ever eating it at all, makes perfect sense to you, Craig. So what I wish for you is that you be trapped in Des Moines for about five years. And then, after you've figured out that because the US is so vast, if you never eat food that has traveled a long way, your diet would be stunning in its lack of variety, someone can point to you and announce smugly that the reason the fish on your table is inferior is because the only thing that matters to you is its appearance.

That's interesting. I wonder if the person that said on eGullet that they had bought them in Atlanta was talking about the same thing. I know that I saw them occasionally when I was living in California. I suppose it's possible that someone is growing them here, but from reading that article, it didn't sound likely.

Boy I'll say. I guess I'd better not get my hopes up.

Well, I'm afraid I'm going to do nothing more exotic with them than slice them open and scoop out that beautiful pulp. Sadly, I became addicted to them while living in Hong Kong, the Philippines, and Panama. I've been looking for them ever since I returned to the US. When I lived in California, I did find them occasionally at Asian markets, but haven't been able to find them in Texas. About a year or so ago, someone said (on eGullet) that they had found them at Whole Foods in Atlanta, so, all excited, I hopped in the car and raced down there (to our Whole Foods here in Austin, I guess I should clarify, not to Atlanta). No luck. It just came to me that perhaps someone on the rapidly expanding Texas boards might have some ideas.

Not on their website that I could find (with either spelling, both of which I've seen). But I did notice that they seem to be based in Dallas. I drive through there frequently. Is there a market or something where I could go?

Anyone know where I can find mangostines in Texas? I've asked at the produce departments of both Central Market and Whole Foods (several times in fact over the course of about a year), and nobody seems to have even heard of them. Does anyone know?

Good luck on your January "Tamalada." When I am not in an area where I can pick up quality Mexican products, I order them from mexgrocer.com Everything I've gotten from them has been first-rate. Edit: I just noticed a link to mexgrocer.com at the top of my page here on eGullet. Don't know if that link appears all the time. But it seems as though eGullet may get a commission if you click on the link and arrive at mexgrocer through eGullet. If so, I'm sure the jefes at eGullet would appreciate it if you order that way.

This reminds me of how I figured out, so long ago, that there was likely no Santa Claus. My father was quite the gourmet. And after chatting up the other little kiddos on the street, I began to notice that everyone else left out cookies and milk for Santa. But at our house, we left out a selection of cheeses and a very nice port. I began to get suspicious and asked my dad about this. He said, "Well, Santa gets sick of all that sweet stuff." Which I bought for a year or two. But then.... hummmm...

Well? I mostly get BBQ from Rudy's, which is out I-10 at Leon Springs (on the way out to Fredericksburg/Hill Country). They have very good BBQ, in the opinion of this gringo yankee. My wife says they have the best bbq turkey she's ever had - and she's a native Texan. Actually, I was wondering if "Diner" was ever going to get back to us. His initial post was October 25th. Can't help being a little curious as to what his wife did -- like did she take any of our recommendations, and what did she think?

Ah, yes, Christmas Crackers. My mother instilled the Cracker Rules in us early, and we abide by them to this day. Each of us must read the silly joke, and it is forbidden to remove the silly paper crown during dinner. Unless it's on fire. Could one or both of you elaborate? I have no idea what you're talking about. The hat and the silly joke is inside something? Does it explode? Is there anything else in there? Thanks in advance, Squeat Those tube things....usually made out of heavy paper or cardboard...covered with shiny or colorful decorative paper. They look about the same size as if you took a toilet paper tube and covered it with something. And they have strings hanging out of each end. You pull the strings and you get a loud "pop" or "crack." They have something in them -- candy, or small toys, or hats, or silly jokes like in fortune cookies. They're traditional in the UK for Christmas. So when you show up, there will likely be one in the center of your plate at the Christmas table, or in a basket or something that gets passed around. You can buy them here in the States as well, and I often do. They're very pretty and festive, and kids love them.

That's a wonderful story, and really sums it up, doesn't it? Every time I hear stories about people that tried this or that new recipe for Christmas dinner, I always think, "you'd never get away with that in MY house."

Isn't that just the BEST!! And we also had advent calendars. They're wonderful, too. I was really lucky to be a small child in Germany. They "do up" Christmas the very best. We even headed out into the forest in a horse-drawn sleigh to select our tree, which then got cut down, and dragged home behind us through the snow. My Dad always said that the Germans had to do Christmas in a big way because the German winters were too miserable to do anything else.

Thanks. Of course Christmas without my three little kids around is a much different affair. I really miss it. On the other hand, though, I don't think I'd be happy if they had never left, either.

Well?

Another food one. I bought a small (about three foot) artificial tree. That was always set up somewhere in the kitchen and decorated with edible treats -- cookies, candy canes, small wrapped candies, etc., tied on with festive Christmas ribbon. There was also a small pair of scissors. Guests could cut off whatever they liked as their treat. Another nonfood one. I had three kids. I also bought small artificial trees for each child that they put in their rooms. They decorated them according to their personal taste. One year, my daughter had a "Barbie" tree wherein she tied all her Barbie stuff to it, including Ken. And furniture from the playhouse, clothes, little plastic Barbie shoes. She also did a "Pony" tree one year, and a Troll tree the year after that. From the boys, we got Star Wars, Matchbox cars, and various sports teams. Each of the trees also had colored lights, so it made a gentle glow in their rooms. They tell me now that they loved their "personal trees" most of all.

Always a rich and hearty soup for Christmas Eve...usually eaten when we get home from Midnight Mass. For years, this was oyster stew. But recently, I began mixing up a much simpler potato-bacon chowder. But it has to be a luxurious soup of some kind. And then Christmas Morning -- a very special custard-style French Toast, served with strawberries or fruit medly and all the fixin's, and bacon and sausage. Christmas Dinner is the typical -- turkey, ham, cornbread dressing, giblet gravy, sweet potatoes, etc. With Bourbon Pecan Pie and Pumpkin Pie for dessert. I've tried "innovation" -- but at my house, that just made everybody mad. I got the "grinch" treatment. My eleven year-old even patiently explained to me the meaning of "tradition." I never tried that again.

The beach at Tybee. Bring the one you love, a blanket and a bottle of champagne. And a bowl of black-eyed peas... Good idea. That way, even if the black-eyed peas don't work, you'll still get lucky.

I want to thank those of you that pitched in here to help. If you read back through this thread, there is some really good information, and some excellent tips. I know it wasn't easy to admit that you went there -- so I appreciate your speaking up in this public forum. It seems to have some sort of "confessional" flavor. Like you should maybe start a support group: "Hello, my name is Bob and I ate at Tavern on the Green. But it wasn't my fault. I was running with the wrong crowd and they were a bad influence. And I didn't inhale...I just experimented a little." So seriously, I've got some good advice to pass on to my daughter, which is more than I had before, and I very much appreciate it. Thanks.

Ain't Christmas down here without my Bourbon Pecan Pie.