Carrot Top

Years ago, on one of the annual trips to visit family in central Maine, we stopped at a Diner on Rt. 1. That Diner had been there forever and seemed like it would REMAIN there forever. Moody's. Is it still there? I've only flown up in recent years. They made the greatest serious-sort of hunker-down breakfast dish of fried potatoes with a meat sauce...gosh, I wish I had that recipe!

Mmm. Sounds good! About your question about what kind of cornbread...well...ANY sort, really! I just wanted to open the forum for discussion. 'Great Cornbread' has never been a part of my own personal culinary vernacular. Didn't grow up eating it, and can make a decent general sort of cornbread...but I have never had that semi-religious experience in eating it that is sometimes described by connosieurs of the subject! I guess the closest I can come to imagining this with something like cornbread, is to compare it in my mind with the way I feel about great mashed potatoes! So...I'm looking for some recipe suggestions, that would give that feeling to me about cornbread! (Gosh, not that I really need to consume more CARBS...but what the h**. It's a tough job and somebody's got to do it... )

Who out there has the best cornbread recipe? 'Fess up now, and don't leave out any ingredients when you write it out....

...one line seems to come from the far reaches of my memory from Brillat-Savarin on the subject..."a gourmand is a being whom is pleasing to heaven"....

Julienned with capers and shallots and tiny bits of celery and a lot of chopped parsley and a mustard-y peppery vinaigrette....served on seasonal greens garnished with tomato wedges, cucumber chunks, sourdough bread....

This 'special occassion eating'...I don't think that often, it is about having an excuse to overeat. Special occassions generally have some sort of emotional overtones to them. The overtone could be one of stress due to general discomfort with the situation or the people, thereby pushing the buttons within oneself that say 'Eat a bit and forget it', or, it could be an overtone of being in a situation where someone (a MIL, a dear friend) has prepared a wonderful feast that shows every bit of her (or his...not to be exclusive) love for the people gathered. Obviously, in the first situation one would hope that higher thoughts could restrain oneself...higher thoughts of being healthy and fit and thin and everything else...but often I admit to not having complete discipline in this area. In the second situation, I would no more turn down a tiny second helping of the giver's provender than to cut off one of my fingers (though perhaps that would be a good way to lose weight, too...). I would eat the food given with love...and eat less and exercise more, the following week....

From the current American Heritage dictionary comes this note after the definitions of 'gourmand' and 'gourmet': Useage note...A gourmet is a person with discriminating taste in food and wine, as is a gourmand. Because gourmand can also mean "one who enjoys food in great quantities" or even 'a gluttinous eater', care should be taken to make clear its intended sense. I also have the feeling that the meanings of these words may have changed over time...but I think my original sense of the difference between the two words was gained either from MFK Fisher or Brillat-Savarin, and most likely the latter...but I no longer have a copy of Physiologie du Gout to double-check what it defines these terms as meaning....but I have a strong feeling there is a discussion of the terms therein....

Sorry to say I do not....but I do have to say that I would beware of ANY translation of that particular term...that would be given to you by a Frenchman. This is said with good humor and with the knowledge gained from living in Paris for a while with an intermediate knowledge of the language. PLEASE double-check any translation given....with a dictionary....

It is true that advertising brainwashes...also true that we live in a society where 'as quick as possible and as inexpensive as possible' is usually a paramount concern for the majority of the public, and it is also true the comment about piling stuff on top of stuff to create the idea of largesse and 'quality' when it is really just fat quantity, usually. Looking in from the outside as an ex-pastry chef/then chef...urgh. You guys in the trenches have a tough row to hoe. We simply don't have the history of other countries/other cultures that will pay more for a fine quality of food...and decide to wear sneakers without a brand name or go without the newest sort of TV set when their household budget shows that decision. The one hope I can see, IF as a pastry chef one is interested in producing 'artisan' goods vs. the usual, is to educate the consumer. Define your artisan pastries as BEING artisan pastries. Market them as the marvels that they are. 'Artisan' bread was not well known, say, twenty years ago, particularly outside of big cities. And look how far it has come! I'd really like to see the concept of 'Artisan' pastries become real in the average American's mind. It won't ever CHANGE the obsequious availablity of production pastries, and of course they have their place too...both for the consumer when money is tight and for the producers when time and/or money can not be allotted. But simply to have the IDEA exist....that would help the reality grow... The words we use define our culture. Let's 'talk up' Artisan pastries, what do you think? For I am REALLY hungry for some!

God that Mornay Sauce sounds gooooood..... I guess the other part of this that should be addressed is the initial preparation of the roux. If it is made in a nice heavy pan that conducts heat well...and if your stove can emit an extremely low heat...a lot of that floury taste can be slow-cooked out even before the milk is added. But if the pan is lighter and the stove less controllable (as is common in many home kitchens) the roux will start to color much more quickly. I wish you hadn't said Parmesan flavor. Now I want to go make some chicken crepes mornay and I DON'T HAVE TIME TO!

Congratualations on your new position (oh, no...now I am seeing double-entendres everywhere!). It is well-deserved. You add a lot of interesting and involving subject matter to the site.... Now I have decided my answer to this secret rendezvous question. It was not easy, after reading all these mouth-watering (!), thoughtful responses. I would bring my latest favorite cookbook for reading together, a really good bottle of wine for drinking together, and the local phonebook. He would bring (along with the usual one imperative item that I assume he carries with him at all times...now guess what that would be...) an idea of what sort of take-out food he likes and the ability to pay for what we ordered. (Ah! Sexist, yes?!) (Pah!) For sometimes, just like the old joke, my favorite recipe is take-out....

Tradition agrees with the chefs who do simmer for thirty minutes. That is the standard method taught in most culinary schools...supposedly the intent is to erase any floury taste in the sauce. Could be my palate is not as distinguished as others (well, I am sure of this, often, actually, as so many things appeal to me that would not to a palate that claimed sophistication!) but I am in agreement with you. A much briefer simmering does it for me with the proviso that the batch being prepared be a small one. If one is making bechamel in a production kitchen, in a tilting stockpot, (which I have seen done) then the thirty minutes is definitely neccesary....

Nope, I'm a Libra but when I took the quiz and clicked on Libra, all my 'Libra' information flashed on for a split second then Scorpio popped up instead. Just like a Scorpio...those little claws reaching out and getting the attention... I dunno though. Don't you think they need to expand their choices to include Annies Sesame Dressing and some others? And don't you think they need to hire the eGullet crew here to be their consultants?

GG, of all the postings I've read of yours in the brief time I've been logging onto eGullet, this subject seems to truly involve you and bring out many sides of your creativity. It could be that the time has come for you to write a novella. I personally think it would be wonderful! You could perhaps (as the author/journalist) wander from tryst to tryst as the protagonists try their various approaches to this 'touchy' subject, regaling your readers with their quiet stories.... Oh, do! This is maybe another area you are gifted in....seriously....! Then post it as a main story on eGullet... What fun!

Oh yeah...I can understand your disappointment but unfortunately 'personal growth' is not always the same thing to the onlooker who desires it and to the one who seemingly in the situation needs a certain variety of it! Or to put it in old fashioned terms, 'You can lead a horse to water but you can not make them drink'. But, based upon whatever criteria has (hopefully) been set up and clearly communicated, through good human resource policies that are in place on an ongoing basis, you could always go get another horse. To make another sort of stupid paraphrase "If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it." I'll stop now before this nonsensical quoting gets out of hand...

It sounds as if you are very angry about something in particular, in your postings. No, not to 'go into the drama of 'FOH vs. BOH', for it should not be a drama in eveyday working life, should it... Each foodservice facility has its own way of handling these responsiblities, and the determination of 'who does what' or 'who is responsible for what' should be clearly stated both in the organization's Policy and Procedures manual and then again documented clearly in Job Descriptions. This is the basis for clarity of responsiblities in the workplace. If, in your specific operation, you want the Chef to have the capability and daily responsibility for these tasks, then hire for that purpose. No, not all culinary schools train their graduates in complete cost controls. Some do, some don't. Particularly if the career path is aimed at being a Chef, a creative person that handles food not money....the two skills are not always found in the same person, but when they are, the compensation for such a person (if they are highly skilled in creativity, and hired for that skill and not just in following standardized recipes) is generally higher. Restaurant Management or Hotel/Restaurant school graduates usually are more 'schooled' in these things, though certainly given an interest in the subject and a willing mentor, a chef previously not exposed to these things can learn them on the job.

Isn't it the best answer for this task, which is not one-dimensional by any means, to have both the knowledge and controls of the FOH manager in charge of this AND the knowledge and craft of the BOH chef involved in the determinations and phone-call makings (which are endless and always will be...) ALSO supported by information learned from whoever is actually totalling and paying the bills on an ongoing basis AND whoever is checking the orders in (for freshness, weight, conforming to standard and punctuality of deliveries...) In terms of who actually makes the phone calls to place the order, that could be anyone that had the time and ability to do it. But it is the teamwork and communication that leads up to what happens on those phone calls that is imperative. And it's gotta happen as often as each and every day. FOH/BOH conflicts. You don't gotta like each other but you DO gotta respect each other to prosper and accomplish the job.

Have been to two museums lately, both with children, in NYC. (Actually, I guess you wouldn't call The Central Park Zoo a museum! though it is the equivalent in many ways!) It has been fifteen years since I've visited either place and was incredibly impressed at how both have grown and expanded. The physical spaces are much cleaner and brighter. The food at The Central Park Zoo was not too great, though attempts had been made to re-design and prettify the basic menu offerings they did have. I was very impressed with The Natural History Museum's cafeteria, however. Lovely fresh salads, creative approaches to sandwiches, fruits, pastries, and a real attempt to offer food kids like that went beyond the usual. I had a great gazpacho, gorgeously garnished and displayed even though the huge glass it was in was plastic...I felt very well taken care of there. My ten year old daughter was wowed by a colorful fresh fruit and yogurt parfait and my nine year old son had some sort of piled up conglomeration of fresh fish and chips packaged up in a box that looked like a pirate ship... Restaurant Associates runs the account, I believe. Prices not higher than any usual, in this sort of situation though it always feels like someone is saying to me "There's a sucker born every minute" when I pay for eating with two kids in any museum, movie theatre, or public entertainment spot!!!!

But what happens if you just love all the condiments they've listed and more? Do they consider such a person an indeterminate schizophrenic? Or do they get to maybe enter the next 'Ms. or Mr. Saucy' contest and get their photo posted on the website and win a pantry full of condiments?

Two more great books... "Savoring the Day" by Judith Benn Hurley.....'recipes and remedies to enhance your natural rhythms...' "The Splendid Grain" by Rebecca Wood.....'robust, inspired recipes for grains with vegetables, fish, poultry, meat and fruit....' Both exceptional and quite different from 'the usual'!

My mind is on Arroz con Pollo tonight. Does anyone out there have the ultimate recipe?

I'm curious to hear how the goat turned out. I just returned from Chinatown in NYC with a few pounds of cubed goat shoulder for a stew, inspired by this thread. I also first had goat in Africa, Kenya in my case, when I was fifteen. I'd never heard of anyone eating it previous to that. Returned to the US, sheltered liberal arts trajectory and only since moving to NYC have found it can be bought here. Last Christmas, traveling with family I had the opportunity to spit-roast an 8 or nine pound goat in Cadaques, Spain. Tender like I would never imagine goat could be. Still whenever I eat goat, I always think of the Kenyan method of skewering cut pieces of meat on sticks and standing them up alongside the fire to cook. That musky gamey flavor is unlike any other meat. If you have a hankering for an excellent roast goat in NYC and do not mind paying a pretty penny for it, Primavera Ristorante at 1578 First Avenue does a fantastic job. They have been making this for at least twenty years....I once had a client who insisted that I match their roast goat for a dinner party he was hosting for guests, and was nice (and demanding) enough to insist I partake of their offering (at his expense). Mmmmm. Yum.

Another one...this time from Arthur Schwartz' "Soup Suppers": Armenian Meatball Soup ......................................... 2 medium onions, finely chopped 3 T butter 2 C canned tomato puree 5 C water 1 # lean ground beef 6 T finely chopped fresh dill 1 egg 1 tsp. salt 1/2 tsp. finely ground black pepper 1 medium green pepper, diced 2 medium potatoes, cut into 1/2" cubes 1/2 C uncooked white rice 1. Saute the onions over medium heat till lightly browned. 2. Add the tomato puree and water. Increase heat, simmer uncovered 10 minutes. 3. Work together meat, 2T dill, egg, S&P. Shape into 1" balls. 4. Drop meatballs into simmering soup, then add green pepper, potatoes and rice. Cover and simmer gently for 15 minutes. 5. Serve immediately in flat bowls with remaining dill as garnish. This is a better recipe than you might think from reading the ingredients! I often add some lentils at the same time as the veggies/rice, and this makes it even better....

Meatballs...these are good for serving with spagetti in a tomato sauce or in a hero... Ground pork, veal, beef Breadcrumbs (preferably from fresh bread but dry in a pinch) Milk to soak the crumbs in Eggs Minced garlic Minced parsley Dry oregano, thyme, and basil Grated Parmesan cheese Salt and Pepper Blend, form, and either bake in 350 degree oven for 25 minutes then use as desired or freeze raw on baking sheet then put into freezer bags for future use. A splash of red or white wine could be added to this recipe if you like, too. .................................................. All that ground meat would also make a nice chili...that freezes well too!

One thing is, that every time I see a person with a nose ring, my mind takes me back to several years ago, standing in a corner of a hayfield with a couple of my neighbors....me, the newcomer from the big city being instructed by them, farmers that had grown up on the land, on How to Raise a Pig, which for some inane reason I was thinking of doing. We stood there and discussed many things, fences, fodder, water supply...and I listened, fascinated, with the immense amount of knowledge they had and also with bemusement at the many things they disagreed upon, on a subject that I had thought would be a simple one.... One thing they did agree on, though, and they enjoyed expressing themselves about it...and I can never forget it, for they sort of sang it out, over and over, nodding their heads in unison with an occassional spit of chewing tobacco here and there inbetween.... What they were saying (after I figured it out, which took me a couple of minutes, though I nodded knowingly anyway...it seemed appropriate...) was: "You gotta ring 'er, or she's gonna root." Unfortunately this sentence always comes to mind every time I see a nose ring since then.... Obviously both the nose ring wearers and the farmers have enriched my life!