Fernwood

Chiffon Cake?

This was also addressed briefly in this thread. Maybe it helps to make the distinction between cooling to room temp and cooling at room temp. I think the most important point here is that a large volume of hot soup will likely cool too slowly either on the counter OR in the refrigerator, making it vulnerable to bacterial growth until it is thoroughly chilled. The high heat capacity of soup (which is to say, water, essentially the same for all moist foods) also means that it will give up a great deal of heat to the refrigerator and its other contents before it comes down to temp, which may endanger the items around it, as well. Soup is typically an excellent culture medium and should be chilled more quickly. I usually do this by setting the pot in a small sink and filling up with ice water around it. The thread linked above describes putting ice in zip bags right into the soup, as well. This is something to think about whenever you have a substantial mass of hot food that needs to be refrigerated. The total heat content of your food depends on the quantity (mass, not volume) and the temp. The larger those numbers, the more heat has to be dissipated to get down to storage temp. This has implications for how long it will take to achieve a safe temp as well as for the risk of warming other contents of of your refrigerator. Fern P.S. I see that others have made similar points while I have been on the telephone.

I think guppymo's greens look like watercress. Is watercress popular in vietnamese cuisine, or is it a sub for some other green I've never heard of and won't find at my market? I really like it but don't think to use it very often. Fern

Will steam being emitted from a pot of boiling water really burn you more severely that sticking your hand into that water? That doesn't seem correct to me. I agree that since steam is capable of being heated above 100C, it can burn you more severely in that case. ← You're both right / too many variables / who knows? It is true that 100C steam has more thermal energy than the same mass of water at 100C because of the heat of vaporization, but the severity of the burn on that particular hand clearly depends on variables yet unspecified. What wafts from the pot is a mixture of steam and air and water vapor, anyway. Someone with a better command of the science than I might offer a discussion of what would happen if you exposed your hand to pure steam at 100C/1 atmosphere compared with the boiling water scenario.... Or we might just agree that you shouldn't plunge your hand into the boiling water NOR should you put your finger in the spout of the rapidly boiling kettle. Fern

I've never noticed these in any of my usual markets (doesn't mean they're not there)... where do amateurs buy them? Fern

Danielle, This sounds delicious, but I don't think I'm familiar with this kind of bar. Can you describe the finished product a little? Do the chips melt together in the bottom? [Eager to try it] Fern

"Cockaigne," which refers to a legendary land of ease and luxury described in medieval tales, is used in the second edition of Joy of Cooking to designate the authors' favorite recipes (maybe in the first as well, but that one is at my mother's and I haven't seen it recently enough to remember). I believe that the Rombauer/Becker family home in Cincinnati was also called Cockaigne. Another writer may have used the term as well, but that's where I learned the word. Fern

Just noticed this. Yep, that's exactly what we did (see my post above). Before the remodel we used it for both family dining and TV/games. The original kitchen was too small, and the original breakfast room (children's dining, actually) was a laundry room at that time. ← We actually went the other way. The original DR in our pre-WWII colonial didn't sit more than six comfortably, but we ate almost all meals there; we set up folding tables in the LR for really big groups. When we remodelled, we couldn't find a way to enlarge the DR that was acceptable, so we made the DR into a smallish TV room and rehabbed the circa-1970 family room addition into a DR large enough for entertaining. Of course, this entailed ripping out all the brown panelling, brown fake beams on the ceiling, dark brown built-in cabinets, brown-trimmed deteriorating windows and brown shag WTW carpeting. Then we spent an insane amount of $$ putting in floor, moldings, corner china cabinets with leaded glass, etc., to match those original to the house and much better replacement windows (with custom trim). We use it, happily, for every meal. We did add a modest "sun room" at the back of the kitchen that some future inhabitants of the house may think is the EIK, but we have a little seating area there and it just right for the cocktail hour, or anytime I am in the kitchen (where I do not want anyone else under my feet!). We are well-aware that we are bucking the trend, but this works perfectly for us. Fern

Thanks for the nice feedback! Yes, I made 1.5x the recipe, but would make 2x next time to have some for piping (not that I had time for that, anyway). I also did RLB's thing of adding a little butter to the cream to make it more stable and I think it helped. I wish I knew the butterfat % of the cream I use, but none of them are labelled. I figure it's not bad, because Stop & Shop offers "light cream", "whipping cream" and "heavy whipping cream". I know the last is the highest fat because it costs the most:wink:, but it seems like the regulations allow a huge range of fat % and there's no way to really know what you're getting if it's not specified. Your mango cake sounds great! I definitely want to try a yellow chiffon with fruit. I turned one over briefly as a test, but I could feel it sagging out of the pan (parchment underneath), so I just cooled them rightside-up on the counter. It seems to me that the inversion thing can only be of value when the bottom of the cake is sticking in the pan and the top is suspended, so gravity is stretching the cake out, instead of compressing it. If you invert the cake but the top is resting on the rack, I don't see what improvement that is over just leaving it upright. Anyway, they sank to very slightly concave as they cooled, but that was fine. In fact, I ended up thinking that if I had deeper pans and the sides had risen higher, the end result might have been more sunken-looking, who knows? Interestingly, they didn't pull from the edges of the pan in the oven. When I saw one layer start to crack by the rim after they came out (you can see it in the middle pic), I ran my little knife around the edges right away, even though they weren't yet cool. This kept the edges attached to the layers. Fern

That's what I do. Counters and hands both get detergent/water, no bleach or other "disinfectant". Fern

I made my chocolate chiffon layer cake; baked it as two 9" layers. I guess my pans are only ~1.5" high and the cake rose above the rim of the pans in the oven... but fell a little below while cooling. I took a chance and sliced the layers and actually found it pretty easy to handle. I layered it up with a raspberry mousse (just whipped cream, raspberry puree and a little gelatin) and cocoa whipped cream, which was also the frosting. This was finished in a crazed rush during the cocktail hour with dinner not even started, so the assembly and decoration was totally slapdash and I had to be pleased that it looked as good as it did. The crumb isn't as pretty as a butter cake--who cares? It is light, tender and delicious. This made a great birthday cake! Chiffon is my new favorite category. I guess I need to work up some other flavors. Will it work as well with a buttercream, or will the cake be too soft and flexible for a frosting that is more rigid when chilled? Thanks for suggesting this recipe. Fern

I have to jump in and say I am with jsolomon on this one. My credentials are different, but I have plenty of background in microbiology and infection control, albeit from the medical, rather than foodservice, side. The bacterial load on clean, dry surfaces is really not a concern. I treat my cutting boards exactly as described in the post above. I clean my counters with detergent and water and I never use bleach or any other disinfectant in my kitchen. [i will admit that there was a time when I would spray something "disinfecting" around the sink on occasion. That was when my son was in diapers and would have such an overwhelmingly huge and messy poop that the only practical way to clean him up was to throw him in the sink and hose him down. Even I felt the need to clean a little harder after deliberately contaminating the kitchen sink with feces. ] It is my impression that folks with the most specific knowledge about the microbiology of the normal body and home are typically quite relaxed about these issues. Understandably, people who don't have that knowledge may be more susceptible to anxiety induced by ads for products that "kill germs on surfaces in your home...." The manufacturers have products to sell; that doesn't mean you actually need them. So, please, stop smoking, fasten your seatbelt and stop worrying about your kitchen. Fern

Questions for anyone, but especially Wendy & Anne: I made a chocolate chiffon cake the other night based on the Spago recipe that Wendy seems to be familiar with. Below is the ingredients list with annotations about what I actually did. The first version of the recipe I read specified a half-sheet pan. Another indicated two 9” rounds. I used a 9 x 13 pan, ungreased, with parchment in bottom only. It took 35 min at 350 F (or maybe closer to 325, depending on whom you believe about my oven temp). GRANULATED SUGAR, 1-1/2 cups FLOUR, All-Purpose, 1 cup (used 120g cake flour) UNSWEETENED COCOA, 3/4 cup (used Droste Dutch-process) BAKING POWDER, 2 teaspoons BAKING SODA, 1 teaspoon (omitted) SALT, 1/4 teaspoon (used ½ tsp) EGGS, 4 separated EGG WHITES, 2 VEGETABLE OIL, 3/4 cup (used ½ cup) WATER, 1/2 cup VANILLA EXTRACT, 1 teaspoon This was an excellent cake, very chocolatey, light and tender. The crumb was somewhat coarse, compared to a 2-stage butter cake. Maybe that’s just the way chiffon cakes are (I have only made a couple in the past), or maybe my oven should have been a little hotter? I would like to use the recipe again for a two-layer B-day cake. Reading the discussion above about cooling inverted or not, I was thinking maybe the upside-down thing is more important when you have a deeper cake, like a tube pan (more weight). Wendy said she doesn’t invert her chiffon rounds; Anne said she does, but didn’t specify pan prep, I think. I would like to bake my layer cake in one 3” deep pan, then slice. I didn’t invert my 9x13 cake; the edges pulled quite a bit from the sides and I think it might have fallen out if I had. 1. Can I invert a deep round with parchment underneath without fear of the cake hitting the counter? 2. Or do you think the deep pan is a mistake with this recipe...? 3. Should there be a temperature adjustment when changing from the wide, shallow pan to the smaller deeper format? 4. Any opinions about the texture-temperature issue? 5. Any frosting suggestions for chocolate chiffon? I put a white mountain frosting on the sheet cake, which was fine, but boring. For the birthday, I need something that the kids will like (not too exotic), but I’m hoping for more flavor synergy with the cake. Thanks, Fern

Could you post the ingredients for the coffee pie, please? Also, advise what kind of nuts you think are best for crust? Thanks, Fern

I've been reading McGee's new edition and it's enlightening me to all kinds of fancy molecular goings-on in foods that I never really suspected. I don't think he addresses this particular topic--I wish we could get him back for some more Q & A. But the chemical changes he does describe in sugars as they cook make me think that, indeed, things are isomerizing, or polymerizing, or polymers are being broken down, or something chemical is going on that is responsible for the difference in texture. But I'm really just spectulating. Fern

Wendy, I think this is the stuff that is used underneath a tiled shower pan, so it may be the staff that deal with tiling supplies, rather than shower fixtures, that would handle it. Fern

Thank you Jaymes! I never even realized about all those options. I've just been using the "Search forum" field at the bottom of each forum page. I'm experienced, though not expert, at general-purpose Googling but I've been clueless about searching eGullet. Fern

fifi, I did and it was great. It's a keeper. My only issue is the labor to peel the shrimp. (Once or twice a year I discover, yet again, why I don't do these various shrimp things more often.) When I looked for eGullet wisdom about shrimp peeling I found, of course, your thread on the subject. Highly relevant but, ultimately, didn't help much. I keep thinking there must be someone out there with a better technique, cause it always seems a terrible chore to me. I did do it with more deliberate attention this time and found a routine that was somewhat more efficient, but I still think it's a drag. So, sometime later this year, when I've forgotten how much I hate peeling shrimp, I'll make Aunt Audrey's recipe again. Many thanks, Fern

Okay, okay! No problem convincing us to eat blue cheese. I've done a little more research and see that, indeed, the Cockburn's is probably barely old enough to drink. I like your suggestion for diversity; I'll have to start cruising the local package stores and see what I can get my hands on. Thanks very much for your advice. Thank you to Carolyn and Rose, as well. Fern

We recently heard about a resort in far northern New Hampshire called "The Balsams". It's an American plan kind of place, which makes sense, as I doubt there are many other restaurants in the county; I'm not sure there's even a real town in the vicinity. The Balsams website makes much of the food, and the friends that told us about the place did mention it. Has anyone been there? We are fantasizing heavily about a ski trip later this season. Thanks, Fern

Although I discovered that I love both port and sherry some years ago, I haven't drunk enough in either category to know much about the wines (I also love beer!). For my husband's birthday last year he, coincidentally, received two different bottles of port. We have been wanting to open them sometime when we can enjoy them with friends and drink them up, rather than wasting them. I'm trying to plan this occasion and I'm thinking that it would be nice to have a third port to round out the little tasting. I need some advice from those of you who actually know something about the wine. The bottles we have are: Cockburn’s Vintage 1994 (only 375ml ) Presidential Tawny "Matured in wood for 40 years Bottled 2001" C. Da Silva Can anyone make suggestions for a third bottle that might complement these? I think the other drinkers know even less about port than I do. I should also point out that I am shopping in New Haven County, CT--don't think I will be able to get to NYC sources between now and then--so my selection may be limited. Any pointers for decanting the Cockburn's? Since it's just a little bottle, I don't want to waste a drop, but I am not experienced in decanting wines. Also, I'm working on a menu of nibbles for this event. I have heard that walnuts work well with port and I was thinking to include a version of a Turkish filo & feta called sigara boregi. This version includes minced walnuts and Aleppo pepper (the pepper is rich-flavored and only mildly hot). Do you think the feta and pepper are a mistake with the wine? Any other menu suggestions would be welcome, as well! Thanks, Fern

Yay fifi! I think that was indeed the recipe I was remembering. I just knew that some wonderful, psychic, eGulleteer would come to my rescue. Thanks very much, Fern

Well, this is a pathetic one, because I can't remember anything specific enough from the post to do a decent search, even if I had confidence in that process. My comments about searching in general, however, reflect the fact that, even when I think I know exactly what I'm looking for on a forum search, I am sometimes swamped with results that seem quite irrelevant, even though I am looking for something that was the focal topic of a particular thread. I keep thinking that there may be more to know about how to use forum search effectively, but I will have to make some time to look into it.About this shrimp, I am just hoping that someone will recognize the thread, or their own recipe, from my feeble recollections and be able to show me the way. Thanks for trying. Fern

Okay, my eGullet resolution for 2005 is to learn how to search effectively--is it possible? I saw a shrimp recipe recently that I would like to find again. Unfortunately, I'm not even sure which forum it was, nor am I sure that the post was recent, or even in a recently active thread, as I may have been browsing back in Special Occasions, say. I have tried searching Cooking, General Food Topics and Special Occasions, without success. I feel that the thread was not specifically about shrimp, but maybe someone asking for ideas for appetizers for a particular occasion, but I could definitely be wrong about that. The shrimp recipe I'm thinking of was offered enthusiastically, as "favorite" or "best" and I believe it involved a long soak in a (initially warm) marinade. If I could remember more specifics I might be able to search better, but I'm hoping someone will know what I'm talking about... please? Fern

I live in another heavily Italian-American community in New England and the assorted Italian bakery cookies are ubiquitous at Christmastime. However, the only type among them that I have encountered as homemade is the chewy amaretti rolled in pine nuts, "pignoli cookies". I would also say that those are generally the tastiest ones in the bakery assortments, anyway. Most of the others are based on a fairly plain dough piped in various shapes, then some dipped in chocolate, some sandwiched with jam, some with sprinkles, etc., etc. From a good bakery they are quite nice, though the mass market versions, presumably made with pure vegetable shortening, are pretty tasteless to me. I think the pignoli cookies are easy enough to make (though the nuts are not cheap!), so I would try those and don't worry about the rest. Good luck, Fern