ludja

looks like you're a quince-cooking pro now!!! (good thread)

Flavors sound good. Another key part of enjoying fois gras (for me) is the texture. How is the fois gras incorporated into the soup?

I agree with your points, but I still do think it is the diners (or expectations by the chef, of the diners) that transmutes a great total meal experience at an Italian restaurant in Italy to isolated "great" Italian dishes here. (Assuming you can get good ingredients, which, as has been established, you certainly can, for at least certain ingredients here). I think partly that is because one is responding not just to the quality of ingredients and preparation. It reminds me of something that my Dad says sometime, to the effect, that, out of context, one perhaps can't enjoy a thing the same way as someone that is steeped in the context and history. If you go to Italy (for instance) you can get a glimmer (as an outsider, even a 'knowledgeable one) of the regionality, tradition, history that makes a meal special, but you won't have the same experience as someone that lives there, (whose parents and grandparents, etc, lived there), maybe grew the food, or remember when it was grown down the street,etc., or how it used to be made, what was drank with it, etc., etc. When one takes all this into account, perhaps it is not surprising that one can not transplant that experience here (exactly). Even if you have a passionate chef that wishes to do that, there are always some limitations of the context of the diner's knowledge and expectations, the ingredients, the history, the atmosphere, the servers, etc. I think what makes a great regional dining experience in other countries or in a particular region (eg. Italy)--and at least for me, is that besides the quality of the food--one is participating in a host of other ineffable experiences and context that are transmitted to create the final experience of enjoying a good meal. One gets a peak at all of that if one is sensitive to it. And if it is part of your own family background, (i.e. for me when I eat at great places in Austria) there is even another mysterious layer of enjoyment (knowing that this is a living, passed on thread of shared experiences with your family). I don't mean any of this as substituting for the actual cooking or ingredients, rather, added on top of it. Well... just inspired by some thoughts on here... feel free to laugh me off the thread!!!

Your "imagined" conversation was very similar to ones I have experienced with locals in France and Austria as well... (i.e. passion, knowledge, tradition about food, or rather particular dishes or ingredients). And while that also definately occurs here in the US w.r.t. certain dishes, there (in many places in Europe) it encompasses a whole regional cuisine.

Its a suburb of Hartford. I don't know how to reply (with quotes noting different posters) in one reply but.. first, thanks Jason,for mentioning, Jerry's Pizza. That is an old favorite I've been lucky to go to many times. Now residing in the SF Bay area, I definately need my East Coast, yeah, maybe even, CT, fix of pizza and GREAT basic antipasto platters... when I go back. but, will add for other posters that, besides, err, Middletown being a suburb of Hartford, it is the third oldest (larger) town in CT. It's right on the CT river halfway or so between New Haven and Hartford off of I-91. Has a (still somewhat) wonderful downtown Main ST right off the river lined with old buildings. Sidestreets betweent the old buidlings afford glimpes of the CT river and at one end of the street, is O'Rourkes diner of steamed cheeseburger fame. Sloping up from Main St and the river is Wesleyan University, established circa 1800 or so. The city had a major influx of Italian immigrants at a later date (after the anglo-puritans), who I believe came mainly from a few towns in southern Italy. So,, there are some remnants of good Italian food here and there. Enough Middletwon boosterism, though, I need to probably start another thread on my true origins, New Britsky (er, New Britain) nearby.

thanks, I'll be sure to take notes and add my impressions to the thread...

great post... (and a very interesting thread) I would add though to the last comment re: ingredient quality and passion: tradition and knowledge of the regional cuisine. In your wonderful script, the people also have had that dish many times, tasted it with slightly different variations or with ingredients that vary. They *know* the dish and they know what is perfect to eat and drink with it. I myself do love to experiment with different cuisines and cooking techniques (i.e. a wide breadth of cooking and food experiences). But it is also this very breadth that takes away from some of the benefits obtained with depth and knowledge of a particular regional cuisine. This aspect can't be gained by just reading a recipe in a cookbook (although some of my favorite cookbooks do present a lot of context) OR by just eating that particular dish in a restaurant (especially when the choices don't have any context with each other). I guess this is where a tasting menu could come in, or a pre-set dinner (like Chez Panisse) or eating a great meal at someone's house that knows a regional cuisine and how to cook it. Also, I guess I'm referring to a particular type of culinary experience in which the regionality and tradtion are important (rather than (an also good, but different experience, in which a meal is more an overt experience in creativity with ingredients and techniques) Now that write a little, perhaps what I meant to encapsulate with "tradition' and 'knowledge of the regional cuisine' is the concept of context. Part of what I (and I'm sure many others) find wonderful about eating, say, great food in Italy, is the context of the food and how the food in a meal goes together. Something that made a big impression on me in a meal in Florence was the offering of fresh pineapple with kirsch as a dessert. While that particular combo may or may not be traditionally Italian, and so may muddy things as an example, it certainly adheres to the Italian tradition of "simple fruit" for dessert. I don't think that some simple wonderful fruit would be served in any equivalent Italian restaurant here. (I don't mean a *fancy* restaurant where one might be looking for more preparation, etc). People would not order it for many reasons including not enough perceived 'value' for the $, perhaps inferior ingredients, doesn't fit their expectations of dessert, etc. Well anyway, as I ramble here a bit; I guess I see a big difference between a (non-touristy) Italian restaurant here vs there being in what is offered to eat and how this affected by the knowledge (and ?conditioning?) of the diner. edit to add a word

"On the way back from Boston, Rachel and I stopped at O'Rourkes Diner in Middletown, at the insistence of San Francisco Chronicle (and former Hartford Courant) food columnist Bill Daley, to try the legendary STEAMED CHEESEBURGER. The Steamed Cheeseburger is a unique, strange and beautiful regional variant of the cheeseburger which is limited to only the 25-mile radius of Middletown, Connecticut. Its served at maybe a dozen different places in the local area, including Ted's in Meriden. " Jason, thanks for reminding me of this and for the pix. I grew up in Middletown and never went to O'Rourke's for the famous steamed burger. I'll be back at the holidays and will definately check it out (and report back). In the end, did you think it was worth the detour?

this description may single-handedly stymie my cautious foray into the world of tripe... but here's my story anywasy... A good experience was actually my first meal in France... off the plane in Paris we were on our way to a stay in Brittany and had lunch at a bistro in Chartres. I had a great salad plate consisting of andouillette sausages served with frisee and other bitter greens with a mustard sauce. I think there might be veal also in the sausage so it is less 'full frontal' experience. it was very nice... maybe it helped that I didn't know there was tripe in it until afterwards...

Christmas and New Years are a great time for sumptuous, special fare like Fois Gras. Share one of your favorite preparations of this delectable, cooked at home or prepared by someone else... I have not taken the plunge and prepared fois gras at home yet, but do enjoy it every time I get the chance while dining out. One memorable preparation was at One Market in San Francisco (Bradley Ogden). It was a shaved fois gras salad with hazelnuts, frisee and cherry port syrup served with fois gras brioche toasts... Fois gras has been on my mind recently due to the 'fois gras pronunciation thread' ( ) and also after I ran across this article on Alsation fois gras... gives a little history and some recipes...Alsation Fois Gras

How about a flourless pistachio nut cake with a rose geranium-scented creme anglaise? (I've made the scented creme anglaise before with a simple pound cake and I really loved it. Maybe it would be interesting with the pistachio cake...?) Need a rose geranium plant but they're lovely... or maybe a chai-flavored custard or panna cotta?

mint-flavored Christmas marshmallow peeps (oh wait, I don't think they make those yet)

don't get me started on Brittany oysters.... we had a chance to visit an oyster farmer/store in Belon and had wonderful oysters there. The two young daughters were manning the front desk to sell shucked oysters for people to eat. It wasn't really a restaurant, but they had a courtyard w/a few tables. A bottle of chilled Muscadet Sevre et Maine Sur Lie, chewy bread with sweet butter and fresh out of the water oysters...

Mexican Chocolate Cake--- (called Ibarra Chocolate Cake in Southwest Tastes: From TV series Great Chefs of the West flourless cake;; batter consisting of eggs, grated almonds, grated chocolate, minced orange peel, orange juice, sugar and cinnamon. Paint w/Grand Marnier when cool. Then cover with dark chocolate glaze...

Not. See's started in Los Angeles. First store was on Western Avenue in 1921. They didn't expand to SF until 1936. History Thanks for the correction! I'm not trying to steal thunder from the southland... I guess what I must have seen was that the store on Polk St was the first in SF. (rather than the first ever). There was a big article on it once in the paper where they showed a horse-drawn contraption used for delivering chocolates. spelling edit

We took a nice trip one year at the same time (right after New Year's) down Hywy 1 from Santa Cruz to Santa Barbara area. We did a lot of great wine tasting--both in the San Luis Obispo area and down further just north of Santa Barbara. I don't think we had any problems w/wineries being closed...but it probably would be a good idea to have a wine map and be able to call ahead if you're going out of your way. We went to three different wine areas--Paso Robles (zinfandel), San Luis Obispo (chard and pinot) and then Santa Maria to Santa Barbara (chard and pinot). Probably my favorite wine area is between Santa Maria and Santa Ynez. One wonderful thing about going this time of year is that the hills should be really green. One thing that happened though, is that Hwy 1 washed out behind us--so it's worth while to keep up on the weather and road conditions if it is raining alot. We went down Hwy 1 and came back on 101. Some non-wine possibilities are Hearst Castle and the mission in San Luis Obispo (right down town). There is a neat old stagecoach inn in Los Olivos with okay food and tons of atmosphere. Note: this is right down the street from the now infamous Neverland Ranch. For part of our trip we stayed in Lompoc (between Santa Maria and Santa Barbara). There is a neat inexpensive motel there that was pretty fun--very retro from the fifties or sixties but neat and clean--and it has a bar. It's called the Spaceport Inn (it's just down from the airforce base). Anyway, thanks for your question, brought back lots of nice memories of the trip. Have fun!

What a nice custom... reading the last part about the animals reminded me that my mom was always told that the animals all could speak at midnight on Christmas Eve. She and my aunt would creep out to the stable where the cows were to try and catch them at it. My sister and I would try to stay up to midnight to see if our Siamese cats were conversing... (we always missed it when they spoke... )

a few ideas... Just recently made some nice savory buckwheat crepes with a leek, creme fraiche filling as follows: stew chopped leeks (white part) on low heat in butter for an hour add creme fraiche and cook a bit until thickened; s&p to taste, pinch of numeg. fill crepes w/filling plus grated gruyere Bake until heated through ~ 15 min. Have also enjoyed sauteed onions and gruyere inside; then drizzled red pepper rouille over the top. A totally different way I had crepes in Brittany (but very traditional) is buckwheat crepes wrapped around a grilled sausage...

Most special thing is having real candles on our Christmas tree (in addition to lights). We light the candles on Christmas Eve and q few other times. It is truely magical, with Silent Night in German in the background and is a time (amid all the other bustle of the holidays) where one can reflect on the true meaning of the holiday. *Note* we alway cut our own tree a day or two before Christmas Eve and never leave it unattended* Food on Christmas Eve is large platters of Austrian/German coldcuts and cheeses including Westphalian Ham and cold, smoked pork chops, liverwurst, salamis, headcheese, etc. also good pickles, rye bread, stuffed eggs w/anchovies, creamed or mustard pickled herring, german potato salad, etc. and concluding with a large platter of my mom's cookies (at least 10 different ones). Santa Claus always came (and still does) on Christmas Eve to our house w/Austrian traditions. When we were very small, he brought all the presents and a decorated tree on Christmas Eve. (Blanket would be over living room door). When older, we decorated the tree the day b/4 Christmas Eve and Santa Claus brought the presents and lighted the tree (*tree lights only--no candles!)... We had to leave the house early in the eve, then drive by later to see if the lights were on. Needless to say, boundless excitement to see the lights on... Christmas Day Dinner somehow evolved to an English Standing Rib Roast w/Yorkshire pudding, creamed onions, peas, etc. Started w/shrimp cocktail and finished w/trifle and/or plum pudding. edit for missing word

Francis probably knows more... but there are a few crepe places in SF, including my favorite, Ti Couz. This restaurant specializes in Brittany-style crepes using buckwheat flour. I think they use buckwheat for savory crepes and wheat flour for sweets ones. They also serve great dry ciders from Normandy/Brittany to go with... I don't know about anyone else, but I always get savory and sweet when I'm there...

I actually don't have many yet (that I would wholeheartedly recommend for a place in people's libraries)--beside Fowler's Classical Southern Cooking and Bill Neal's Books. Although another nice one is: 'Butter Beans to Blackberries, Recipes from the Southern Garden" by Ronni Lundy. I haven't tried to get copies of any of the older principal sources, like Charleston Receipts... Others: The Flavor of the South by Jeanne Voltz. This one has 'non-fancy' basic Southern dishes; fun to read and I've had luck with what I've tried. Mama Dip's Kitchen by Mildred Council Always loved eating at the old 'Dips' in Chapel Hill; enjoyed it a little less in their newer, bigger place across the street..recently got this as a gift and haven't tried much out yet Florida Cookbook: From Gulf Coast Gumbo to Key Lime Pie by Jeanne Voltz and Caroline Stuart This is a neat book with lots of interesting regional recipes, broken down into seven regions. The New Southern Cook by John Martin Taylor I'm not as fond of this book but I think that is at least partly b/c I am less interested in 'new-fangled' recipes; or maybe it is just the recipes in this book. I think Taylor's book, 'Hoppin John's Lowcountry is well respected but I'm not personally familiar with it. thanks for the mention of the Time-Life book; and I need to look at Edna Lewis' books more to see which would fit in best. edited to catch at least a few typos...

Thank you very much! Now don't have to limit myself to having this during dim sum visits...

If you want another starchy dish with less meat, how about turnip cakes? These have a little pork in them. These are a favorite of mine at dim sum but I don't know too much about them. Does anyone have a recipe for these? Does one use preserved turnips? Thanks

We thought it was strange when we heard American country music in a small Carribean restaurant in St. Kitts... until we rode in a few different cabs and found almost eveyone playing... American country music...

Yup, barely sweetened, it goes great with a dark chocolate flourless (or little flour) cake... (unfrosted...) It's rich, but the slight tang goes well w/the chocolate Tried this recently with a great french chocolate cake recipe in Chez Panisse Desserts that has some ground almonds in it.