kangarool

The topic title says it, to get fried rice at home as close to old-school NY-style chinese restaurant fried rice as possible. Thanks for that. You’ve misunderstood. I’m not talking about a flambe, I’m talking about getting the flames to lick into the bowl of the wok… I’m talking about intense heat, all around the rice. I’m talking about doing whatever I possibly can to channel Bayard St. into my rice. Thanks for explaining that, haven’t come across that before. Don’t follow deep fried sliced potatoes as an analogy at all. Thanks for the tip. Your problem here is that you’re wrong, I do have enough heat. No, I’m not screwed. Worked perfectly for 4 of us last night. Don’t have to. Worked perfectly. OK. Feel better now. In fact I feel great, ‘cause the rice turned out spectacularly. I’m there. I’ve got it. It’s now mine, forever. Followed Jason’s Chinese-restaurant-in-Jersey tips from page 1, petty much to the letter, and got what I was after, the rice had heaps of colour (not from soy, but the little black sear marks from a fiery wok that make it), some beautiful BBQ pork bought here in Melbourne’s Chinatown yesterday chopped up, day old rice, fresh little prawns/shrimp, peas & onions. Thin omelette of egg, pre-cooked and chopped up (that bit varies from Jason’s guy’s instructions). Bit of salt, dash kikkoman, no MSG. Then I set the kitchen alight and a minute or so later, Pell St. at home. Easy. /kanga edited to say no msg, not no soy

Nothing posted on this topic for a while, but I have a couple fresh questions that I haven’t seen mentioned before … 1) Wok Flame, and its role in getting classic NY-takeaway-style rice: I have a wok burner and a well seasoned wok, and have finally managed to get some serious flame action happening not just up the side of the wok but actually into the contents/inside the bowl of the wok itself. I’d been trying to make char hor fun/rice noodles, but could never ‘set them on fire’, even tho I always chuck in a bit of strong Chinese rice wine. I finally mastered it, by seriously tipping the wok full-on into the burner flame… I just hadn’t had the guts to tip it that far, but when I did, it did the trick. Exhilirating! (My wife would use another word …). But now, when it comes to rice, it doesn’t seem right to add Rice Wine… so maybe “flame inside the bowl” isn’t required for the taste we’re all looking for? Seems like getting the flames actually inside would help get me closer, but the rice wine taste wouldn’t. What do you think? 2) Other question is about the egg… I’ve always found that when raw egg is added to rice, even in a hot wok, and then mixed in (even if allowed to set a bit), you get a sheen or gumminess to the rice, as the raw egg adheres to the rice and alters the texture. All the NY style rice I’ve had has been much "drier", and the egg a much more separate, solid component. But I see lots of suggestions to add the egg and mix it up with/into the rice, rather than cook a separate omelette and add it as its own ingredient, later. Hope you have ideas, I am going to give it another go tonight. I have recreated lots of chinese recipes to great satisfaction, but never this all-important one. I know it can be done…

Takeaway only? Is it a big event kind of thing? How many guests would the pig take care of? That could make for a spectacularly memorable backyard barbeque, invite a bunch of mates over and then unveil the pig! Hmm don't know Red Ant, will have to search it out next chance. Reasonably priced? Point taken, tho I usually go the dumpling route, in which I don't think MSG is used as much... or probably more accurately, I don't notice as much.PCL, just going from memory from other threads, and could be completely off base, but aren't you a Northerner, as in Nth Carlton area? For some reason I thought you might be, and if so, do you know any places in that neck of the woods worth tracking down?

Sounds like a good reco Julian, I’ll tear myself away from the other two mentioned and give it a shot. You’re right, it is right there in the heart of it, near Swanston St and Little Bourke. I’ve always been curious to look inside, so will now make a point to do so…

Camy isn't a chain so far as I know, certainly doesn't look like one... just that great, old-school red-plastic backed chairs and torn, stained vinyl tablecovering. Always packed. The soup dumplings ("Shanghai Pork Mini bun") are as good as i've had anywhere, but really I haven't found anything to be a miss on the menu. Tattersalls Lane is parallel to Swanston, first lane to the east, from memory. Pacific House is great, and the other spots you mentioned I've heard good things too... Dumpling King is the one that always gets good press for their yum cha, right? I'll have to make my way out the Eastern soon and give it a try.

Inspired by the Good Chinese in Sydney thread nearby, I'm curious as to everyone's opinion about the best everyday, good value, real-deal Chinese all around Melbourne. There's plenty of info about how to suss top-dollar, big night out Chinese, but I'd love to be tipped on to some less-heralded gems around town. Just to contradict my own rules, I'll kick off with two that are well known and much-heralded, but I offer them as an illustration of what I think is pretty much stellar chinese food for the dollar charged: Camy dumplings & noodles, and Supper Inn, both within spitting distance of one another in chinatown. I literally am unable to make it past one or the other of these two spots when I'm in the city. And you'll walk out for about 10, 20 bucks, around that, completely full, fat(ter) and happy. I work near Footscray, and I like Hong Kong BBQ (not sure if that's exactly it), and New Aberdeen, both right across from the market I haven't found one in the inner north where I am (Brunswick, Northcote, Nth Fitz, Carlton Nth), mainly because, I've been burned too many times and have basically given up trying. Malaymas on St. George's Road and Holden I think is great for malaysian/chinese, but there i go again, breaking my own rules. Love to hear your thots & recos...

Good topic for thread... the best chinese joints for everyday (ie not Flower Drum) so will start up a new thread next door for Melbourne. Supper Inn's a given...

I haven't seen anything from Jeffrey Steingarten for some time... is he still writing the column in Vogue? Does anyone know if there's another collection of his essays planned? I've enjoyed his two other books very much -- although not everyone has. Great holiday reading. If anyone knows of any news about any future books of his I'd love to hear.

So, my new eGullet motto is, don't think just cook. Decided to chuck it all together tonight to see how it turned out... visual results below. Dejah thanks for the tips, I basically followed my guess and your tips as I threw a wokful of stuff together, and it turned out a dream. Actually, it was quite uncanny how incredibly, not just similar but the *same* Chicken Chow Mein turned out, as I had threatened to inflict on my friends. Actually, "inflict" isn't fair, because the dish was really quite tasty... different from what you get from takeaway shops here, but very much the NYC style I'd promised, and, really good. I'm lucky to have a well seasoned wok and a full-on built in wok burner. So, thanks again. I did leave out the mushrooms... in the end, I just couldn't purchase tinned mushrooms! Which defeats the whole point of the excercise, I know... one with flash, one without, couldn't decide which looked better. Anyway, good fun, and I introduced a roomful of mates to a whole new genre of "Chinese" food!

Was just about to post a request when I saw this thread, so thought I would add my question here, rather than start a new one: I had some takeaway Chinese the other night with some Australian friends here in Melbourne, but it was from a reasonably legit (aka "authentic") Chinese place. Most interesting was the "chow mein"... what we had was the Chinese version, with proper noodles that are softened then fried, and the sauce, seafood and veg were all well cooked, fresh, etc. so then I tried to describe American-Chinese (aka NYC style take out) "Chicken Chow Mein". The "noodles" you get in the little cello bags were pretty well understood, but the "chicken Chow" part of it took a bit more describing, and in the end, I said I'd just have to try to make it. Here's what I would do: (Velveted?) Sliced chicken breast Onion, Bean Sprouts, Celery, maybe bamboo shoots & slimy straw mushrooms? can't remember for sure on those last two for the sauce, I'd guess: Chicken Stock Light cornstarch slurry plenty of salt and MSG bit of white pepper maybe a bit of rice wine, a touch of sugar and soy. But i remember the sauce colour being quite light/clear, so I think the saltiness would have come from salt and or MSG. What do you reckon? Would that come close? Any other suggestions that might help me replicate a "23rd & 3rd" CCM for my mates?

Is this recipe for the sauce available to share? I'm on the hunt for a great bbq/barbeque sauce recipe... thanks

Fair enough Chef's Office, I'm with you. A quick page through the story matches your take from the article... you're right, it's their magazine, it's his issue, I wasn't stolen from, and in the end has little to do with me. If I go to his restaurant, and don't enjoy it, then I'll chime in again. And in the interest of complete clarity and fairness, i'll confirm that nowhere in the article are the recipes ascribed, explicitly, as "his." They weren't at all, either from his mouth or the journalist's.

When money and fame are involved, it’s pretty well a given that the worst of humankind comes to the fore. So, my suspicion is that Wickens hasn't (re)created the Interlude menu to pay homage to WD50 or any others. It's far more plausible that he did it because he gambled that those of us in Melbourne wouldn't ever connect the dots… he’d get the fame and the press and accolades (which he has: "Best New Talent" in GourmetTraveler, one of Oz leading mainstream food publications, last year) … which in turn leads to more bookings… and the whole party continues. Unless you get caught out. The other interesting aspect to the controversy, as someone alluded to above, is the economics of morality. Although he may well be concerned about his professional standing and credentials now, both in Australia and around the world, it is extremely doubtful that chefrobin is concerned about the monetary impact of this rarefied controversy. Most of his potential diners aren’t on these boards, and even if they are, they probably would still book a table, pay the bill, enjoy the night out … quite possibly even more now that there’s a frisson of scandal wafting up from the shrimp noodles. I seriously doubt that I’ll refrain from booking a table there because of this. The food is supposedly superb… although I may well think about giving someone else in town a fair go, whereas I wouldn’t have thought twice before. Regardless, it might pay for him to think more long term. The professional fallout from his menu-ripoffs will almost certainly impact and call into question his "best talent" status in the industry and press… leading to fewer coverboy profiles, as the food press won’t want to be seen favouring a fraud (even if he’s only been a fraction "fraudulent", if at all). And then the whole party starts winding down. In the long run, it might have paid to push a bit harder and devise your own dishes.

Thanks. Smoked them with Hickory, as Barbeque's Galore was out of Apple. I have some fruit trees in the backyard, which I'd hoped to use, but read that smoking wood shouldn't be "green" or live, as it imparts a bitter taste. ? And the temperature was not taken... thought I'd wing it, and save the cash I would have spent on a thermometer, on a slab of Coopers Pale instead, to keep me company during the smoking. Had about 15 or so normal briquettes, and one well-soaked chunk of wood... I saw a chart that said something like "150-200 degree heat is where you can hold your hand over the coals for about 7 or 8 seconds without searing your palm" ... That's my kind of accuracy! You should give it a go Scott, it was pretty good fun, and relatively easy. Easier than a $2,200 Melbourne-LaPlace return flight anyway. good luck, let us know if and how you go...

Here is part two… all in all, it’s a reasonably tasty result. I have a sense that this is sort of an ‘andouille wannabe’, as I think my equipment is inferior (a Weber kettle, not a proper smoker), and that I probably had too high a heat, and too short of smoking time, for it to be considered totally legit. The other concern was that, the more I read about smoking sausages, the more I came across references to all those wonderful bugs in the zoo: botulism, trichinosis, e. coli, all those fun guys. I’m not worried about it, but it did play with my brain for the six or so hours of waiting around. I consoled myself that, although there’s not heaps of salt in the Folse recipe, the garlic and black and cayenne peppers wouldn’t make a very hospitable bug environment. I have no scientific basis for that belief whatsoever, of course, and I’m sure is foolhardy to think this way. All that being said, the sausage tastes pretty goddamned good. I sliced one of them, and cooked it in a cast iron pan over high heat, a bit more fat rendered out than I expected, but it wasn’t a problem. Lots of beautiful garlic flavour and smoky black pepper was there, and the taste and texture of freshly ground pork, rather than the usual Safeway blandness, was a treat. All in all, I’m extremely pleased with the result, and can’t wait to get the gumbo going tomorrow night, to finish the whole thing off properly. My gumbo I now have perfected, so there’s no worries there. Future andouille attempts (and there will be more: it’s been a much easier effort than I anticipated, even if the result wasn’t 100%, it was far and away closer to New Orleans than anything I could hope to find at the polish or italian deli’s), will benefit from a longer, slower, gentler cooking time. And, probably, that prague powder or some other curing solution to put my mind at rest about bacteria. OK, off to get the roux underway! Along with chucking in the andouille, I’m also thinking of getting hold of some Northern Territory croc meat, and pretending it’s ‘gator!

Finally got around to it... half way at least. Amongst work surprises, family commitments and the usual delays, I managed to pick up the pork, the fat and the casings at the market butcher near work. I planned to follow the Folse recipe, but before starting, I scoured my cookbooks, googled every permutation of Andouille i could think of, and generally looked to see what my options were. The options were bewilderingly varied. Folse's appealed due to its seeming purity of just a few, strongly flavoured ingredients, and I think should give me a good "standard" against which to compare later attempts. Some of the recipes i found were easily dismissable -- "hickory" "flavoured" "liquid" "smoke" -- but others might be worth pursuing later. Emeril's and Prudhomme's both show a massive number of different additions and seasonings (go to foodtv.com if you want to see emerils). Anyway, like I said, I got halfway there -- the sausage grinding and making. Tomorrow, finger's crossed, is the smoking. If you'd like to see progress so far, have a look. Critique welcome! In the end, i ground coarsely and didn't chop. And, probably went a bit heavy on the fat, the garlic and the pepper, than what was called for, but i still feel good about where things currently stand. Finished product soon!

I've hit the same dilemma scott123 ... i couldn't pay $8 lb. or $80/lb. or any other amount... since moving here to Australia years ago, there simply isn't any available, at least that I can find. For some inexplicable reason, cajun/creole culture somehow never really made its way to the other side of the planet. So I've been forced to do a bit of research, and came up with the Folse recipe as well, which is the one I think I'll try this weekend if i get the chance. I agree about the kielbasa. Lots of people were helpful to me when I was trying to sort out which sausage would work as an andouille substitute (here) … but it simply wasn’t the same. The bonus (assuming I can concoct a smoker full of acceptable andouille) is that I’ll be able to introduce a backyard full of Aussies to a fantastic new taste. Good luck, let us know how you go smokin your own / kanga

I literally drive past that address every morning and every night as well Dim Sim... and I have never seen or noticed it either! I am definitely going to have a look, what a great potential find. I've been schlepping out to Tulla for stuff from Aztec the last couple times, so this is a great development. As for growing fresh chiles, I can report major success with the only one I tried, which was fresh habaneros last summer. The plant didn't fruit til well into the summer (Feb from memory) but once it did, i got at least 20 beautiful bright orange chilis from it. Very heartening to see all the interest, replies, suggestions and posts on this topic. BTW Dim Sim, if you live/work out this way, maybe you've seen something called "Tres Tacos" (!!!) on, I think, Racecourse Road, just up from Flemington racecourse? I've seen it, but something keeps me from actually trying it out...

It is, I think, Los Amates. I haven't been, but when I was strolling down Johnston street last year, at the Spanish Festival thing, they had a storefront stand, and they were serving Gordas, with a great black bean topping/filling. try finding gordas at any mexican restaurant in Melbourne. It was enough to put them on my list, though as I've said, I haven't yet made it. I also looked at the menu at Bluecorn in St. Kilda once while walking by, and it looked good, different and legit mexicano, in a nouveau sort of way. Also plan to try it some year!

So, you just put the whole thing together as you would "normally" (as if you were going to slow cook it for hours in a smoker), and then just chuck it in a crock pot? Forgive my scepticism, but it seems like it would seriously be lacking something... not least of all the depth of flavour and bite from a long infusion of smoke. But also little bits of caramelised bark, or crust. Perhaps it could do for a depths-of-winter emergency approximation, but don't you end up with that crock-potty sort of limp insipidness that you generally find with most crockpot dishes other than soup?

I was irked... less that it was unavailable, but more because they presumed that the substitute of lamb was something we wanted, rather than just skipping the extra dish. She hemmed and hawed about it, then rushed to say how they'd "created" something "just as good" ... which in all likelihood wasn't. It was the presumption more than the act itself, but then, things don't always work out and that doesn't bother me. More dissapointed in the way it was handled, more so than the food itself. I didn't look to see if we were charged for a supplement that wasn't, as I just assumed it didn't happen, so the charge wouldn't happen... now I'm wondering? surely not.

Look, it's my own fault. I broke every single rule in the (well, my) book. Number one was agreeing to go there so early amidst the buzz. As you said Shinboners, wait til the others have moved on to the next seemingly big thing. And I also agree that rarely if ever do other patrons impose on my enjoyment or even notice, but this night, it was rife -- so much so that it was a palpable component of the night. No one's fault but my own (and the posers of course). I really do reckon that that onslaught of "too-much-money-too-little-sense" will fade very soon from Vue.... which is when the real opinions will be worth listening to. Curious if anyone else decides to have a look in the near future, if so please don't be shy to post your take on the place. One thing you do have to acknowledge, we're here talking about Vue de Monde and not others!

Pan! Reading this, I just realised/remembered that you had asked, and I had promised, to post my take on dinner at Li Family restaurant! One year ago now. Really sorry about that... I filed my photos and notes and never got it together. I still can, if you're interested, back on the thread, but the initial impressions would have seriously faded by now. Suffice it to say it was both fantastic and memorable. Interestingly, the Li "Family" has apparently branched out into the wider world, and a lucky coincidence (for me) is that a daughter has opened a "Li Family/Imperial Cuisine" restaurant here in Melbourne. LiLi's Have yet to try it but looks pretty much like exactly the same concept. Docsconz, back to topic, if your 15 yr old is the kind who would prefer a bit more Westerny 'flash' with his travels, maybe the area in Beijing around Beihei Lake would be interesting. There is plenty of street food and 'authentic Beijing' (to my tourist' eye) but heaps of bars, cafes, and general buzz as well. I can look back on my stuff and find specifics if you think he would be interested.

I sat down to jot out a few lines, and ended up with this! Here goes: Uhhhhh … I suppose it was pretty spectacular. I guess. Kinda. Sort of. It’s really hard to say. I can hear you already: "Whaddaya mean you ‘guess’ it was spectacular? Either it was or it wasn’t!!" It’s just that the place is so ramped with hype and opinion and the attendant aura of a Culinary Pissing Contest that an opinion "in a vacuum" is pretty well impossible. So the best I can offer is to try and divorce The Food from The Experience. Depending on your perspective, then, you too might equivocate. To me, and only me, the food was spectacular. The Experience was less so. But then, I like Food, and am not all that keen on Experiences, in restaurants at least. THE FOOD 7 courses. Let the sommelier pair the wines. Didn’t take notes, and I noticed early on a strong internal resistance to "internalising the experience", so going from memory, almost certainly wrong about various bits. 1. Amuse was … I forget. Barramundi? Wagyu? Something. Heh heh. Potato foam and a drizzle of truffle oil. Fairly unamusing, but I was distracted by other things (see The Experience, below). 2. A decent porcini Risotto, porcini emulsion and powdered mushroom. Not unbeatable, but very very good. 3. Foie Gras, caramelised apples, peeled grapes and walnuts and a Sauternes sauce. I wouldn’t know if it had been imported, exported, pasteurised or from a bird raised in the backroom and slaughtered earlier that day, so won’t weigh in on that debate. But it was absolutely superb. 4. Snow crab, spinach and sorrel, small dice of apple, truffle butter sauce… I couldn’t hear the waitress describe everything on the plate, but each dish was getting better than the one before… absolutely wonderful. 5. Basil sorbet, with a shot of a clear tomato consommé and a few cubes of gelled tomato at bottom. Effective and different cleanser. 6. The "cassoulet/vol au vent", on top of a white-bean puree, I think I remember a tasty bit of pork belly on top, a cylinder of duck confit, a cylinder of seared duck breast and a cylindrical duck sausage, all lined up. A stand-out for me, absolutely the highlight. 7. We had been offered, and accepted, a supp of Wagyu beef, and were looking forward to it. We were told (after having to ask if it was still coming) that the beef was finished for the night, but that they had arranged something else: a seared lamb/crisp eggplant/babaganoush/couscous dish that was fine, if not overly memorable. No dessert. OK that was the food, like I said, spectacular, and the wines all matched perfectly. What was going on inside the mouth could not be faulted in any substantial way. The food that night is up there with/comparable in taste and skill to many other of the best I've had in my previous life in NYC (the best 5 years ago at least: Jean-Georges, Gramercy Tavern, etc.). THE "EXPERIENCE" BUT… I remain seriously unconvinced. As good as the food was, the overall "experience" wasn’t spectacular – precisely because the restaurant and its patrons were so giddy on their own spectacularness. It seriously detracted from the night for me. How so? • There was this fresh faced group of eight late-20s-early-30ish next to us who were just shitting themselves with glee that they nabbed a table and saved up their allowance and Look At Us We’re Eating At Vue de Monde!! • I suppose you’d have to address the issue of cost in the "Experience" column … all I can say is that, while going to VdeM isn’t difficult for us to afford, that doesn’t mean it’s not a consideration, in the context of value. In that context, I maybe found it a bit too expensive, but then I find pretty much all ‘fine dining’ too expensive, so that’s probably my personal quirk. It’s still a bucket of cash to charge for a few hours enjoyment, but what top-end restaurant doesn’t? Plus, as good as the food was, it's not inconceivable of others in town pulling off the calibre of these dishes just as well (though not the same experience), probably for slightly fewer dollars. • Our table’s wine steward had this constant, I mean incessant, too-knowing smirk plastered permanently on her face, so while her spoken words were never condescending, her body language was. You wouldn’t win your case in court against her, because the ‘facts’ weren’t there to prove her guilt… but make no mistake, she was guilty as. Think Annette Bening. • And: this couple waltzes in and by our table cooing to one another "Look!! They have our chairs! Ooh, and our lighting too!!" Squeals and peals of self-delight. These are not people I wanted sitting anywhere near me. On one hand, I fully realise that I can’t fault the restaurant for these garish guests, but on the other hand, the whole place reeks of this … Smug. Self-satisfied. The charge of "Sydneyfication" mentioned upthread seems perfectly apt. Does that kind of stuff impact on your enjoyment? It does mine. I don’t fault the guy. He’s out to make great food (which he clearly does), and he’s out to make several bucks from the "Oooh, our kind of place Hon!" set. Which he will. So, sorry everyone, I’m not going to make the final call. Just depends on your tastes. Some people like food "experiences." Other people like great food. I liked the food. Really liked it. Edit to rectify "peels" to "peals" -- though there's a certain appropriateness to the erroneous spelling huh...

Is Vodka sauce for pasta merely a decent tomato sauce/napoli (I think it's called Napoli in the US... or maybe Marinara? I can never remember), adding a bit of vodka and cream? Is there any more to it than that? I had it just once... I'm also curious if you would find Vodka sauce with any frequency in Italy, or if it is more of an American interpretation of Italian. Does anyone know?