kangarool

Thank you, Qing, I will definitely attempt to find it and give it a try. I'm packing my digital camera, so will post some shots if I manage to locate the restaurant... thanks for the tip!

I'm staying at Bamboo Garden Hotel, near Bell and Drum Tower (I think? going from memory from what I read in guidebook). In Hutong area, if I'm not mistaken. As for Li Family Restaurant dishes, I jumped the gun on your review, and googled it, to find a list of menus offered and dishes served, here. Judging from the menus, it looks like your enthusiasm isn't misplaced... (edited to add link)

Welcome back Pan! It sounds as if you had a great trip, and I'm anxiously awaiting your detailed report, as I fly to BJ this coming Friday (1 week in BJ before heading to Cambodia for another week). I especially look forward to the Li Family Restaurant review, as it was obviously a highlight of your trip. That, and any other recommendations of yours that I could track down while there would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks for the warning Gusto; the dish in question was cleared and given the go ahead by the attendees, several years ago when they visited me in New York. I introduced them to some fantastic southern, texan and midwestern dishes and specialties ... restaurants serving them were fairly rife in Greenwich village and the East Village and West village, back then. So we did the tour of Great Jones Cafe (gumbo), Cottonwood Cafe (brisket), and southern pulled pork sandwiches and barbequed pork ribs (Brother's BBQ). they've been converts ever since, and have been pleading for me to attempt a recreation. The sauces and rubs we had then and that I'm most fond of are the less-sweet ones that get more flavour from good spices and long smoking, so I'm with you on that one. And Fi Fi La More, thanks for the show of support... I've found a couple butchers that seem to be able to help me out, so I'll let you know how we go. Too bad you're not in Melbourne, or I'd invite you around for the brisket extravaganza! /kanga

Thanks for the advice, i'll have another look in Footscray Market today... someone had mentioned flank to me, but when I had a look there was no apparent fat whatsoever, so I feared for how well a long smoking would turn out. I'll have another look today, but barring that, do you happen to know which Vic Market butcher you bought from? I make a regular Saturday morning pilgrimage, so will track down any promising leads.

Funny you should mention that: I was almost tempted to purchase a piece of Silverside (another term I've learned since moving here, I don't remember hearing this name in the States) and see what happened, but then I saw it had been wrapped and 'corned' already, so I'm pretty sure I simply would have ended up with Smoked Corned Beef. Not a bad thing, probably, but not what I've promised a bunch of blokes. Spoonbread, I forgot to mention that I remember hearing a butcher I spoke to mention 'chuck' as well, which fits with your suggestion. And looking at the chart on the link, they sit next to one another on the cow, so it's looking like that could be the right direction to head for the next investigation. thanks for the beef tips!

I'm heading to the footy on Saturday with a few mates, and thought that I'd introduce them all to a bit of my favourite Americana, slow-smoked beef brisket sandwiches and beer at my house afterward. But I've already hit an unanticipated snag in my plan: I can't find the cut of beef that I know in the US as "beef brisket" at several butchers that I've visited. Most look at me with a bit of puzzled look. Other responses included: "I have some brisket bones, if you want them, but there's no meat on them" (Andrew's Meat, Yarraville) ... "We don't sell it, you'd be better off with a better cut of meat" (Jonathons, collingwood) ... "Yes this is it" (pointing to Flank Steak, which I think looked pretty close, but there was 0 fat on it, so I shied away... (Footscray market) ... and "We can get it, but you have to order it in a week ahead of time" (another local butcher in Yarraville). So, I'm a tad confused, but I'm certain that it must be around. A cow's a cow, right? It must be a naming-convention thing, yeah? (I've looked on the web, but no luck.) But if so, then what? Or is "brisket" really so unpopular that it's simply not bothered to be sold to butchers?

So, time allowed me to get halfway through the Tang Bao recipe; I was able to make the filling last night, with Pork Belly and chinese cabbage. Followed Ms. Lin’s instructions and the result was as good as I good have hoped: a wonderfully flavourful result, rich, smooth, a little tangy… great. Best of all, it set overnight in the fridge to the consistency hoped for: gelatinous enough that it should be easily placed as a solid into the dough, once made. As for Tang Bao vs. Xiao Long Bao, I was still a bit curious and confused about the difference, and tracked this down, if you’re interested. chinadaily.com article Mind you, Florence Lin’s filling that I made for what she calls Tang Bao tastes exactly, precisely like every filling I’ve ever had for Xiao Long Bao. But regardless, it does seem that there's a key difference in the dough/wrapper, as aprilmei has pointed out. Anyway. I’m probably going on too much about it all, but it’s much more fun than doing work.

Hmmm. Now I'm confused too... do you reckon that I'm assuming (incorrectly) that F. Lin's dumpings are the same dumplings that I'm thinking of (which I'm definitely thinking of xiao long bao) -- given the differences in the name, the different geographical reference in the cookbook that Gary noted, and the differences in the dough that you're noting?

In the cookbook, she sort of qualifies it (the dough). She says "Traditionally, one should mix two kinds of dough: a yeast dough and a hot-water dough and combine them into one, so that the dough is still tender, but strong enough to hold the broth inside the bun. I have simplified the method, putting the leavening in one dough only, and you can achieve the same quality." The dough portion of the recipe then calls for flour, sugar, baking powder and warm water. Never having made them before, it reads to me as if she's trying to make it easy on the novice, trying to get the wrapper reasonably close the real deal, but that there's probably a better (but more-involved) traditional process. Just as an aside, I think I remember reading once that Joe's Shanghai in New York's Chinatown makes their juicy buns so juicy (and so yummy) by actually INJECTING even more broth into the completed dumpling before steaming. Now that's commitment!

It’s true aprilmei, the (chinese) name in the F. Lin cookbook isn’t "Xiao Long Bao" … but it is "Tang Bao". Her English phrase for the recipe is "Steamed Juicy Buns" so i figured it was the recipe I was thinking of. She starts it by saying "These are the famous Yangzhou steamed juicy buns...". Another site I found by Googling mentions that the little juicy buns are called various names (in Chinese), including: Xiao Long Tang Bao Show loong tong bow Hsiao lung t'ang pao Xiao long tang bao The "tang pao" and bao at the end of all of them suggests it’s same dumpling different name? The filling called for is simply pork, cabbage, ginger, stock, sugar, soy. ?? (edited to correct)

Thanks Gary, your post has convinced me that the old school approach is the way to go on my first attempt; i can always tinker afterward to gauge results. As a side note, the only bit in the Florence Lin recipe I have that differs from your advice, is that she suggests cooking all the filling ingredients (that is, both the gelled liquid ingredients along with the ground pork meat and cabbage) all together... but your post suggests doing them separately. I actually am more persuaded by your advice to keep them separate, in order to get two different tastes/textures in that first wonderful bite. Would you cook the pork belly skin, stock and ginger together for the liquid (and then allowed to gel), and the pork meat and cabbage together, combining them together only at 'wrapper time'?

Bad news: since moving house, my weekly (occasionally daily) fix of steamed little juicy buns are no longer within striking distance. Good news: I’m now forced to tackle making them myself. While the recipes I’ve found are pretty straightforward, I’m fully prepared that the trick will be in the finesse. But before I get to that stage, I have found one point of discrepancy in the various recipes I’ve come across: to gel or not to gel. Many/most recipes call for the inclusion of additionally-added gelatin. But my Florence Lin "Chinese Noodles, Dumplings and Breads" (which is almost always reliable) just calls for a long simmer of chopped pork belly & skin. The skin is removed, and the remaining filling and liquid is supposed to gelatinise sufficiently after refrigeration. Can anyone advise if I should follow a recipe that calls for gelatin added to the stock ... or simply let the ingredients firm themselves up after cooling, enough to then wrap? Obviously, the main objective is for the juiciest and most flavoursome dumplings the universe has ever known. Thanks everyone/kanga

Hi everyone, I’ll be travelling to Cambodia for a lookaround a bit later this year, and haven’t come across much in eGullet to recommend or dis-recommend much there, in terms of restaurants and/or culinary investigations. Any experts on the Kingdom lurking about? My time is short, so will be limited to the obvious: PP and Siem Riep. In terms of knowledge of the cuisine, and what I hope to find there, I willingly plead ignorance. Though I can readily find my way around a Vietnamese or Thai menu, haven't quite sorted out what I should start thinking about w/r/t Cambodia. I’ve gone through the Lonely Planet (2002 ed.), but LP rarely has much relevant about the food of a place. And, given that Cambodian/Khmer is far, far less frequently represented than its neighbours, in terms of restaurants to go and introduce yourself to its staples and explore variations, (if you can find a Cambodian restaurant at all), then I only have words to go on. Which is where you come in.

Where are you located, markk? That will help other people in your area point you in the right direction, to some restaurants in your region to try some good stuff. If you want to start at the very beginning, my favourite Malaysian starter is a simple, hot Roti Canai with a spicy curry dipping sauce. Another staple that is an all time fave is Char Kuey Teow, fried wide rice noodles with pork, bean shoots (sprouts), onion, chilli in a dark soy sauce. bliss... a bit of roti, some noodles, extra chilli and an ice cold Tiger beer... one of the most basic Malaysian concoctions, and the best. Good luck, it's a cuisine well worth exploring.

Solve my jiaozi problems SOON? After the subatomic-particle-physics level that Project suggests?? Seriously though, thanks for the link to that topic, I hadn't come across it before. It's good fun, and there really is some hugely helpful advice and tips in there. I suppose the main question I'm left with is, how different are "Shandong jiaozi" compared with any others? I'm guessing that boiled or potsticker dumplings I've had in restaurants in New York are Cantonese style (I say that only because I'm presuming most basic dishes offered at "everyday" chinese restaurants in NY are Cantonese based - could be completely off base there), so I'm wondering if there's a difference in key ingredients or preparation with Shandong style. My knowledge about regional differences in Chinese cuisine is extremely limited — probably apparent to most on this board —, so am just curious if there's a new taste treat out there waiting for me to discover! PS I think my post is still relatively on topic, but am happy to move to the Steamed Dumpling topic if it's more relevant there.

Right, no worries, I completely understand and would very likely respond similarly to a request for most of my favourite "recipes" as well. You just know them, and you can't really show them, usually. The mince-it-yourself is good advice. I'll start trying to improve my dumplings by improving my pork. You're right, my three-year-old daughter will indeed enjoy the wrapping bit... come to think of it, it's probably a good time to start working on her skills with a Chinese cleaver, too.

Gary, would you (your wife, rather) possibly be willing to share the recipe? I understand if she'd prefer not to divulge a secret, though... I've been disappointed with the jiaozi I've made myself, compared with those I find from restaurants, and am curious how/if Shandong style differ from those I know. Plus, I am always looking for tips that might help me get them closer to those I love. I think it's probably most to do with the minced pork I generally use... I've bought it, already minced, and usually from Safeway-calibre supermarkets, so I'm sure that pork is more bland and overly lean, compared to the pork used in the tastier ones. There's a wintry weekend forecast, so I've already planned to crank up a fire in the fireplace and introduce my daughter to dumpling making.

I love egullet. Step 1: Post question. Step 2: Go to bed. Step 3: Awake to a half dozen literate, informative and helpful replies. How easy is that! Thanks everyone. Looks like Kielbasa might work, but the ones I’ve had do seem a bit less richly flavoured than the andouille’s I remember. And you’re right, NolaFoodie, that it might ‘grease up’ my gumbo, and I’m already heavy-handed enough on overdoing the fats. And you’re also spot on with the Tasso comment. Love it, but the closest legit Tasso to Melbourne Australia would have to be a few thousand km over a very large body of water. From the replies, though, it seems like you’re all suggesting that the smokiness is the key, more so than the specific sausage-expression of it, so that alone should help me track down the best substitute. I'll track down some smoked ham and see how I go.

Ben, no feathers ruffled whatsoever (if I’m correct in presuming your comment was posted primarily for my benefit), indeed, it was fully anticipated. I suppose I should have qualified my comment with the fact that I'm wholly cognizant that my preference for the taste/flavour of what I refer to as "congee" may not totally, or even partially, resemble what you refer to as authentic jook/chuk/chou/congee. In fact, I'm 100% aware that congee is to canvas as additional ingredients are to paint. But I was asking about something non-authentic (presumably) and, as you pointed out, adapted to my preference and taste, not to authentic reproduction. I guess it just seemed more reasonable to post the sincere query on this thread, rather than starting a new topic along the lines of "I’m Looking For Help in Developing a Hybrid Soup & Jook/Chuk/Chou/Congee Concoction That I Acknowledge Isn’t 100% Pure & Unadulterated Jook/Chuk/Chou/Congee But Still Has Significantly Similar Properties and Construction That One Might Reasonably Think It’s A Variation On Jook/Chuk/Chou/Congee But Still With Enough Souplike Properties That One Would Also Immediately Acknowledge That It Isn’t Just Jook/Chuk/Chou/Congee." As I said, no feathers ruffled at all, mate.

I’ve always loved making gumbos, and have gotten to the point where I’m very pleased with the my concoctions – most of them are pretty basic, traditional gumbos. But I moved from the U.S. sometime ago, and authentic Southern US ingredients are not in ready supply – in fact, pretty much non-existent. One of the key, basic ingredients I love to add to my gumbos is: andouille. The good news is, I have a feeling that "andouille," or something very satifsfactorily similar exists here in Melbourne – even if under a different name. I say that because, there’s a huge selection here of European (both mediterranean and eastern) sausages, smoked and cured meats, deli items, etc etc, pretty much everywhere you turn. The main market in Melbourne, Queen Victoria Market, has a staggeringly fantastic amount of choice: Italian, French, Hungarian, Polish, Greek, Turkish … truly bountiful. So I wonder if someone can help me find the closest equivalent to andouille, from these or other cultures. Never having made it, I’m not sure of any very-specifically-Southern U.S. spices or additions that go into the real thing, but even leaving those aside, what’s the next closest beast? Italian Cotechino? Polish Kielbasa? French garlic sausage? Spanish chorizo? I’m not totally up on which (if any) of these kinds of sausages are smoked, like an andouille is. Thanks for any help you can provide everyone.

Does anyone have any ideas or advice on how I might get my congee a bit … tastier? I wrote a post asking precisely the same thing as kai-chan's post, and I saw tankichi's follow-up... but I question if it's simply a matter of the chicken fat. Every recipe I follow, I always find the same result… that the congee isn’t bad, but noticeably more on the side of "bland" rather than flavoursome. I know that, by definition, a congee isn’t ever going to be a an eyebrow-raising powerpack of flavour, but, mine always seem more watery and thin than the kind I like, that I've have in restaurants. I’m either choosing the wrong recipes to try, or I’m missing something. The reason I’m posting now, in fact, is that I was out til way late last night drinking with some mates, and since we were next door to Chinatown, we popped into our favourite restaurant for a 3 a.m. snack. I chose a preserved duck egg and pork congee, along with some chinese doughnut alongside, and it was perfect. There really was a lot of flavour, and not just from the egg, pork, or fried doughnut – the soup itself was really tasty. I’ve made it before with just water, with just chicken stock, with prawn stock, different rices, lots of salt, little salt, different ratios of rice to liquid, but still haven't found what I'm jooking for. The only other clue I can provide, is that the congees I like often have a really creamy texture, but obviously not from any dairy product. And the creaminess doesn’t seem to just come from the broken down rice kernals/starches …. There’s a different kind of smoothness to them that I’ve just not been able to replicate. As I said, I’m clearly missing something. Any other help? Kai-chan, have you had any further luck with your congees or questions to the expert?

It’s not fair! Finally, a topic I have a modicum of authority on, and the article in question isn’t accessible this (southern hemisphere) morning. So, I can’t read it, but the gist is clear enough (and why let the absence of facts get in the way of smug pontification?) Maybe the server’s overloaded with all the egulleteers’ hits on this critical issue. Anyway. With all humility, my credentials: • Born and raised in Kansas (pretty much a Tora-Bora-calibre breeding ground of Culinary Terrorism) • Next 15 years eating and snacking my way around Manhattan • Next 10 here in Melbourne I had this long-winded, self-important diatribe in the works, wherein I’d crap on about how American snacks and mass-marketed U.S. foods are typically not merely perceived by the rest of the world, but indeed are — in an absolute, non-relativistic sense — weird. But then I imagined the onslaught and vitriol that would no doubt ensue, so instead I’ll just get straight to it and say that Potato Cakes and Dim Sims are orders of magnitude better than Pork Rinds or "Pop Tarts". Not just "better," but better to the same degree that Coopers Sparkling is superior to Coors Light. And that that degree is incalculable.

Tissue, is there any particular reason why the star anise goes in the blanching instead of braising liquid? I watched my ex roommate's dad cook it like this. And it came out delicious. I think he left the star anise (he had it in a spice pack tied up with cheesecloth)in there after pouring out the blanching water and rinsing the belly really well. I think the whole point of it was to get rid of any bloody flavor. If you have any leftover brasing liquid, I recommend using it to braise some chicken legs and chicken wings. I always save the liquid to braise the chicken because it makes the sauce taste better. I like to toss noodles with some of the sauce and garnish with chopped cilantro. And if you still have leftover braising liquid after that, some tofu and various tofu products. Make sure to blanch the tofu products before braising but you don't have to with chicken. Oh yeah, the tofu products change the flavor of the liquid. So you can't braise meat anymore in it because the taste will be off. Yeah you can really get a lot out of this sauce. Taste and reseason each time accordingly, if it's too salty, dilute with water. It should be saltier though, so whatever you are cooking isn't bland, especially stuff like tofu squares or tofu skin (yuba). Since I've praised this braising liquid so much I would just like to note that you the orginal liquid should be proportionate to the size of the pork belly you are cooking, which is just barely covering it. Or else the belly will come out ok but the sauce might be not as flavorful and just like soy sauce and water. Thanks tissue, this looks like the recipe I've been looking for, for my inaugural pork belly cooking. What kind of texture does the belly end up with, after the braising? The ones I love most in restaurants are those that are succulently soft overall, but with a great crisped skin… would I need to do more, after the braising, to get the skin crisp? I don’t presume you’d end up with the skin very crisp after the braising, but I’m not sure what I would do to get it? I'd love any advice anyone can give...

Susan, as I'm sure many others will point out, not only is slurping noodles from the bowl with chopsticks NOT impolite, it's a show of great appreciation of the dish... the louder and noiser the better! As your signature says, "Life is short" ... so jump in and slurp away, it's the only way to really enjoy the dish the way it's meant.