Wine by the glass service in restaurants

[jsmeeker]

I'm not as experienced in as many fine dining experiences as other eGullters, but I've had my share of different experiences that prompted this thread. Originally, I thought about putting it in the wine forum, but this is less about the actual wine and more about the service.

The main topic is how is the glass of wine brought to the table when ordering by the glass. In virtually all cases, in my experience, a server simply brings a glass full of wine and sets it down. But a few times, I've had the server come over with an empty glass and the bottle of wine. They present the wine, then proceed to pour a small taste, then pour a full pour. Another time, the sommelier came with a tray with several glass and the bottle. (this was during a tasting menu with wine pairings meal). I actually like this level of service. Since experiencing it, I get a disappointed when go to a high end fine dining place that simple brings over the glass of wine already poured.

Is this service a little over the top? Is it "snooty"??

[bandregg]

I've never really given a lot of thought to wine by the glass service, but I really like the idea of presenting the wine in the bottle and then pouring the glass. This requires some level of training and trust by the bartender or whoever is ultimately responsible for the inventory, but it sounds worth it to me.

[TJHarris]

I have had several experiences where I was presented with a glass already filled and the wine was not what was ordered (a couple of times I believe that it was not accidental). Any more, I demand to see the glass poured. There are some places that would label me as a difficult customer. I just like to get what I am paying for.

[markk]

I have had several experiences where I was presented with a glass already filled and the wine was not what was ordered (a couple of times I believe that it was not accidental).  Any more, I demand to see the glass poured. 

If you can tell that the wine served wasn't the one ordered, why do you need to see it poured from the bottle? I should explain - I don't mean this as a nasty or sarcastic comment one bit. I'm curious though. Before I say why I'm curious, I'm hoping you'll answer.

This happens to me a lot with varietals; I get brought a glass of a different grape than I ordered (even in France where we're not ordering by the grape). Sometimes it can be a legitmate mistake, and other times it's deliberate (I know this because people have confessed). So I'm wonderng why you say that.

[JohnL]

I have had several experiences where I was presented with a glass already filled and the wine was not what was ordered (a couple of times I believe that it was not accidental).   Any more, I demand to see the glass poured.  

If you can tell that the wine served wasn't the one ordered, why do you need to see it poured from the bottle? I should explain - I don't mean this as a nasty or sarcastic comment one bit. I'm curious though. Before I say why I'm curious, I'm hoping you'll answer.

This happens to me a lot with varietals; I get brought a glass of a different grape than I ordered (even in France where we're not ordering by the grape). Sometimes it can be a legitmate mistake, and other times it's deliberate (I know this because people have confessed). So I'm wonderng why you say that.

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I am confused.

I hadn't realized that these problems exist in wine by the glass service.

Pouring the wine from the bottle at the table is a nice touch, especially if the wines offered by the glass are a cut above the usual selection of house wines.

Normally, the bottle is presented when ordering a full bottle to let the customer see what he or she is buying and to ensure that they are getting the wine they specifically ordered. The problem encountered most here is often a vintage different than the one ordered (rarely if ever is the wrong wine mistakenly brought).

I would also add another area that many customers often overlook--the condition of the bottle and the fill level.

When ordering by the glass, if the wines are basic house wines anything more than bringing a glass of the wine could be a bit pretentious. Having the customer "inspect" a bottle already open, of an unpretentious house wine is, well, pretentious, IMOP. it also is a possible reminder that the restaurant is serving an inexpensive wine at a high by the glass mark up.

I wonder why a restaurant would "deliberately" bring the wrong wine by the glass? What's in it for them?

[piperdown]

I wonder why a restaurant would "deliberately" bring the wrong wine by the glass? What's in it for them?

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Serving a cheaper wine than ordered. I don't know what's in it for the server, but the restaurant would save on cost if the person didn't notice. Oh course this is usually only true if the restaurant has a lot of wines by the glass.

Personally, I always like to see the bottle before I get a glass, and this is the way we do it at the restaurant I work at. Sometimes they pour a taste, and sometimes not (depends on the server, although if ordering at the bar, this is always done).That way the customer knows they are getting the right wine, and also so they can see the bottle if they are interested in the brand.

If I had been poured the wrong glass before, I could see wanting to see the bottle in future restaurants because it just saves the hassle of possibly complaining, and makes the situation easier for everyone, since I hate having to complain about something in a restaurant, it just sets a tone I don't like to deal with.

[markk]

I wonder why a restaurant would "deliberately" bring the wrong wine by the glass? What's in it for them?

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I'll give you one example. There was a restaurant I used to go to year after year in Strasbourg (France). The people would change from year to year but the place was the same, and they always had a more than decent red Bordeaux by the glass, though it may have changed from year to year depending, but it was always similar in drinking. One year when it was served with my duck course, it wasn't a Bordeaux! So I told the waitress, and she said that it was. I said that it wasn't. She went to the bartender and came back and told me that it was. I protested, showed her the color at the very least, and told her it didn't taste or look like a Bordeaux and she said that it was, albeit a "light" one. Then they closed for a few days for Christmas. When I returned after the closing and ordered my meal, when I got to the meat/duck course I was about to order something when she sheepishly said to me, "that wasn't a Bordeaux after all the other night, you were right. The bartender didn't want to open a fresh bottle right before we were closing so he gave you an Alsace Pinot Noir that he had open because he thought that after so much white wine you wouldn't know the difference".

So that answers what's in it for them, restaurants, that is.

Over the years there, I had once been served a Pinot Blanc that wasn't (they were embarrased when I caught it), and years later (the year of the Bordeaux incident above) I ordered a Pinot Gris with one particular course, and what was in the glass was clearly a dry Gewurztraminer. I made a large, dramatic, but very good natured stink about how often they do this, because though I was tipsy, I was on very sure ground because of what a Gewurztraminer tastes like, even a dry one. When the manager came over, he had only to smell the glass before he apologized profusely and went to chew people out.

But a restaurant not wanting to open a new bottle for a glass if it's right before closing, or a restaurant being out of a wine and making an unannounced substitution because it's quicker and easier, or perhaps a restaurant deciding to substitute a cheaper wine for a customer they don't think will know the difference - these are all possible answers to what's in it for them.

[JohnL]

I wonder why a restaurant would "deliberately" bring the wrong wine by the glass? What's in it for them?

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Serving a cheaper wine than ordered. I don't know what's in it for the server, but the restaurant would save on cost if the person didn't notice. Oh course this is usually only true if the restaurant has a lot of wines by the glass.

Personally, I always like to see the bottle before I get a glass, and this is the way we do it at the restaurant I work at. Sometimes they pour a taste, and sometimes not (depends on the server, although if ordering at the bar, this is always done).That way the customer knows they are getting the right wine, and also so they can see the bottle if they are interested in the brand.

If I had been poured the wrong glass before, I could see wanting to see the bottle in future restaurants because it just saves the hassle of possibly complaining, and makes the situation easier for everyone, since I hate having to complain about something in a restaurant, it just sets a tone I don't like to deal with.

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Thanks.

I still find it hard to believe a place would be so chintzy as to try to squeeze a buck or two out of a glass of already highly marked up wine! I would guess places like this have no problem serving "scallops" punched out of skate wings!

Cheeesh!

Also you bring up a nice aspect of pouring the glass from a bottle at the table. allowing the customer a "taste" of the wine before pouring the full glass is a very nice touch.

[ludja]

I have had several experiences where I was presented with a glass already filled and the wine was not what was ordered (a couple of times I believe that it was not accidental).  Any more, I demand to see the glass poured.  There are some places that would label me as a difficult customer.  I just like to get what I am paying for.

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Have you figured out a graceful way to ask for this service?

(I appreciate it when restaurants do this as well, but I haven't found many places that offer the service.)

Thanks in advance!

[godito]

"Mistakes" in wine by the glass ar not at all uncommon, and they are, most times, a management issue (unless they really are mistakes).

As for the service itself, here in Chile it's becoming quite fashionable to have a Wine Dispenser, that is, wines on display with controled temperature and pressure, attached to a nozzle that "dispenses" wine directly to the glass.

In my experience, if you chose carefully which wines to serve by the glass, you don't really have a high risk of them going bad. However, I love the opportunity to have them inside my controled environment where they will last for up to a month (although very few wines last that long, and when they do, it's time to realize that you just shouldn't be offering them by the glass)

The problem with this is that you really shouldn't take the bottle out to show it to the customer when he orders it. This is why the bottles are on a glass display. However, not every sit on the house has a view of the bar (wine dispenser)

In any case, if you can trust the restaurant won't be making "mistakes", there is a better alternative to them just bringing you the full glass form the bar. They could bring it in a small flask (or a personal size decanter) and pour it inside the glass if front of you.

[Trishiad]

Okay, so my first question is: What is high end? What kind of wine prices qualify as high end?

My second question is: Are you all saying that if I'm serving a six-top and five order wine (often different wine) that I should be expected to bring a tray with 5 bottles and 5 glasses, pour each guest a taste, wait, and then a full pour?

[Basildog]

We pour wine by the glass at the table, same with carafes.Let people taste.It takes 2 mins, but worth the effort.

Another reason, less important, but we are a very small bistro, and i'm not keen on serving staff walking around with full glasses, accident waiting to happen.

[TJHarris]

In regards to my previous comments, I have had a number of experiences where I have recieved the wrong varietal or wines from the wrong continent. I believe that on at least two occasions the server or bartender had simply grabbed the wrong bottle. On another occasion, the server confessed that they were out of the wine I had ordered and the owner had told her not to tell me of the substitution (I haven't been back since).

[Basildog]

Okay, so my first question is:  What is high end?  What kind of wine prices qualify as high end?

My second question is:  Are you all saying that if I'm serving a six-top and five order wine (often different wine) that I should be expected to bring a tray with 5 bottles and 5 glasses, pour each guest a taste, wait, and then a full pour?

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Does that happen alot? Bigger tables having wines by the glass.

[Trishiad]

The place I've been working in is a wine bar and restaurant. We offer both 2 oz and 5 oz pours. We do sell bottles as well but part of the fun is ordering different things. We serve small flights also.

Our reds are dispensed from the frou frou wine keeper, our whites are simply poured. As a server, I would rather carry a tray with 5 full glasses than a tray with 5 empty glasses and various carafes or bottles.

I should say that we are in a small town with a slightly different attitude about things and perhaps we just rely less on ceremony.

[Basildog]

I,m sure different sytems for different places is what it is all about.We are a 22 cover Bistro with only about 10 wines served by the glass, and only one server.

[Fat Guy]

Pouring wine from the bottle does not prevent willful deception. It's just not that hard to fill an empty bottle with any old wine. So I think this part of the justification is not compelling. Displaying the bottle can insure against mistakes, though.

It's also a good way to let the customer sample the wine before committing to the sale -- and that's just good customer relations. (The purpose of the taste, in a by-the-glass scenario, is not so much to detect if the wine is corked, oxidized, etc. -- it's more to see if you like it).

[markk]

Pouring wine from the bottle does not prevent willful deception. It's just not that hard to fill an empty bottle with any old wine. So I think this part of the justification is not compelling. Displaying the bottle can insure against mistakes, though.

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Huh? If they've refilled an empty bottle with any old wine, how does displaying the bottle prevent mistakes? That they might pour the wrong fake wine? I think the only guarantee of the right wine is a sealed bottle opened in front of the customer, which of course you can't do each time a glass in needed. And as far as a place wilfully filling empty bottles of more expensive wine with cheaper wine, that's quite a commitment to fraud on their part - I think (do I mean hope?) that substitutions would happen on a less regular basis, and for reasons that I gave earlier. Of course, if the substituted wine is the same alcoholic strength as the bottle's label, they're not in "Liquor License" danger.

But...

Are you all saying that if I'm serving a six-top and five order wine (often different wine) that I should be expected to bring a tray with 5 bottles and 5 glasses, pour each guest a taste, wait, and then a full pour?

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It's just a question of how honest and ethical the restaurant is and what their commitment to their customers is. If I trust that you're not going to try to substitute cheaper or different wine than I ordered, and that you're going to take some care when you grab the bottle to get the correct one, then I certainly don't care if you just carry filled glasses to the table.

[Fat Guy]

If the restaurant wants to defraud you it doesn't make a difference whether or not the bottle is presented, because you can just bring a bottle with the wrong wine in it. If the restaurant is honest, presenting the bottle is a non-issue with respect to preventing fraud, however it can help prevent mistakes.

[Alchemist]

I allways offer a taste if some one is eating at my bar and the wine is being paired with a specific course, especialy if I reccomended the wine in question. The only obnoxious thing is if I open the bottle in front of some people they get all freaked out and say "I only wanted a glass". But most folks really like the extra little ritual.

It's easy to do at the bar, but I can see it could be a huge pain in the ass for a server on the floor.

If you ask nicely most servers will bring you the bottle to look at so you can recognize it in the future.

[markk]

If the restaurant wants to defraud you it doesn't make a difference whether or not the bottle is presented, because you can just bring a bottle with the wrong wine in it. If the restaurant is honest, presenting the bottle is a non-issue with respect to preventing fraud, however it can help prevent mistakes.

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Gotcha. (Thanks). I would have added though that if I trust the server or bartender (that she's stopping to look at the bottle she's grabbing to be sure it's the right one), then she doesn't have to go so far as to bring me the bottle as well, in my own case. But yes, the more eyes that check something, the smaller the chance for error.

And on a separate note, I would say that when substitutions occur, for whatever reason, whether fraud, or the occurrence that they're out of a particular bottle they need that moment, for example, they're banking heavily on the idea that most customers can't distinguish one wine from another. I know like a gazillion people who order "a glass of merlot" and wouldn't know if they were brought something else red, and if they didn't like it, would think that that partcular "merlot" wasn't one they like. Numerically, I'd guess the chances of a restaurant getting away with this are astronomical.

This gets bad when you order a wine to try, let's say a chateau or winery that you've heard about, and they substitute another of the same region, but a different producer. It'd be quite a feat for a customer to know that he got one winery's wine over another, especially in the case where he didn't know it but was ordering it to familiarize himself with it. (This would be one of the major reasons I'd order wines by the glass.) That'd be especially lousy of them to do.

[jsmeeker]

Okay, so my first question is:  What is high end?  What kind of wine prices qualify as high end?

My second question is:  Are you all saying that if I'm serving a six-top and five order wine (often different wine) that I should be expected to bring a tray with 5 bottles and 5 glasses, pour each guest a taste, wait, and then a full pour?

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The place where they brought the glasses to the table along with the bottle, then poured was Craft in Dallas. It was just me and my dining companion. We had the same wine for 2 out of three courses. Also, at the French Room in Dallas.

The place where they brought the bottle on a tray with glasses (already filled, in most cases IIRC) was at Michael Mina in Las Vegas. There were four of us at the table drinking wine. This was a tasting menu thing with wine paitings, so everyone had the same wine.

Edited March 6, 2007 by jsmeeker (log)