Eliminating vodka from my cabinet

[Kent Wang]

I know many of you are also vodka haters. Have you had success minimizing the use of vodka or completely eliminating it from your cabinets?

The only vodka cocktails that I make are White Russians and Bloody Marys. I think I can use white rum in the White Russian and maybe gin or tequila in the Bloody Mary.

[Dave the Cook]

I'd give up White Russians altogether, but if you like them, I'm not sure rum will suit -- at least not white rum. The vodka is in the recipe simply to lengthen the Kahlua and strengthen the proof, and the floral notes of a good white rum might be disruptive. If you want to try it, I'd suggest a dark rum; the molasses undertones might be interesting with the coffee -- a little like using brown or turbinado in your cup of joe. But if you can't find a substitute, use vodka and play the cocktailian iconoclast -- the guy who stands his ground in the face of prevailing opinion. Besides, we might be vodka snobs around here, but lots of big names -- Dale DeGroff and Ryan Magerian among them -- find vodka a useful ingredient.

On the other hand, gin makes a superior Bloody Mary, or so I'm told. (Playing the iconoclast card myself, I can't stand them.)

[ThinkingBartender]

I think I can use white rum in the White Russian and maybe gin or tequila in the Bloody Mary.

←

Rum White Russian is called (by some) as a Cuban Dude. Personally, I prefer the name El Duderino. Both allude to the Big Lebowski.

Tequila Bloody Mary is a Bloody Maria.

[Fat Guy]

I find the whole vodka-hating thing risible. Vodka is a terrific beverage. Yes, it has become more popular than it deserves to be, however that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used at all. I recently had some caviar with vodka and I can't imagine a better accompaniment. It seems to me the thing to have contempt for is not vodka as such, but the super-premium vodka trend. A cheap bottle of Luksusowa, when mixed in a cocktail, is going to be indistinguishable from a super-premium brand. And if you drink vodka straight, you might actually find that Luksusowa is more to your liking than something like Grey Goose or Chopin.

[menon1971]

I am not big into vodka, but Luksusowa is distinctive and underrated.

[eje]

Had to look up "risible"; but, I don't think it's necessary to "eliminate" vodka.

After all, it's good to have in the cabinet when random guests request cosmos or vodka tonics.

And, as others point out, is quite often used in many modern cocktails.

Plus, no refrigerator is really complete without a bottle of vodka at the back of the freezer. It's sort of like the 21st century can of spam. It must be good luck. Or something.

Still, not being much of a caviar connoisseur, I use it more often in home made liqueurs than anything else.

[Fat Guy]

Let us also not forget the many fine uses of vodka in cooking: penne alla vodka, vodka-cured salmon, vodka-lime vinaigrette.

And, of course, vodka as a drink to accompany traditional Russian and European Jewish foods.

[Dave the Cook]

Let us also not forget the many fine uses of vodka in cooking: penne alla vodka, vodka-cured salmon, vodka-lime vinaigrette.

And, of course, vodka as a drink to accompany traditional Russian and European Jewish foods.

←

I'm not sure about the penne, and I'm neither Russian nor a Jew, but I can't imagine that cured salmon and lime vinaigrette wouldn't be better using gin. Who's going to try them and report?

[Fat Guy]

The salmon situation is like the caviar situation: if you want to taste the product, vodka is the way to go. Not exactly the same context, but in Wine Spectator awhile back Sam Gugino, speaking about pairing beverages with smoked salmon, wrote:

While smoked salmon is a versatile ingredient in food preparation and marries with a variety flavors, it is best savored simply. Saul Zabar likes his with nothing more than rye bread. Benvin likes her salmon on French baguette slices with a martini. Gin isn’t a bad idea with smoked salmon, but iced vodka is a better choice.

The same reasoning should apply to the choice of vodka or gin as a curing agent, though I've only ever tried vodka-cured salmon never gin-cured (both are out there -- I've also seen and not tried rum-cured, sake-cured and even mojito-cured salmon). Still, I imagine the better the salmon the more likely I'd choose vodka over gin as a curing agent. Or maybe I'd just eat it.

[Dave the Cook]

Salmon is typically cured with salt, sugar and herbs. Point being: the flavor of the original product is already highly adulterated. Distillates and infusions can only be secondary flavor agents at best, given the strength of the primary cure ingredients and the drying effect of alcohol. Are you suggesting that the additional herbal-citrus boost of gin would be overdoing it?

[thirtyoneknots]

I'm as big a "vodka snob" as they come but a few words on that:

I don't think Vodka is bad, I just think it's boring. I'm kind of against it because its so...safe. And lame. And utterly...boring (I know I said that already). Its the booze equivalent of tofu. Ordering vodka cocktails is the food equivalent of going to chilis every night because you know the food will never be horrible. Blah, whatever.

That said, I keep vodka around around for several reasons, though I couldn't tell you when the last time I used it was. Mostly I use it to make syrups shelf-stable, and for that it is indespensable (though the very cheap will do nicely for this). Also I am prepared to make things like Bloody Marys (though I don't care for them myself) and White Russians (the girlfriend, a committed Gin Girl, still likes one on occasion) if the are called for. However, friends, when they come over, drink gin and not vodka. I am proud to say that all my friends, even the former vodka fanatic, are now gin drinkers, with a little help from me (marvellous what a 20th Century can do for someones outlook on life).

I think the fact that you are considering eliminating vodka from your cabinet gives you enough 'cred' without actually having to do it if you enjoy it sometimes or have a use for it (which you do), unless of course it is an issue of cost or space.

In which case, 86 that junk.

-Andy

[cocktailgeek]

I know many of you are also vodka haters. Have you had success minimizing the use of vodka or completely eliminating it from your cabinets?

The only vodka cocktails that I make are White Russians and Bloody Marys. I think I can use white rum in the White Russian and maybe gin or tequila in the Bloody Mary.

←

I don't see why an Oronoco White Russian wouldn't satisfy a vodka drinker. Lots o' vanilla, which would seem to go well with that drink. Tequila or gin will make a better drink than vodka in a Mary, since each will bring something to the table besides strength (hmmm flavor...). I don't hate vodka, just find it boring, since it is almost always mixed into a drink where it can't be tasted. There are certainly situations that call for vodka (usually straight), but if you are mixing cocktails it can certainly be done without.

[Carlovski]

Slightly OT but using vanilla infused vodka in a white russian is a good trick.

Does turn it into even more of a grown up milkshake though....

[Fat Guy]

Salmon is typically cured with salt, sugar and herbs. Point being: the flavor of the original product is already highly adulterated. Distillates and infusions can only be secondary flavor agents at best, given the strength of the primary cure ingredients and the drying effect of alcohol. Are you suggesting that the additional herbal-citrus boost of gin would be overdoing it?

←

I'd just as soon have my salmon not taste like juniper. Salt and sugar are, to me, more along the lines of flavor enhancers, and the curing effect mostly concentrates flavors, whereas herbs and spices strike me more as masking. You take something like "pastrami salmon" and, while tasty, it would seem an unfortunate fate for a really fabulous piece of salmon.

You made the analogy to turbinado sugar above. I think that's a good one. Vodka, for its part, is the granulated white sugar of the spirits world. Yes, I think everybody with a decent palate would agree that turbinado sugar tastes better than white sugar. However, you wouldn't throw out all your white sugar and try to make all your recipes with turbinado, would you? No, because sometimes you only want the sweetening property of sugar -- you don't want it to have much in the way of independent flavor, aromatics or whatever you want to call it. I guess I could easily imagine a foodie micro-trend where everybody turns against white sugar -- white sugar is so boring! -- and starts bending over backwards to cook everything with biodynamic honey and single-producer hand-crafted artisanal Vermont maple syrup, and maybe that would create a lot of interesting new desserts but it would also ruin many others.

[Tess]

I like most types of hard liquor in at least some drinks, but if I could only keep one it would probably be vodka. I like to make infusions. I also happen to like a few commercially flavored vodkas, like Charbay. (It has a weird oily texture but the flavors stand up in tall drinks.) If I was stuck with plain vodka, my choice might be different-- maybe brandy in its various forms.

Edited to add: by "plain" I mean not flavored either commercially or at home. Most of the vodka I buy is actually plain.

Edited January 11, 2007 by Tess (log)

[slkinsey]

I find the whole vodka-hating thing risible. Vodka is a terrific beverage. Yes, it has become more popular than it deserves to be, however that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used at all. I recently had some caviar with vodka and I can't imagine a better accompaniment. It seems to me the thing to have contempt for is not vodka as such, but the super-premium vodka trend.

There are a few issues you bring up here.

First, I don't think that "vodka-hating," as you put it, is generally done with respect to drinking unmixed chilled vodka. This is a misunderstanding. Some of us might find that boring as a general practice, but I think even the most vodkaphobic among us would say that if you are going to drink vodka, that's the way to do it. I think most would also concede that vodka can be a good accompaniment to things like caviar. I'm certainly not a proponent of vodka, and yet I'd definitely pull a bottle out of the freezer to drink with caviar.

"Vodka-hating" has its roots with respect to its use as a component in cocktails. By and large, vodka adds nothing to a cocktail but dilution and alcoholic kick. Orange juice mixed with vodka tastes like slightly diluted, alcoholic orange juice. This can be interesting and useful in a few cocktails like Audrey's Dreamy Dorini Smoking Martini, where vodka dilutes the strong flavor of Laphroaig single malt Scotch, but by and large it brings nothing to the table and is used to make easy-drinking alcopop anti-cocktails -- the White Zinfandel of the cocktail world. We have the same feelings towards these cocktails that oenophiles have towards overoaked, sweet-buttery mass-market Chardonnay. The mixological craft is one of combining spirits and flavors. As a result, vodka plays a very limited role in the cocktailian's palette. As I recall, Pegu Club didn't even crack the seal on a bottle of vodka for the first few days of "friends and family" pre-opening.

The second point is a valid one. I think that many cocktailians are suspicious of the whole superpreimum vodka trend. This is because, like yourself, we understand that the vodka business is primarily one of image, packaging and marketing. When you're talking about a spirit with virtually no flavor in any meaningful sense, something else has to differentiate that $13 liter from that $40 liter of vodka. This is image, packaging and marketing. Without getting too deep into it, one could say that the history of vodka in the United States is one of marketing. It was Smirnoff's advertising that brought vodka into the American consciousness in a major way, and I think it was probably Absolut's discovery that a fancy, distinctive bottle conveyed prestige and made possible higher prices that led to the image-driven superpremium market we see today. There's a reason the most expensive vodkas come in the fanciest, most distinctive bottles.

To be sure, there are differences among vodka brands -- albeit, primarily from the water used to dilute the spirits to bottle proof, as well as the various "add-ins" such as sugar, glycerin and flavoring agents that are allowed in "unflavored" vodka so long as they remain below a certain concentration. But it does not necessarily follow that the expensive vodka brands are "better" than the less expensive ones. If Smirnoff and Luksusowa were secretly rebranded and put into fancy bottles, I have no doubt that plenty of people would choose them over Ciroc and Belvedere, etc.

In the end, if you combine these two points, you end up with the "vodka-hating" idea among cocktail enthusiasts: For the reasons outlined above, I do think there is a certain amount of bemusement and contempt for the use of expensive superpremium vodka as a mixing spirit.

Let us also not forget the many fine uses of vodka in cooking: penne alla vodka, vodka-cured salmon, vodka-lime vinaigrette.

Vodka definitely has its uses. It's also useful for making flavored infusions, preserving simple syrup, cleaning off the sticky residue those stupid price stickers leave on new glassware, etc. You'll be happy to know that if I ever have to give you an emergency tracheotomy in my dining room, I've got plenty of 100 proof vodka around to use as a disinfectant. In all these uses, of course, we're really not using "vodka" as an ingredient per se, but rather just using "alcohol" for its chemical properties like we might use table salt or baking soda. Yet another reason to avoid using an expensive brand.

"Flavored vodka" is something entirely different. It's not clear to me that it really makes logical sense to call these "vodka." After all, what are gin, aquavit, even absinthe but neutral spirits (aka "vodka") into which other flavorings have been infused (albeit sometimes with post-infusion redistillation)? The main difference is one of complexity: gin, aquavit, etc. all have complex, multilayered flavor profiles whereas flavored vodkas tend to be entirely one-note. For this reason, many of us feel that it makes little sense to buy a flavored vodka when it isn't rocket science to make one at home for 1/10th the price. I'll never bother buying lemon or lime vodka, for example, because I can make my own to order by microplane-grating some lemon zest into a vew ounces of vodka and letting it infuse for a few minutes before straining and using it.

[Nathan]

Word.

Edit: I happen to enjoy the occasional night at the Russian Vodka Room or the Russian Samovar...drinking straight shots of either chilled vodka or of the house infused varieties.

But I don't use it in cocktails.

and Bloody Marias are damned tasty...

Edited January 11, 2007 by Nathan (log)

[slkinsey]

I actually prefer a Snapper (using gin) to a Bloody Mary.

[moosnsqrl]

Wow, do I want a bloody mary all of a sudden! Too bad I'm not on EST.

Kent, have you tried Tito's or are you just beyond salvation with regard to vodka? It's from your own backyard and it's about as un-designer as you can get, but tasty nonetheless.

Vodka is my DOC and I wish the 'trend' would end suddenly and for good. The faddishness factor is costing me dearly. I haven't kept records of the rising cost of decent (not super-premium) vodka but it must be a very steep curve. I'll be happy when the beautiful people move on to something else.

I wouldn't diss vodka entirely, though, even if you don't love it. It does have its culinary uses. I, too, would find gin far too junipery for curing salmon. Aquavit bears consideration there, though.

[JerseyRED]

Mr. Kinsey,

Nicely put! If I could were able express my feelings on the subject as eloquently, I would have said the same thing.

About vodka, not the Snapper. I personally don’t care for tomato juice mixed in any form.

Rich

[rumball]

sorry, hit the wrong button!

as a born russian i can tell you - adding either kalua or milk to vodka is an atrocity.

here's my very own var of lemontini that goes down like lemonade, but you need to get a good expensive lemonchello for that:

Lemontini:

3 jiggers limonchello (italian of course!)

5 jiggers vodka.

half a lemon, juiced, zest grated into glasses.

Shake with ice, add 2 drops of angostura bitters.

Also can try with lime. Lime is better.

my jigger is 4tsp (20ml).

the other very healthy suggestion that you might mistake for a smoothie is this:

1 cup fresh strawberry puree, 3 cubes frozen blackberry puree thawed slightly, juice of ½ lime, 4 tsp powder sugar, 5 jiggers of white rum or vodka.

it's my special for u-pick season , when loads of blackberries fall off the sky:-D. i puree, strain and freeze them. subs? may be frozen raspberries, since the drink needs the tartness. but that i have not tried myself.

believe me, you can go thru your vodka supply in no time with these.

ps. i like polish vodka best: belvedere and chopin.

Edited January 12, 2007 by rumball (log)

[Kent Wang]

I buy only Tito's. Once someone gave me a bottle of Grey Goose so I've been secretly refilling that bottle with Tito's. I did a blind tasting and really could not tell the difference. My friend who swore he could also failed.

Why use vanilla vodka? Why not just add vanilla? Liquid vanilla usually has alcohol in it anyway. Vanilla-flavored vodka is basically the same thing diluted by a bunch of added vodka.

It seems like the many uses of vodka can be replaced with Everclear. Why not?

[varicose veins]

Plain vodka is definetely on the sliding slope downwards - up with the gin! I'd also keep an eye on tequila, had a tequila espresso martini a while ago, the agave flavours worked amazingly with the coffee.

Lots of people are citing the use of vodka as a cocktail lengthener? I'm not really a a fan of this, I dont really like the idea of putting alcohol into a drink just to get the effect of getting drunk (perhaps it adds an extra bite??)

Cocktails are my thing, I love making them and I love drinking them. It would be nice to drink more than a few before its time to get a taxi home and fall asleep with my makeup all over the pillow! What do people think of the idea that cocktails could perhaps lower their alcohol content? I don't mean as standard, and obviously the customer would be charged accordingly, but I quite like the idea that people can drink more cocktails and experience more flavours, without getting hammered. I like the idea of people viewing cocktails as a taste experience, and not just a means of getting drunk. It would obviously make martinis and some others problematic, but for tall drinks, these could be served in shorter glasses with the level of mixer altered accordingly. Just an idea, not one I'm expecting to take off very soon!