Going Pro

[lala]

I'm making a mid life career redirection, and looking to move into wine. I'm not quite sure yet what I want to do, but most likely something educational - teaching, writing, personal advisor, etc. I love wine and want to help open this world to others.

My background: I'm a CIA grad (got 100 in the wine class) worked as Chef and Pastry Chef, managed Cafes, did high end event planning, and currently work with the public to answer cooking questions via email. I've been tasting wine since the age of 4 (long story, not a child alcoholic), and I know that I know a fair amount about wine, but I also know that there are gaps in my knowledge. I'm willing to take courses, be certified, etc.

I currently live in the Northwest, but will gladly relocate on either a temporary or permenant basis. I've looked into the Wine Professional program at Central Washington University as well as the CIA:

http://www.cwuce.org/wine-education/

http://www.ciaprochef.com/winestudies/immersion.html

Cia Preps you for the basic certification. I'd move on and complete higher levels as I move forward.

So here are my questions for you wine professionals:

What's the best way to get a solid foundation in wine - I think these courses look good, with the CIA one looking better. Do you have any other classes/courses that you'd reccommend?

Does a newbie in the wine world need a certification? Will that help me get in the door of a winery or retail situation? I know that my CIA degree opened doors that would otherwise have been closed to me...

Any feedback is welcome and much appreciated.

Edited October 14, 2006 by lala (log)

[Daniel Rogov]

With all due respect to the CIA (for which I have great respect), I would suggest that the first place to look for truly professional wine education is the British Wine & Spirit Education Trust (WSET). As you will see at their internet site at http://www.wset.co.uk their courses are offered in many locations around the world and, depending on one's needs can lead to one, two or three stages and perhaps even finallly to the coveted MW (Master of Wine).

No less important to whatever formal educational choice you make, start now to do three things (1) taste wines wherever and whenever possible, always making tasting notes; (2) taste wines wherever and whenever possible, always making tasting notes; and (3) taste wines wherever and whenever possible, always making tasting notes.

[JohnL]

I'm making a mid life career redirection, and looking to move into wine. I'm not quite sure yet what I want to do, but most likely something educational - teaching, writing, personal advisor, etc. I love wine and want to help open this world to others.

My background: I'm a CIA grad (got 100 in the wine class) worked as Chef and Pastry Chef, managed Cafes, did high end event planning, and currently work with the public to answer cooking questions via email. I've been tasting wine since the age of 4 (long story, not a child alcoholic), and I know that I know a fair amount about wine, but I also know that there are gaps in my knowledge. I'm willing to take courses, be certified, etc.

I currently live in the Northwest, but will gladly relocate on either a temporary or permenant basis. I've looked into the Wine Professional program at Central Washington University as well as the CIA:

http://www.cwuce.org/wine-education/

http://www.ciaprochef.com/winestudies/immersion.html

Cia Preps you for the basic certification. I'd move on and complete higher levels as I move forward.

So here are my questions for you wine professionals:

What's the best way to get a solid foundation in wine - I think these courses look good, with the CIA one looking better. Do you have any other classes/courses that you'd reccommend?

Does a newbie in the wine world need a certification? Will that help me get in the door of a winery or retail situation? I know that my CIA degree opened doors that would otherwise have been closed to me...

Any feedback is welcome and much appreciated.

←

I am also in the process of a second career in wine!

For about twenty five years, I worked in advertising and marketing and two years ago, I decided to pursue my passion for wine professionally.

I would recommend that you take a long hard look at where you are in terms of wine knowledge right now.

This is more about positioning yourself to do what you love than obtaining some sort of "certification."

There are successful people in all phases of the wine business with all sorts of backgrounds. There currently are no specific certifications required to get into the wine business.

Robert Parker was an attorney who merely tasted lots of wine and started a newsletter. he has, I believe no formal training or certification.

Some retail and wholesale entities do require some formal training and certification from either the WSET or the Sommeliers Society. I do see an increase in the importance of some formal certification here in the US.

I decided that though I had a considerable amount of knowledge about wine --gained on my own--I wanted something more formal.

After some considerable investigation, I settled upon the WSET. I gained an advanced certificate in Wine and Spirits studies and am now enrolled in the Diploma Program.

I also obtained a position in a local wine shop as a sales consultant. This provides both an opportunity to increase my knowledge through exposure to the wholesale and retail trade as well as wine makers, hone my skills through selling wine to consumers and gain further credentials in wine and I am tasting professionally now on a regular basis which is quite different from tasting purely for pleasure.

The WSET course as noted by Daniel Rogov is quite intensive--it is offered in many locations including the Pacific Northwest. I am taking it at the International Wine Center here in New York City. It is also the course leading to study for the Master of Wine certification.

You will need to determine what level course you can start with (the IWC web site has a self test) beginner or intermediate or advanced. (one must complete and pass the test for the advanced course before going on to the Diploma level).

In total, the advanced and diploma courses take about three years to complete and home study for those not near a teaching center is available.

I would strongly recommend that one attend classes.

Good luck!

Thus far I have greatly enjoyed learning and working!!!

There's nothing like loving and having a passion for that at which you make your living.

[lala]

Edited: I answered my own question.

So...what makes WSET better than the CIA? What are your criteria for this decision?

Edited October 17, 2006 by lala (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

I was in a similar boat in April of '05 and asked the wine-obsessed at Robert Parker's site.

The thread on that discussion should prove quite illuminating...

[lala]

So, Carolyn, what did you do, and why?

[Carolyn Tillie]

I was in a similar boat and going through a mid-life crisis. I had the advantage of living in Napa and having three schools in my backyard; the CIA, the WSET, and the Court of Sommeliers.

I took the Intermediate WSET course with every intention of going onto the Advanced course. I subsequently had a huge life-changing event almost exactly year ago in which I left the wine industry completely, going into another industry which enables me to actually purchase the wines I was previously unable to afford.

The WSET Intermediate is more like a primer and I don't feel I learned a whole lot I didn't already know - except that it was required before going into the Advanced course. There was also an emphasis on ostensibly odd things like Perry but barely touching on California wines.

[JohnL]

I was in a similar boat and going through a mid-life crisis. I had the advantage of living in Napa and having three schools in my backyard; the CIA, the WSET, and the Court of Sommeliers.

I took the Intermediate WSET course with every intention of going onto the Advanced course. I subsequently had a huge life-changing event almost exactly year ago in which I left the wine industry completely, going into another industry which enables me to actually purchase the wines I was previously unable to afford.

The WSET Intermediate is more like a primer and I don't feel I learned a whole lot I didn't already know - except that it was required before going into the Advanced course. There was also an emphasis on ostensibly odd things like Perry but barely touching on California wines.

←

There are two distinct issues here:

1--knowledge

2--certification

knowledge can be gained by reading, personal experience etc.

certification indicates to others that you have a certain level of knowledge

In England, I believe an advanced level certificate is required to sell wine (I may be wrong about this). Here in the US nothing is required to enter into the wine business.

Obviously, one must have knowledge or one will fail. (no different from any business).

I am noticing that more and more retailers and wholesaler, importers, restaurants are sending employees to wine education programs.

I have also noticed more job opening requirements include a certificate from WSET or the Court of Sommeliers program.

If you merely want to write about wine then the obvious question is -what do you have to say?

Also, the WSET program does cover most of the wine world (California etc)--one has to get to the advanced level certificate program at the least.

One key area a course helps is in learning to taste wine and to write professional quality notes.

There is also extensive knowledge of how grapes are grown and wine is made.

I would say that most people I know who are very serious about wine who do not make a living in wine read a tremendous amount of wine literature and attend formal and informal tastings. many travel to wine making countries regularly.

Some avail themselves of a formal education and some do not.

Just as many writers working professionally, come out of writing programs there are those who do not.

All this depends upon what works for you.

[CherieV]

I too highly reccommend the WSET. The advanced cert was the first formal wine class I ever took and thankfully passed the exam. Since then I have taken the Into Court of Sommeliers exam (MS program) and the CSW through the Society of Wine Educators. i passed both exams with flying colors and I really attribute that to my strong foundation acheived through the classes/reading materials of the WSET. If I had the time to devote I would certainly take the diploma course in a heartbeat.

[chefboy24]

cia grad here myself, who just switched full time into wine.

i was pretty much tired of the low pay of being a nyc line cook, and more frustrated with the BS and games GM's and managers play when you work front of the house...

so i got a job as a wine sales associate at burgundy wine company

www.burgundywinecompany.com

top zagat store, all these awards. no regrets. and i get to sit in a chair the majority of my day! and i make commission!

as far as courses, i do not recommend them. read a lot. a lot! and taste. all the time. whenever possible. a large percentage of your income will be spent on wine, much higher then the average person, so be prepared for that hit.

you could always start with wine retail.... but the pay is sort of lower then a lot of other work.

you could also work at an importer/distributor.... if you did sales, you'd be selling wine at wholesale to retailers and restaurants, which is my goal.. this is very hard to crack into, i think. retail shops are always hiring, but i have never seen a distributor/importer in the new york market hire....

it's a great switch, i recommend it. but if you're good at sales, and you love wine, and you know how to read.....don't waste your time with a course. you have to be patient with gaining knowledge about wine, it will come slowly but surely the more you read and taste.

[CherieV]

cia grad here myself, who just switched full time into wine.

i was pretty much tired of the low pay of being a nyc line cook, and more frustrated with the BS and games GM's and managers play when you work front of the house...

so i got a job as a wine sales associate at burgundy wine company

www.burgundywinecompany.com

top zagat store, all these awards.  no regrets.  and i get to sit in a chair the majority of my day!  and i make commission!

as far as courses, i do not recommend them.  read a lot.  a lot!  and taste. all the time. whenever possible.  a large percentage of your income will be spent on wine, much higher then the average person, so be prepared for that hit.

you could always start with wine retail.... but the pay is sort of lower then a lot of other work.

you could also work at an importer/distributor.... if you did sales, you'd be selling wine at wholesale to retailers and restaurants, which is my goal..  this is very hard to crack into, i think.  retail shops are always hiring, but i have never seen a distributor/importer in the new york market hire....

it's a great switch, i recommend it.  but if you're good at sales, and you love wine, and you know how to read.....don't waste your time with a course.  you have to be patient with gaining knowledge about wine, it will come slowly but surely the more you read and taste.

←

I disagree. My world opened up once I started to get educated. I was hired as a Sommelier at The Four Seasons after obtaining my Adv Cert from WSET. From there I was hired by a large distributor and now I am a premium wine manager working for a winery in Napa. The thing that separated me from the pack was my education. The more effort I put into passing exams the better the job offers. Headhunters call me constantly.

Education is vital to sucess in this buiness. Reading and tasting on your own is fine and should be part of your life anyway if you love wine.

Also, there are TONS of jobs in sales in NYC but you will need education and experience. It is quite competative but the $$ is there.

[JohnL]

I agree CherieV!

While the ultimate measure is what one does with one's education regardless of how one obtained it, there are benefits to a formal certification program.

Passion, diligence and hard work can't be taught (or learned).

A good salesperson can, IMOP. sell anything--it is not the product knowledge part that is critical. It is the ability to deal with people and their needs that is key.

Customer service.

That said, I believe there is a place for some sort of formal education and accreditation in the wine business at all levels. I agree that formal education is becoming more important to employers--I see more and more job listings requiring some sort of certification or another.

[alacarte]

What did you think of Eric Asimov's take on the "Sommelier Shortage"? Is wine education the answer?

Link to NY Times article on sommelier shortage...

Edited November 22, 2006 by alacarte (log)

[JohnL]

What did you think of Eric Asimov's take on the "Sommelier Shortage"? Is wine education the answer?

Link to NY Times article on sommelier shortage...

←

Yes.

The US is seeing rapid growth of interest in wine and food.

The wine world is becoming more complex.

More countries are producing more different wines in more styles from more varietals than ever before.

We are seeing more and more specialization.

Employers --most restaurants and retail shops can not afford to spend a lot of time educating staff. A formal certification or degree at least assures them of a certain level of knowledge.

That said. I firmly believe that the industry needs to focus more on customer service and sales technique.

Nothing is worse than encountering a wine geek salesperson (formally or informally educated) in a retail shop or in a restaurant who is all about impressing you with their wine knowledge.

Unfortunately, formal education often imbues people with a sense of superiority and they become self important. Selling (anything) is about the customer--understanding their wants and needs and meeting/exceeding them.

Bad wine service can ruin an otherwise good dining experience in a restaurant. In a retail shop, it can drive away customers.

[chefboy24]

What that article failed to tell us is that starting salaries are $30,000 in New York CIty for sommeliers who work 60 hours a week. (I should know, I've done it in restaurants with certain celebrity chefs at the helm). Usually junior sommeliers or those without much experience would probably make more money as waitstaff. TO make the switch, you much take a huge pay cut in order to further your career.

I thought it was a very silly article written from someone very much not in the restaurant business, as much as i do love eric asimov. this article, he missed the mark....

[BigboyDan]

First rule in life: never work in a New York City restaurant.

Get wine certified at the least; it's like a law degree, doubles your entry pay.