"Special" Prix Fixe Menus

[HD73]

I had a couple iffy experiences with "special" prix fixe menus during University City Dining Days, but decided to give them another shot at Lolita last Thursday on Best of Philly Day. Big Mistake.

I've been to Lolita in the past and really enjoyed it. This time around, I must confess, the service was great and the food was still good. It was the thought process evident behind the "special menu" that was insulting to diners. Let me explain.

Lolita was offering a 35 dollar, 3 course prix fixe dinner. This actually seemed a bit steep to me, when taken in consideration with their normal prices, but I figured I must have just been mis-remembering my last visit.

Upon arrival, it was clear that most of the more expensive items had been removed from the menu. The tenderloin was gone and a chicken breast had been substituted for the duck breast. This is to be expected. A little more annoying was the shift of some of the more popular appetizers into a la carte "specials". If you wanted guacamole con totopos mixtos, you were paying an extra 9 dollars for them.

My vague sense of being ripped off blossomed into anger when I got home and took a look at their online menu. The meal that my girlfriend had would have totaled 33 dollars on a normal night. My meal would have totaled 34 dollars. In fact, I'm fairly certain that it was impossible to craft a meal that would have cost you anything more than 35 dollars exactly on a normal night. Instead of offering diners a special deal, Lolita was actually jacking up its margins for "Best of Philly Day."

The price difference is negligible, and it's not the money lost that makes me angry. It's the attitude. I used to view special prix fixe menus as a great way for someone on a budget to see if a touted restaurant is worth full price. I figured the restaurants would be trying to knock enough socks off to guarantee some repeat business. Instead, I'm now convinced that most restaurants are just going through the motions, and some (like Lolita) are just trying to fleece a roomful of Rubes for a short-term profit boost.

I really enjoy Lolita, and I'll probably end up going back eventually at my girlfriend's insistence. But I'll never shake off the feeling that the management is laughing behind my back. It's a shame a "special" night could have such a negative impact.

So with Restaurant Week approaching, I'd love to know if you think any place is worth hitting up, or if my impression over the last couple weeks is correct. Is there anywhere that will try to knock my socks off instead of just shaking all the change out of my pockets?

[katbert]

Prix fixe can be hit or miss; the usual caveat emptor applies. Some places like Le Bar Lyonnais (out of Le Bec Fin) are always cheaper during restaurant week than ordering a la carte as usual, and I think you still get fancy service and better than decent food (worth it!) which is usually priced high 20s-mid30s. In most of the byo type places, the prix fixe usually looks like either the appetizer or dessert is a freebie.

[Vadouvan]

The price difference is negligible, and it's not the money lost that makes me angry. It's the attitude. I used to view special prix fixe menus as a great way for someone on a budget to see if a touted restaurant is worth full price. I figured the restaurants would be trying to knock enough socks off to guarantee some repeat business. Instead, I'm now convinced that most restaurants are just going through the motions, and some (like Lolita) are just trying to fleece a roomful of Rubes for a short-term profit boost.

I am a bit suprised since I hear nothing but excellent reports about the food at Lolita.

That aside, the fact is ....

1. Not to sound Clintonian but there is nothing "Special" about the word "Special"....in ANY restaurant.

Dining out "special" promotions are banquets for short term profits, same with any "special" evening like Valentines day, New years eve, Book and the cook ect ect.

HD73 you may be the first member of the public to understand how it works since you basically touched on the math.

See the way it works is in most cases, going to the restaurant at other times to order a similar amount of food is within a reasonable price range of the "Special" promotion.

HOWEVER...and this is the best part, the restaurant's food cost in "special" dinners is 10 to 15 % less...sometimes more, translation, they make a ton of money, you think you are getting a deal, everyone is happy......except in this case...you.

Moral of the story.....avoid "specials".

Read Kitchen confidential, there is some truth to Tony's stories.

[Andrew Fenton]

As Katbert pointed out, it depends on the place and the price, and it's worthwhile to do a little research first.

For instance, during UC Dining Days a couple of weeks back, I had a great dinner at Rx. At $25 for three courses, it was a little cheaper than usual, and the food was just as good as it always is over there. A good deal. But I noticed that Dahlak also had a $25 special: while I like Dahlak fine, I don't think I've ever spent $25 on food there. Not such a good deal.

And welcome, HD73!

[HD73]

Thanks for the welcome Andrew.

Vadouvan - The food was still good to very good, but it was a notch below what I've had there before. This might simply have been my choices and not a reflection of an off-night in the kitchen. Like I said, I'll probably still be back because my girlfriend is addicted to the enchiladas there. The service was also great, as it has been every time I've eaten there.

It just irked me that they'd gotten me in the door with their "special" offer, taken away about half the menu, and then charged me more for what was left. That, and two other lackluster experiences during UC Dining Days has me thinking I'll take Restaurant Week off. I was just hoping some gulleteers would be able to clue me in to some places where "special" actually means special.

[I_call_the_duck]

Welcome, HD73!

I wouldn't write off Restaurant Week, but like Andrew and Katbert said, you have to do your research. It helps that most of the restaurants give their menus prior to the event and that their regular menus are on their websites. With that in mind, you can figure out which restaurants are worth the $30 prix-fixe and which ones are not. Rip offs? Marathon Grill, for one. Deals? Le Bar Lyonnaise and La Famiglia. Yes, they make substitutions from the regular menu, but considering that antipasti at La Famiglia starts at $10, pastas $17, and a piece of chicken is $26, I'd say this would be one of the more worthwhile deals.

[rlibkind]

The fact that Lolita charged more than normal for what is touted as a bargain promotion is penny-wise, pound-foolish. The food may have been decent, but it obviously left HD73 with a bad taste in his mouth. I don't expect to get caviar for free during promotions like this, but I do expect to avoid feeling ripped off. The restaurant should make a profit on the promotion, it needn't be a loss-leader (especially at a BYO where there's no opportunity to make it up on booze). But the diner should not leave feeling as if the restaurant fleeced him or her.

[Shalmanese]

Send a letter detailing your complaints. It's worth a shot.

[SteveR]

Send a letter detailing your complaints. It's worth a shot.

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I agree with Shalmanese. I would send a letter or email to the restaurant and ask them to reply. I've done that on occasion and usually hear back.

Then share the reply with the group. There could just possibly be a reason - not sure what - and the restaurant will lose more business from bad publicity, so they really should reply.

BTW, I went ti La Famiglia last RW and going back. It's a shorter menu but I had a small filet and large dessert sampler and heavenly gnocci. I'd never be able to do that for $30.00!

And the BEST deals on RW are the restaurants that offer "Choice of any app, any entree and any dessert". There are a few of those.

Lastly, there was a replyt mentioning RX. To my knowledge they offer the $25.00 3 course meal EVERY week - at least mid week. Am I wrong?

Steve R

[dagordon]

Funny, we were at Lolia on Best of Philly Day too and also thought that it was a notch below usual, which has always been excellent for us. It was also several notches above the normal noise level, I think.

[KatieLoeb]

But the real question is, are any of you bargain hunters going back to a place you tried on a promotional week/night at full freight??

In a perfect world, new customers would test drive a restaurant during a promotion to see if it's worth coming back at full price.

I think the reason a lot of restaurants won't put forth their best efforts is because a lot of "frugal" (read: cheap) folks that won't darken their doorstep again until the next "Low-Cost-Prix-Fixe-Night" come out, don't order any beverages or anything that isn't included, and in many cases will tip poorly. The staff gets run ragged for nothing, the restaurant is overbooked because folks think they've rented the table for the night, to hell with whomever else has reservations later than they do, and everyone is miserable. It's like going out to brunch on Mother's Day. It's a lose-lose for everyone concerned.

I personally think a lot of restaurants are afraid to stop participating in Book & the Cook or Restaurant Week or whatever, because they're afraid it might send a bad "message" if they aren't seen on the promotional postcard this time. But if they had their druthers, it might be quite different.

Let me ask - to those of you that have had great $30 meals at La Famiglia or Bar Lyonnaise for Restaurant Week.

Have you been back since???

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

[HD73]

Katie-

The problem with your theory is that, if it was true, I'd expect the opposite of the current result. Here's what I mean:

Apparently, the places where the "special" is actually special also happen to be those places where NO ONE is going back to pay full freight. Chances are, I'm not going to make La Famiglia more than once in a very great while on my current budget.

The places where the "specials" make you feel like you rode there on the "special" (read: short) bus are the places where one is most likely to return and pay full freight. A reasonably priced place like Lolita is very well situated to attract new customers this way. On my last normal visit, I got out of Lolita for 90 bucks, including tip (we skipped dessert for Capogiro). On this visit, the total was closer to 120 after tax and tip. If I hadn't been there on a normal night and seen how good it was, Best of Philly Night would have ensured that I NEVER returned.

Here's my theory about what's happening. The La Famiglia type restaurants realize that most of their guests are only there on special occasions. So they use their prix fixe specials to show people just how wonderful they are, and that they take pride in what they do. That way, when I'm thinking of where to splurge for an anniversary, they'll be at the top of my list.

A place like Lolita is buying into your theory, but what they're actually doing (and I'm living proof) is turning off likely repeat customers by ripping them off.

If a restaurant is going to adopt the cynical view that Restaurant Week is just the best week to fleece the rubes from out-of-town, they'd be much better off just not participating. If Lolita's name wasn't on the list, I would think nothing of it. But I certainly have some thoughts about being one of the rubes they fleeced last week.

[Capaneus]

Welcome, HD73!

I wouldn't write off Restaurant Week, but like Andrew and Katbert said, you have to do your research.  It helps that most of the restaurants give their menus prior to the event and that their regular menus are on their websites.  With that in mind, you can figure out which restaurants are worth the $30 prix-fixe and which ones are not.  Rip offs?  Marathon Grill, for one.  Deals? Le Bar Lyonnais and La Famiglia.  Yes, they make substitutions from the regular menu, but considering that antipasti at La Famiglia starts at $10, pastas $17, and a piece of chicken is $26, I'd say this would be one of the more worthwhile deals.

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As far as Restaurant Week, I've just about given up on it: there's mad BloodLust DeathMatches for the "best" places, too often what you get is not representative of the regular menu - or the chef's skill - and the staff is surly, from management on down, because of the smaller tabs. Having said that, I have found that if you go a little deeper into the lineup, to places that do need the exposure, you often get much better results: they'll give you a five (rather than three) course menu, special touches, eagerness to please, whatever. Ava last year was a case in point for me. And at the top, as others have pointed out, there are exceptions as well. A little research goes a long way. I'll recommend Alma de Cuba, for one, though by the third mojito $30 will be a remote memory; which is also a problem with some of the other high-end tables: their menus may be discounted, but their winelists and bars are certainly not..

Andrew, $25/3 courses is Rx's Tuesday-Thursday everyday prix-fixe. Sort of bears out the OP's point. On the other hand, the UC promotion was multi-tiered. I don't think Dahlak was charging $25 per person.

[matthewj]

I was always worried about restuarant week. I mean I never wanted to do it, not because of trying to rip the customers off, but it always seemed like a money grab. A way to jam as many people, who normally would not come to the restuarant, through the door, and shove half baked food onto a plate. It concerns me, because you never know who is going to be eating that night, and you always tend to shun the regular clientele in effort to get new clientele that will never come back.

The case may be that some of the higher end restaurants should participate, and let culinary prow-less shine. Because making "cheap food" is not always easy. It can be the most challenging, and one can really flex there culinary mussel, and out shine someone else.

I believe twenty-twenty one is a great place to go during restuarant week. It is off the beaten path, but the chef is of good caliber.

As for the Book and Crook I think restaurants should start boycotting it until they lower the cost to have these "great chefs", run the kitchen

[KatieLoeb]

HD73:

If any restaurant is charging more than normal on a "special" promotion evening then that's just wrong. The fact that it leaves you feeling ripped off doesn't surprise me in the least. I'd feel exactly the same way.

I appreciate your theory regarding the high end "special occasion" restaurants. You'd be surprised I think, that although they are special occasion places for most of us mere mortals, those sorts of places survive because they actually do have a regular clientele. Probably no one we hang with, but a regular clientele nonetheless. No one at the high end can survive by merely being a special occasion restaurant. Too many bills to pay what with the expensive stemware, expensive ingredients, fine china and tabletop accoutrement, those big assed flower arrangements everywhere, etc.

The impetus for the restaurant behind participation in Restaurant Week or Book & Cook or whatever is the big promotion, PR and advertising that's paid for by the Center City Proprietors Association or whomever else. Book & Cook is a pretty big tourist attraction. Back when it started it was begun as a way to get out of towners into the city to fill up the hotels and restaurants during a traditionally "dead" time in early March. Restaurant Week, in theory, is to get new potential clients in your door and wow them. Problem is, they aren't wowed because you can't afford to do your best work for them. To have a place that normally has a $50/person check average (before beverages) give an effective 40% discount for a full week is really cutting into their usual revenues. The restaurants start to overbook the instant the schedule and participating restaurants are announced. Add in the bad attitude customers and overworked and undertipped staff and it's a recipe for disaster. No good can come of it.

I suspect we're both right to a certain degree. If Restaurant Week had been your first experience at Lolita, by your own admission you'd have never gone back. But hopefully, you're a person that goes out more that four times per year. Twice during Restaurant Weeks and once each for a birthday or anniversary.

[Neuronix]

I've only been to restaurant week once. Despite being a student budget restaurant hunter, I go out usually around once a week and spend $40-$50 on dinner with my girlfriend (places like Dmitri's or Vientianne are too hard to resist!). One place my girlfriend and I always wanted to try was Marrakesh morrocan down near South St. We were planning on going one weekend, full price indeed, until we noticed that they would be participating in restaurant week 2 weeks later. So we called and made a restaurant week reservation. Why not try it at a reduced price, we figured?

Our meal was so awful. Every course was very bad. From absolutely flavorless, to too salty to eat, to burnt. The usual cheap winelist that I hear they have was replaced by the usual mass-produced Californians at 4x markup. To add insult to injury, there was even a mistake on our bill. There was no rush to turn over the table, as they left us with the check for a reallllly long time, and took a long time to fix the problem. Meanwhile, while we were sitting there, they kicked the table next to us out while they were still drinking their wine.

This all leads me to wonder, why would you participate in restaurant week if you just can't handle it? I will never go back to Marrakesh as a result, despite going to Casablanca, a similarly priced and themed restaurant in northern DE, as often as I can. I even wrote a crappy review on Citysearch about the experience. It just doesn't make any business sense. Try to make a little more cash during restaurant week, while turning so many potential customers off from your restaurant? I've heard so many restaurant week and special prix fixe horror stories by now, that I don't think I'll ever try another restaurant week again.

[jelly]

I've only been to restaurant week once. Despite being a student budget restaurant hunter, I go out usually around once a week and spend $40-$50 on dinner with my girlfriend (places like Dmitri's or Vientianne are too hard to resist!).  One place my girlfriend and I always wanted to try was Marrakesh morrocan down near South St. We were planning on going one weekend, full price indeed, until we noticed that they would be participating in restaurant week 2 weeks later. So we called and made a restaurant week reservation. Why not try it at a reduced price, we figured?

Our meal was so awful. Every course was very bad. From absolutely flavorless, to too salty to eat, to burnt. The usual cheap winelist that I hear they have was replaced by the usual mass-produced Californians at 4x markup. To add insult to injury, there was even a mistake on our bill. There was no rush to turn over the table, as they left us with the check for a reallllly long time, and took a long time to fix the problem. Meanwhile, while we were sitting there, they kicked the table next to us out while they were still drinking their wine.

This all leads me to wonder, why would you participate in restaurant week if you just can't handle it? I will never go back to Marrakesh as a result, despite going to Casablanca, a similarly priced and themed restaurant in northern DE, as often as I can. I even wrote a crappy review on Citysearch about the experience. It just doesn't make any business sense. Try to make a little more cash during restaurant week, while turning so many potential customers off from your restaurant? I've heard so many restaurant week and special prix fixe horror stories by now, that I don't think I'll ever try another restaurant week again.

←

I agree that restaurant week can be a problem. I've had good and bad experiences. The best were at Marigold and Mercato. This time we're gonig to Django. We'll see.

[KatieLoeb]

I've only been to restaurant week once. Despite being a student budget restaurant hunter, I go out usually around once a week and spend $40-$50 on dinner with my girlfriend (places like Dmitri's or Vientianne are too hard to resist!).  One place my girlfriend and I always wanted to try was Marrakesh morrocan down near South St. We were planning on going one weekend, full price indeed, until we noticed that they would be participating in restaurant week 2 weeks later. So we called and made a restaurant week reservation. Why not try it at a reduced price, we figured?

Our meal was so awful. Every course was very bad. From absolutely flavorless, to too salty to eat, to burnt. The usual cheap winelist that I hear they have was replaced by the usual mass-produced Californians at 4x markup. To add insult to injury, there was even a mistake on our bill. There was no rush to turn over the table, as they left us with the check for a reallllly long time, and took a long time to fix the problem. Meanwhile, while we were sitting there, they kicked the table next to us out while they were still drinking their wine.

This all leads me to wonder, why would you participate in restaurant week if you just can't handle it? I will never go back to Marrakesh as a result, despite going to Casablanca, a similarly priced and themed restaurant in northern DE, as often as I can. I even wrote a crappy review on Citysearch about the experience. It just doesn't make any business sense. Try to make a little more cash during restaurant week, while turning so many potential customers off from your restaurant? I've heard so many restaurant week and special prix fixe horror stories by now, that I don't think I'll ever try another restaurant week again.

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I don't think your problems at Marrakesh were the result of it being restaurant week. That place has been appallingly bad for a very long time. They've been coasting on a reputation earned back in the eighties when they were the first and only Morroccan restaurant in the city.

Try Fez on 2nd Street, both the food and service are much better than Marrakesh.

I do agree with you that restaurants shouldn't participate if they can't handle it.

[I_call_the_duck]

Let me ask -  to those of you that have had great $30 meals at La Famiglia or Bar Lyonnaise for Restaurant Week.

Have you been back since??? 

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

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No, because $138/pp (LBF's tasting menu) is significantly more than $30/pp. If money were no object, yes I probably would go. On the other hand, South Street was doing its own RW a few weeks back. We went to Gayle, where we had a fantastic meal, and will definitely go again.

[Mano]

Maybe I missed it, but are there guidlines restaurants agree to follow in order to participate in Restaurant Week? If so, what are they?

[Capaneus]

Maybe I missed it, but are there guidlines restaurants agree to follow in order to participate in Restaurant Week?  If so, what are they?

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As far as I know, they have to offer a (minimally) three course meal for $30. Beyond that, I've seen very wide variations.

[katbert]

Let me ask -  to those of you that have had great $30 meals at La Famiglia or Bar Lyonnaise for Restaurant Week.

Have you been back since??? 

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

←

No, because $138/pp (LBF's tasting menu) is significantly more than $30/pp. If money were no object, yes I probably would go. On the other hand, South Street was doing its own RW a few weeks back. We went to Gayle, where we had a fantastic meal, and will definitely go again.

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Le Bar would probably only set you back in the $40-50s if you weren't drinking. (*shrug* I don't have an expense account either.) I think return visits depend on restaurant price point, your generic budget for going out, how many clients you have, how many friends you have with expense accounts, how many occasions you might have to celebrate, how many occasions you might make up to celebrate, etc.

One of my friends went to Marigold over the University City Restaurant Week and she says she would definitely return.

I've gone to Prime Rib for smoky tomato soup and a pound of rare tender beef during Restaurant Week and thought it was a reasonable deal, but probably wouldn't go back unless it was on someone else's tab and I had no say in where to go. Wait, that makes it sound like I'd only go at gunpoint. I take that part back. How about, while it's not the first place I'd choose and I wouldn't mind going there if some large infinitely rich entity were paying, I would probably spend my own $60 elsewhere if it were my money.

[Andrew Fenton]

Andrew, $25/3 courses is Rx's Tuesday-Thursday everyday prix-fixe. Sort of bears out the OP's point. On the other hand, the UC promotion was multi-tiered. I don't think Dahlak was charging $25 per person.

True; I checked and Dahlak was charging $20, which I think is still more than a typical meal costs there.

Good to know about Rx's midweek prix fixe. And good to know that, unlike some other restaurants, they're able to maintain their standards even when they're mobbed during high-volume times like Restaurant Week.

[Capaneus]

Andrew, $25/3 courses is Rx's Tuesday-Thursday everyday prix-fixe. Sort of bears out the OP's point. On the other hand, the UC promotion was multi-tiered. I don't think Dahlak was charging $25 per person.

True; I checked and Dahlak was charging $20, which I think is still more than a typical meal costs there.

Good to know about Rx's midweek prix fixe. And good to know that, unlike some other restaurants, they're able to maintain their standards even when they're mobbed during high-volume times like Restaurant Week.

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I rarely spend more than $30 for two at Dahlak. Are you sure it wasn't $20 for two people? A number of the UC prices were per couple, at the lower end.

And I'll second the approval of Rx's prix fixe: a largely unheralded bargain, to my mind.