Obesity Vaccine Looks Promising

[Toliver]

The article on MSN.

The target of this vaccine is ghrelin, a recently discovered hormone that decreases energy expenditure and fat breakdown. Scientists at the Scripps Research Institute in California reported in this week's issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that they have developed a way to make the immune system produce antibodies that attack ghrelin, and that rats given the vaccine ate normally but lost weight.

It's not certain that a ghrelin vaccine would be effective against the burger-rich, high-fat diet that many Americans eat, the researchers noted.

So the key words "ate normally" doesn't necessarily mean a normal diet of fast food and saturated fats. You'd have to be on a low-fat, reduced calorie diet for the vaccine to show any results. It'd be a diet aid and not a cure-all in and of itself.

And if I recall my college bio-science courses correctly, doesn't the brain get a lot of its fuel from fat? What would this do to brain functions? Or is that not a concern with ghrelin?

Any SSB's out there to weigh in?

edited for spellling and to fix the link

Edited August 1, 2006 by Toliver (log)

[jgm]

Having done Fen-Phen, I'm a little older and wiser than before. But not thinner.

First, if it's a one-shot deal --or close to it-- that might be okay. But I learned from Fen-Phen that the drug may be great, but when you stop taking it, for whatever reason, you're back where you started. I'm not interested in falling into that trap again. Of course you tell yourself that once you get it off, you'll do whatever you have to do, to never gain it back, but the hunger and the cravings eventually get the better of you, and your best intentions go to hell.

And then there are the health effects. I got out of Fen-Phen with my heart intact but not my memory, and so when The Next Big Thing comes out, I'll let everybody else be guinea pigs for a few years, and see what happens.

[jsolomon]

SSB's? It seems to me that making a vaccine to have the body attack one of its own hormones could have pretty severe implications. There ought to be a better way to down-regulate the production of ghrelin than simply having the immune system attack and destroy it.

But, being someone who works in biotech on vaccines, I do take umbrage at the term "Franken-science". Especially given the normal issuances from media covering science. U.F.T., mostly.

Again, I am forced to ask, what is wrong with good old exercise and moderation?

[Tea Guy]

If the drug companies ever figure out a way to profit from "exercise and moderation" maybe you'll see more attention paid to it.

Wow, did that sound a little cynical?

Again, I am forced to ask, what is wrong with good old exercise and moderation?

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[Raoul Duke]

Yea, gimme the triple pattie whopper, gonzo fries, couple of them ranch dressings and ah, here let me drop my drawers for that vaccine stuff!

[jgm]

Again, I am forced to ask, what is wrong with good old exercise and moderation?

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Not a thing. But get with me after you hit oh, about 40-45, and we'll see if your perspective has changed.

When I went on Fen-Phen, I did a 1200 calorie per day diet, with a maximum of 20 fat grams. When the effectiveness of the drug started to wane, the hunger returned --with a vengeance. It takes a long, long time, and a lot of work, to reform one's eating habits in a meaningful way. If you try to do it too fast, and go on a radical diet (such as the 1200 calorie one I was on), the average mortal just can't sustain that big a change, over a short amount of time. But that's the only thing that produces identifiable (on the scale) results. If you change your eating habits more slowly, weight loss is much slower, and it's hard to see the benefit of what you're doing, and therefore hard to keep up your enthusiasm for the task. Serious dieters understand that the diet isn't over when all the weight is lost; the struggle to maintain the loss is just beginning.

Losing weight seems like it should be so easy. And so simple. And it's anything but. I've been fighting this battle for most of my life; I've found very little that works and a lot that doesn't. Currently, I'm trying to cook almost all my own food, to cut down on salt and cholesterol; and I'm also trying to get to the gym nearly every day. Although I'm determined to persevere, the house is falling into disarray, the friends are feeling jilted (including the one who just had a quadruple bypass and would love it if I'd visit), and my life, frankly, is a mess. I'm hoping it will all sort itself out. I only have a full-time job. If I had children, too, SRS probably would have already put them into foster care. If this vaccine comes out, I'll be watching to see how it goes. And after three or four years, if it still appears safe, I'll likely roll up my sleeve at the doctor's office. And breathe a big sigh of relief. The vaccine won't go to the gym for me; it will do no cooking; but it looks like it could relieve some frustration and some stress and make the whole thing easier. If it works, is affordable, and the side effects are minimal, it will be worth it.

Edited August 1, 2006 by jgm (log)

[Toliver]

SSB's? 

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An acronym bandied about on these forums...stands for Smug Scientific Bastards. No insult intended to anyone in particular, it's more a term of admiration for those who take the time to explain the science behind various food-related subjects that pop up on this board.

I was in hopes an SSB could explain the relationship between the brain and fat and the implications that this vaccine might have on this relationship.

[Bombdog]

Again, I am forced to ask, what is wrong with good old exercise and moderation?

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Not a thing.  But get with me after you hit oh, about 40-45, and we'll see if your perspective has changed.

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My first thought when I read the thread title was "Wow, is there really something to this?", and for a fleeting moment I envisioned myself seeking it out.

Then I thought about it further. You mean there is a new drug that would help me lose weight and keep it off and I wouldn't have to work out every day and watch what I eat? So, my cholesterol could climb back to unhealthy levels and even if I kept the weight off I could go back to feeling unhealthy and unable to run around the block.

Nah, I think I'll stick with what works naturally. I too cook 99 percent of my own food, watch my fat and salt intake, and run 5 miles a day, 6 days a week.

Weight loss isn't supposed to be easy or fast. It took me 9 months to lose 60 lbs, and I did it the old fashioned way. I don't count points or calories, I just eat 5-6 small meals a day with lots of fruit and lean protein, drink 100 oz of water a day AND exercise.

Oh yeah, I'll be 52 this month

[jgm]

You have the luxury of having a male metabolism. Obviously, you have to work at losing and maintaining weight, just like a woman does, but any doctor will tell you it's usually easier for men than for women. 60 pounds in 9 months is the kind of loss rate I had with Fen-Phen, and I do not expect to have anything near that with my current program. If I could get the benefit of running 5 miles a day, that would be great. But previous injuries and arthritis mean I have to use a more gentle form of exercise, which doesn't burn the calories that running does. If you develop a serious injury that keeps you from running for a few weeks or months, you might also have a change of opinion.

Even with the drug, I would not return to unhealthy eating habits. I would stay with a low-sodium, low saturated fat eating plan. I'm trying to think of it as a lifestyle change, not a temporary situation. Weighing 120 pounds wouldn't be much of an advantage if I had high cholesterol and blood pressure.

If an injection or series of injections made it come off a little faster, and made it a little easier to keep it off. . .and if the side effects were negligible. . .it would be great. Under normal circumstances, I am optimistic and confident about my ability to do this the old fashioned way. But normal circumstances aren't in the cards for me for the next several months or so, and that's if things don't go any worse than I think they will. But my anticipated challenges over the next several months could last for a few years. I would love it if, when there are times I can't be as careful as I'd like to be, I at least wouldn't lose ground.

Since my program is just beginning, I'm finding it pretty stressful to keep the appropriate groceries stocked in the kitchen... do the actual cooking... get to the gym 4 days a week (I also ride an exercise bicycle at home) ...keep the house up, the garden watered, the boss happy at work while we transition to a different corporate structure... do a few pleasurable things here and there... and occasionally drop everything to deal with certain life and family issues that can't be phoned in. I think that a month from now, it will be easier; 6 months from now, it will be much easier. But right now I'm kind of panicking over trying to keep everything going. And I haven't lost any weight for a month.

I'm not looking for a get-out-of-jail-free pass. But I wouldn't turn down a little help.

Oh, and there's that other thing. That cooking thing where I like to try new recipes, and new restaurants. That thing that keeps me addicted to eGullet. That doesn't fit in with losing weight particularly well. The skills I've gained are helpful. But in some ways, it would be soooooo much easier if I liked mediocre food.

Edited August 3, 2006 by jgm (log)

[Kouign Aman]

The vaccine sounds a bit scary in so many ways....

do we really need new auto-immune diseases?

Vaccines require enormous clinical trials, because in addition to showing they do what they are supposed to, it must also be demonstrated that they are safe. That takes a lot of test cases, since vaccines usually go into other-wise healthy people. Be interesting, if it gets that far, to see how many volunteers they get. I bet they have the fastest enrollment in the history of clinical trials. Somehow, I dont think it will get to that stage tho. So many differences between mice and men.

[MissAmy]

... in some ways, it would be soooooo much easier if I liked mediocre food.

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Not to be completely off topic, but I hear you. And I hear you again. And again. And then I hear you a thousand times over. Preach it, sister.

Like you, I would look into this new development if I knew the side effects were negligible. I've battled with my weight my entire life, my metabolism is completely shot due to a series of drastic fad diets resulting in extreme yo-yoing, and I've now embarked on yet another weight loss scheme. Hopefully it will work this time as it is not a fad but rather a gym membership and reduced calorie plan. However, if I knew I could target my fat gene and make the weight loss a little bit easier, I'd be all for it.

[Bombdog]

Most "experts" will tell you that 1.5 to 2 lbs a week is the optimum wt loss. 60 lbs in 9 months is below that figure. I too went through many plateaus when my metabolism adjusted. But I just kept at it.

I have had a total reconstruction to my left knee, have had arthroscopic surgery to my right knee, have 3 destroyed discs in my back and 2 bulging ones in my neck. I use very good running shoes and an extremely high quality tread mill that has sufficient give on the deck to cushion my back and knees.

I agree with you totally in that I have made the commitment to lower salt and eat healthier foods.

The toughest part for me was the first 6-8 weeks AND the part of giving up so much that I really like during my wt loss phase. Now that I am where I want to be I'm back to having all those things I missed and enjoyed. The difference is that now I know I can have it, just in moderation.

I have the luxury of having made my goal. But, I have to agree with you about a solution that would make it easier. It's easier for me to look back and see that I did it without any injection. I do know that if a fat guy like me can do it, you can too, without any risks of an unknown drug.