ISO: Recipe 4 Moto's "Fizzing & Foaming Hurricane"

[skidude72]

OK i dont know if this is acceted practice to ask for recipes.. but i was wondering if anyone knows how to make moto's fizzy daquri...

thanks

[Alchemist]

I have not had the Fizzy Daquri, but if I may hazzard a guess, using a classic recipie, put everything into a siphon, charge, and squirt.

[djsexyb]

Chef Cantu does a LOT with CO2 and the like, id put your question in this thread... http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST&f=36&t=35595

chef cantu is a egullet member and readdily talks about his amazing food and drinks. very nice guy

[skidude72]

the drink im intrested in appears in this article (second picture) http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/10/dining/1...serland&emc=rss

[cdh]

No mention of a fizzy daiquiri in there... do you mean the carbonated sphere of mojito?

Interesting challenge. First question is when to add the fizz--

What happens when a carbonated liquid is given the sodium alginate treatment?

Is the alginate skin gas-permeable so that exposing spheres to CO2 under pressure would dissolve gas into the insides?

This sounds like just the experiment to try out my new toys... sodium alginate, calcium chloride, and a homebrew kegging system. Once I master making the spheres, I'll fashion some sort of platform inside an empty keg on which to rest a few spheres, and then seal 'em in there and hit 'em with a few atmospheres of pressure for a few days to see what happens. Worst possible outcome is that they pop when the keg gets opened... the cocktail equivalent of getting the bends, I guess.

Edited August 1, 2006 by cdh (log)

[skidude72]

turns out i was talking abou the fizzing and foaming hurricane...

[cdh]

That one appears to be a simple acid-base reaction... the article says it is the vinegar and baking soda volcano trick.

The two difficulties would be figuring out what base (meaning alkaline, not mixed drink) to use, and how much of it. Chemistry and math... or a lot of trial and error.

I'd make the daiquiri to your taste, then dose it with some citric acid powder to up the acidity, then at service add just enough of the preferred base to react with the added citric acid and bring the drink back to where it was in the beginning.

To figure out your base, find out what basic ingredients are available and will react safely with citric acid, producing no toxic byproducts. Then mix some citric acid in some water and neutralize it out to pH 7, then give it a taste to see if you can detect/live with the reaction byproducts. Then start playing with your cocktail to figure out the most dramatic presentation of such a trick... a capsule of powdered base stuck to the bottom of the glass that dissolves and releases might be fun... but maybe a syringe of basic liquid injected into the middle of the drink would work too.

[djsexyb]

That one appears to be a simple acid-base reaction... the article says it is the vinegar and baking soda volcano trick.

The two difficulties would be figuring out what base (meaning alkaline, not mixed drink)  to use, and how much of it.  Chemistry and math... or a lot of trial and error.

I'd make the daiquiri to your taste, then dose it with some citric acid powder to up the acidity, then at service add just enough of the preferred base to react with the added citric acid and bring the drink back to where it was in the beginning.

To figure out your base, find out what basic ingredients are available and will react safely with citric acid, producing no toxic byproducts.  Then mix some citric acid in some water and neutralize it out to pH 7, then give it a taste to see if you can detect/live with the reaction byproducts.  Then start playing with your cocktail to figure out the most dramatic presentation of such a trick... a capsule of powdered base stuck to the bottom of the glass that dissolves and releases might be fun... but maybe a syringe of basic liquid injected into the middle of the drink would work too.

←

interesting...a few questions. i have some sodium citrate lying around here from Will Powder ( http://www.willpowder.net/citrate.html ) would that work as my acid? if not i can find a food grade citric acid easily, but what kind of base would i be looking for, any suggestions? thanks

Edited August 2, 2006 by djsexyb (log)

[cdh]

Citric acid is available cheaply and easily from homebrew and winemaking shops. Should go for around $3/lb. I don't think sodium citrate would work as an acid in this application... but you never can tell. Mix some up with water and hit it with a base. If it fizzes, you're good.

As to safe bases, only two I can think of are baking soda and hydrogen peroxide off the top of my head. Peroxide is simple enough that it might work, and is likely safe... certainly flavorless, and can be diluted with water down to concentration that works for your recipe... The real finesse is getting just enough of the base to only neutralize the added acid rather than wipe the acid out of the drink altogether.

Must get the formula of citric acid and see how it would react with H2O2 and what would be left over before I recommend you drink the byproducts of such a reaction.

Edited August 2, 2006 by cdh (log)

[djsexyb]

Citric acid is available cheaply and easily from homebrew and winemaking shops.  Should go for around $3/lb.  I don't think sodium citrate would work as an acid in this application... but you never can tell.  Mix some up with water and hit it with a base.  If it fizzes, you're good.

As to safe bases, only two I can think of are baking soda and hydrogen peroxide off the top of my head.  Peroxide is simple enough that it might work, and is likely safe... certainly flavorless, and can be diluted with water down to concentration that works for your recipe...  The real finesse is getting just enough of the base to only neutralize the added acid rather than wipe the acid out of the drink altogether.

Must get the formula of citric acid and see how it would react with H2O2 and what would be left over before I recommend you drink the byproducts of such a reaction.

←

gotcha, i would be leaning toward the baking soda. didnt my mother tell me not to drink hydrogen peroxide when i was a kid? diluted highly it might be ok, though. a ttrip down the block to walgreens and beverly's homebrew is in order. one more question, i havent had this drink at Moto, but am merely thinking of this possible uses of such a presentation, so if i were to do this like a daquari, would the reacton take place over the course of say 15mins, while the customer is drinking it, or does it progress faster, for presentation purpose only? ....ok i have to just get to testing this i guess....

[cdh]

Well, the magic is that there won't be any peroxide left if you balance the reaction right. It should break down into water and its spare oxygen atom should become part of the CO2 given off.

Citric acid is C6H8O7 and Peroxide is HOOH...

So the chemistry problem is C6H8O7 + HOOH --> ?

It looks like the OH should grab hold of some of the spare H (that makes the citric acid acidic) to form water, and the C and O should form some CO2... question is what's left after that happens.

We'd need to measure how much CO2 is given off to figure out how much of the C and O are turning into CO2, and that would tell us if they're turning into something else in there too.

[djsexyb]

yea, hmm, im going to email an old chem professor of mine to find out the products, then once i know what kind of base to use, recipe testing will ensue....

and do you have any idea if this takes place over time or all at once?

[cdh]

Likely all at once unless you do something to the base to slow it down.

My thought is a gelatin capsule at the bottom of the glass that dissolves and releases a base would allow for transport time from the bar to the patron.

Or maybe a basic liquid encapsulated in alginate skin... Dunno if that would work or not... or how long it would last. Maybe the drama becomes popping the alginate bubble at the table and letting it fizz.

Edited August 2, 2006 by cdh (log)

[cdh]

Just did an experiment with citric acid and baking soda... fizzes nicely, but leaves a bit of an Alka-Seltzer flavor... probably because it is just like Alka Seltzer.

IT also appears you need more baking soda by mass than citric acid to neutralize out, as it was still sour after 1/2 tsb of each went into my juice glass of water.

Edited August 2, 2006 by cdh (log)

[djsexyb]

ok, forget this peroxide, i didnt get the reaction, but i found something that would work better and i know is food safe, cream of tartar as an acid, single acting baking powder as a base.

NaHCO3 + KHC4H4O6 ----> KNaC4H4O6 + H2O + CO2

this only stipulation that i find is that you want a baking powder that does not contain sodium alluminum sulfate, although this is food safe, if my chemistry knkowledge serves me well it will create and alluminum precipitate, which wouldnt be good for a mixed drink, and needs to be heated slightly to make convert in entirely.

so heres what im thinking, find the right proportions of cream of tartar and baking powder (baking soda can also be used, but you would need a little more cream of tartar, because all baking powder is is baking soda with a little cream o TT added in.) and then serving options as follows:

1,) have the mixed powders( COT and baking powder) residing at the bottom of the glass, pour the liquid in (eh...)

2.)Have the drink (daiquiri) mixed with the cream of tartar in a martini glass and serve it with a shot glass of flavorful (non acidic) liquid with baking soda mixed in it and have the guest mix it in before consuming

[djsexyb]

Or maybe a basic liquid encapsulated in alginate skin... Dunno if that would work or not... or how long it would last. Maybe the drama becomes popping the alginate bubble at the table and letting it fizz.

oh good call, that'd be nice, i wish my new shipment of sodium alginate and cacl2 would get here already

going to runto the kitchen to try the cream of tartar mix.

[cdh]

let us know what happens...

[djsexyb]

ok first impressions...

i used simple lipton iced tea. dissolved 1/8th tsp cream of tartar in the 4oz iced tea, then dissolved 1/8th tsp baking soda in 10z water, mixed the two = not nearly enough fizz.

dissolved 1/4 tsp COT in 4oz tea, then dissolved 1/4tsp baking soda in 1oz water, then mixed the two = takes a while for the reaction to take place, happens over time, but only leaves a slight petillance (like drinking Albarino or Vinho Verde), and quite frankly, was nothing special, the taste was fine, baking osda slightly detectable but with a more flavored liquor, u wouldnt notice.

tried using lemon juice instead of COT (more H+ ions in lemon juice, should equal better comingling of substances, thus more or bigger co2 bubbles)

This worked better in most cases, but the reaction took place quickly (within only a few seconds) and if i was paying $12 for a daiquiri, that wouldnt impress me much.

cdh, when you did the citric acid how long was the fizz and what was the texture?

it appears that we need to find an acid/collection of acids that provides a bunch of fizz with lasting fizz. im sticking with baking soda for the base becuase it can be mixed in a liquid without reaction, unlike baking powder.

[cdh]

The fizz was quick, and was quite violent at the beginning, and subsided into a light effervescence that then dissipated. You need to isolate the baking soda so that it can't all react at once. Consider maybe making a caramel and stirring in some baking soda while it is liquid, then solidifying it in molds that would present well. That would probably lengthen the fizzing by sequestering the soda only to the exposed surfaces of the lozenge.

Better yet... coat the interior of the glass with the soda'ed caramel, and the fizzing would be evenly spread throughout the drink for as long as it takes all of the caramel to dissolve.

Edited August 2, 2006 by cdh (log)

[djsexyb]

ok im obsessed with getting this to work and i think i have the magic numbers...

1/2tsp baking soda mixed into 4oz water, put into a collins glass (i havent any martini glasses laying around), then i mixed 1/2oz lemon juice wuth 1/2 oz water, and 1/4tsp Cream of Tartar and out this into a tall shot glass.

i start mixing this two slowly at first and then the last half oz or so i dump into the glass. by doing this your introducing more air more quickly so it foams load and big for 10-15 seconds, then the rest of the lemon juice that you poured slowly takes over so you get streams of bubbles and by the time that runs out, then the COT kicks in and lets out slow streams of bubbles over, well its been almost ten minutes now, and the cool part is that when you take a sip, it introduces more air and the reaction fizzes more. Nice.

I will try this with some liquor latter to see if it still works well. and tastes good. i think one of the keys is to use a clear liquid so you can see more of the bubbles.

ill take pics and maybe a video...well see

[eje]

Hmmm...

Seems like a lot of work to go though, when, as Alchemist points out, you could just charge the drink with C02 in a siphon. Or is there some advantage to the chemistry angle I'm not seeing?

[cdh]

The chemistry is about dramatic presentation. Charge with too much CO2 in a siphon and you get big bubbles that rush to the surface... this trick is about small foamy bubbles that keep coming.

[djsexyb]

Hmmm...

Seems like a lot of work to go though, when, as Alchemist points out, you could just charge the drink with C02 in a siphon.  Or is there some advantage to the chemistry angle I'm not seeing?

←

the way i am thinking of this one, the allure of it would be mixing the two liquids (the one in the martini glass and the one in the shot glass) which are both clear and still and creating a vigorous reaction that catching the guests attention and continues to produce CO2 over a period of time, but yes charing a drink with CO2 would be a lot easiler.

[eje]

mmm...

I suppose it would be easier for service as well, as long as you can get the measurements accurate.

Don't have to keep extra cannisters around or keep charging them as you run out of hurricanes/daiquiris. Or have 50 of them chilled, if you are doing a banquet.

---

Oh, BTW, I will point you in the direction of the best hurricane recipe I've found so far:

Gumbopages Hurricane Recipe

Edited August 2, 2006 by eje (log)

[skidude72]

wow... alot of ideas, so ill share my own... what if you ground up a bunch of "poprocks" into a powder and melted it to the bottom of a glass with a butane torch... so it would slowly react wioth the drink and fizz?