Anatomy of a Dinner Party

[wkl]

could you just use a little of the fennel broth without foaming? or does the foaming process enhance or change the flavor?

could you serve the leftover fennel broth as a soup? maybe pour it around the leftover nicoise relish?

[hathor]

Shalmanese, thanks for the comments.  I will take them to heart.

Now, back to the soup. Andrew: did you cook the beets? I thought there was something with beets and raw cellulose that if you didn't cook them, your body couldn't access the vitamins/nutrition. Like with a raw potato.  It looks gorgeous. How did you make the fennel-orange sorbet? (uhhmmm...you did make it, right?  ).  I wound up making a fennel syrup that pretty much did the trick of keeping the fennel flavor 'intact'...not manipulated.

I'd never heard that about beets before; interesting. No, I didn't cook them. My idea was that the freezer would do the work of "cooking" the beets by breaking them down. It seemed to work all right, and it let me avoid using hot things in the kitchen.

I did make the sorbet: in fact, the inspiration came from your description of fennel granita in the Sicily thread. It sounds like we followed similar routes: I cooked the fennel in sugar syrup, then pureed and strained it a little and added it to the orange juice along with some fennel seed.

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Interesting. You are probably right about the freezing part. McGee didn't make it over here when I was packing up, now I'm sorry.

Please, try the fennel-rum. I want to know if: a) it's a fluke b) I've lost my marbles c)I've invented a combination as good as chocolate milk.

[hathor]

Melon question: In Italy, melon and prosciutto is a classic pairing. The melons here are excellent and the prosciutto is...well, it tastes like it was meant to taste. If you were to make melon soup, using the freezer technique, how would you bring in the prosuciutto element? I've gotten as far as thinking of making tiny little prosciutto/bread croutons. Anyone else inspired?

1. proscuitto panini / Shotglass of melon soup.

2. Fine dice of melon in the middle of bowl topped with a very thin proscuitto chip (dehydrated), soup around....

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Or you could let a chunk of the prosciutto dry out a bit and then shave some ham "dust" over the top of the soup with a microplane...

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Interesting ideas. I'm not sure about prousciutto dehydrated. I think you would wind up with jerkey, no matter how thin it was, and a concurrent loss of flavor. Maybe dust would work. Maybe it just needs to be in a shot glass and the prosciutto served as is. The melon puree is in the freezer right now, I'll report back in a day or so. Somehow I think the incredible sheep ricotta that I have access to might make a good bridge between the flavors. Something to ponder in the early morning before I get out of bed.... that's what we all do, ponder flavor combinations in our spare moments, right??

[wkl]

hathor,

in chicago at a restaurant named schwa, the chef makes a melon soup infused with prousciutto. i had it recently and it is quite good. the heartland forum has a thread on schwa. the chef, whose name escapes me now, was just featured in food and wine as a "best new chef". you may be able to glean some info on the thread or by googling.

[Pontormo]

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I looked only because I recognized the name of one commentator on the main board index and am a bit overwhelmed. I will definitely return. Meanwhile, I can't help but smile when looking at the photograph I've snipped here. Wish I could clip the following so you can see them side by side, but I am respecting the wishes of the online source. Scroll down to the second image below the text, the second box by Joseph Cornell. I only wish the picture's quality were superior:

Pantry Ballet (1942)

Uncanny, huh?

[Vadouvan]

I'm not sure about prousciutto dehydrated. I think you would wind up with jerkey, no matter how thin it was, and a concurrent loss of flavor

Not so Judy, it works brilliantly, it just has to be sliced superthin and dehydrated and it cracks like a potato chip. it actually intensifies the flavor.

I garnish Monkfish served with put lentils and pork shoulder croquettes with crisp Serrano ham.

I do the same with Mojama as a garnish for tuna tartare.

[percyn]

V,

How about dessert? Is the thought process and planning very different?

Thanks

Percy

[Vadouvan]

How about dessert? Is the thought process and planning very different?

Not really percy, suffice to say, the concept of dessert has evolved over the last 5 years.

Prior to that, the terms "Dessert" and "Pastry" intersected far more than they do now.

Now that people are finally realising that mastery of sweet and savory is to the benefit of both, you now have a lot of talented "pastry chefs" ...Will Goldfarb, Alex Stupak. et al who show much more brilliance than the typical pattisier. most desserts in restaurants in philly are sugar cluster bombs, deliciousness and appreciation can certainly not be dictated but nuance of flavor can.

A less sweet chocolate dessert for example (to me) tastes much better than an overly sweet one.

So that's my approach, sweetness that doesnt eclipse the brix level of the average muscat, sauternes, banyuls, trockenbeerenauslese, recioto soave, loupiac, Jurancon, Port and no silly inedible garnishes.......and above all, no garnishes constructed to look like an actual object such as spoons, cigars, pianos...ect ect.

[docsconz]

How about dessert? Is the thought process and planning very different?

Not really percy, suffice to say, the concept of dessert has evolved over the last 5 years.

Prior to that, the terms "Dessert" and "Pastry" intersected far more than they do now.

Now that people are finally realising that mastery of sweet and savory is to the benefit of both, you now have a lot of talented "pastry chefs" ...Will Goldfarb, Alex Stupak. et al who show much more brilliance than the typical pattisier. most desserts in restaurants in philly are sugar cluster bombs, deliciousness and appreciation can certainly not be dictated but nuance of flavor can.

A less sweet chocolate dessert for example (to me) tastes much better than an overly sweet one.

So that's my approach, sweetness that doesnt eclipse the brix level of the average muscat, sauternes, banyuls, trockenbeerenauslese, recioto soave, loupiac, Jurancon, Port and no silly inedible garnishes.......and above all, no garnishes constructed to look like an actual object such as spoons, cigars, pianos...ect ect.

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Vadouvan, I fully share your palate for dessert. i find that if they are too sweet, I am much less enamored of them. Sweet is fine, but it must be balanced with other components, the most important of which IMO is acid. It is that balance that makes a great dessert wine great (in addition to flavor complexity) and makes a dessert great as well.

As for the "trompe l'oiel" - like effects of desserts constructed to look like other objects, I think it depends entirely on the object, the context, the artistry and the spirit in which it is offered. I still have very fond memories of the clever and delicious "club sandwich" dessert I had at Chez L'Epicier in Montreal in which the the dessert appeared to be a typical deli sandwich platter with the sandwich, fries and cole slaw, but each was a component of the dessert.

[Vadouvan]

As for the "trompe l'oiel" - like effects of desserts constructed to look like other objects, I think it depends entirely on the object, the context, the artistry and the spirit in which it is offered. I still have very fond memories of the clever and delicious "club sandwich" dessert I had at Chez L'Epicier in Montreal in which the the dessert appeared to be a typical deli sandwich platter with the sandwich, fries and cole slaw, but each was a component of the dessert.

SUP Doc....

Fully agree with you, its just been in my experience, when I see chocolate cigars and what not, it always ends up that the attempt to make it look as realistic like a cigar makes it taste like crap.

I wanna see a Reuben and matzoh ball soup dessert............

Edited August 5, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[Megan Blocker]

1.

Ugly huh......ughhhh !

I disagree. I actually dislike the current trend of plain white dishes. Probably because I eat mostly ethnic food, many of which match better with non-white dishes.

That second plate from the top looks really nice, and would look even better topped with a pile of Indian curry.

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Erm, dunno...I like some patterned plates (my mom has some rimmed in a little navy enamel and some gold leaf that are just beautiful, and that don't detract from or clash with the food), but those plates are just not attractive. IMHO, of course...

Though I do think that plain white or off-white plates are the most versatile everyday ware, if only because they go with everything...

[Vadouvan]

The teacup/demitasse (rosenthal versace-barrocco) actually works well for a carrot or butternut soup if you perch it dead center in the middle of a bernadaud shogun plate.

Otherwise, the plates and chargers are just too busy.

Since this was last posted, I was handed a TRU cookbook and apparently Tramonto uses this stuff....

[alanamoana]

...pattisier...

...trockenbeerenauslese...

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first, i love this thread! very fun to watch you cook vadouvan.

second, i really love that you can't spell patissier but you can spell trockenbeerenauslese with no problems...

and another thought about desserts in general: i certainly appreciate the type of desserts that sam mason, alex stupak et al are putting out, but that is a particular style of cooking. the dessert menu has to match the cuisine of the restaurant as a whole via flavor profile and technique (you're not going to the cheesecake factory to get celery sorbet with peanut butter powder, are you? but i do understand the need for balance.). pastry chefs like claudia fleming were making more traditional desserts a long time ago that offered that nice balance between sweet and savory that is so often lacking. although, i guess back then she would have been considered revolutionary.

and just what is wrong with a tuile spoon? (i can't believe they still sell templates for that crap).

Edited August 5, 2006 by alanamoana (log)

[Vadouvan]

second, i really love that you can't spell patissier but you can spell trockenbeerenauslese with no problems...

That's because "pattisiers" are fast becoming extinct.

Seriously when was the last time you saw a gateau St. honore or l'opera........

Dont forget Paris-Brest or croquembouche........

edited to add....

Not to be confused with boulangiers.....is that spelled right

Edited August 6, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[alanamoana]

it'll all come around again...you know the japanese love that french stuff!

it's funny that they want to teach people that stuff in culinary school but nobody ever ends up making it!

same can be said of a lot of old school meat dishes: wellington anyone? pate en croute? if patissiers are endangered species than dishes like that will really disappear because the chef is always running over to pastry to ask them to make some dough "for a special i want to run".

but i gues we're straying off topic.

please continue with your cooking demos! much more interesting than any show on ftv, that's for sure. and maybe we should just start a thread for photos of mise en place, that's the best. the other day i had a bunch of stuff peeled, cleaned, chopped, diced, minced, etc. laying around to make something and i thought about what a pleasure it is to see a nice bunch of mise!

[Vadouvan]

you know the japanese love that french stuff!

you got that right, if it wasnt for the japanese, a lot of old school BS would be extinct.

Why else would there be a Taillevent-Robuchon in Japan ?????

and.....basically, if it wasnt for female japanese tourists, Hermes and burberry would be out of business............

Edited August 6, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[matthewj]

It is funny tha you mention Paris Brest. V . The pastry chef at joel made on the other day for the wekly menu, it was Auesome. Did you know where the name came from? Question of the week.

[Vadouvan]

Bike Racing, I have watched Paris Brest and Paris -Roubaix.....several times.

[Jeff L]

you know the japanese love that french stuff!

you got that right, if it wasnt for the japanese, a lot of old school BS would be extinct.

Why else would there be a Taillevent-Robuchon in Japan ?????

and.....basically, if it wasnt for female japanese tourists, Hermes and burberry would be out of business............

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You might be able to add Louis Vuitton to that list. Last year my wife and I stood on line at the LV flagship store in Paris waiting for a salesgirl to buy a bag for one of our daughters. I could not believe how many Japanese women were in the line waiting to pay, some with 3 and 4 bags worth at least $500 a clip.

I'm off topic here but do please continue on with your ideas, techniques and methods of execution. I'm finding this is picking up where Tony Bourdain leaves off in his Kitchen Confidential book. Speaking of books, I for one, think this topic would make a very interesting book for the same reason I enjoyed reading Tony's books - I'm not in the business and it provides a very interesting look into high end restaurant kitchens. Got an agent yet V?

[docsconz]

This thread is pretty incredible. Now the Pennsylvania Forum has at least two of the greatest eGullet threads ever. Vadouvan (and others), the knowledge shared here is incredible. Thank you.

Edited August 6, 2006 by docsconz (log)

[Jeff L]

This thread is pretty incredible. Now the Pennsylvania Forum has at least two of the greatest eGullet threads ever. Vadouvan (and others), the knowledge shared herre is incredible. Thank you.

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Doc, I assume the 2nd thread is the SK one

[docsconz]

This thread is pretty incredible. Now the Pennsylvania Forum has at least two of the greatest eGullet threads ever. Vadouvan (and others), the knowledge shared herre is incredible. Thank you.

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Doc, I assume the 2nd thread is the SK one

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In my opinion

[Jeff L]

This thread is pretty incredible. Now the Pennsylvania Forum has at least two of the greatest eGullet threads ever. Vadouvan (and others), the knowledge shared herre is incredible. Thank you.

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Doc, I assume the 2nd thread is the SK one

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In my opinion

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Mine too and I think this thread provides more insight and knowledge than the SK thread as V is sharing his techniques with us. SK thread has some pretty fine pictures and descriptions of amazing meals but stops short of actually imparting the knowledge of Shola's techniques for the most part.

Keep it coming I say

[davecap]

While on the subject of chemical manipulation, Alex mentioned the use ofmethylcellulose above. Can you clue us in when/why this substance is useful? I know you are not a fan of horseplay with alginates but it sounds like lecithin and methylcellulose are things that have a place in your kitchen.

[hathor]

Vadouvan, I was thinking of you today...oxtail tortellini for lunch. I served them in a tomato-ginger soup with a scoop of fresh pepperoncino ricotta. Very rustico style....but, then again, I'm living in the birthplace of rustico.

Hope you are enjoying your holiday!