Learning about Baking in Asia

[FanGJiN]

I am a hotel management student,the reason i study this course is i want to learn more things about cooking and baking,but after a while i found that the course that i study is not what i am expected.I though that i will be concerning more in cooking and baking tech,but i learn very less thing about it,even though i m a specialise student.Everyweek i only have 8 hour practical class,4 hour kitchen,4 hour pastry but is not enough,everyclass we learn 1 pastry recipe and kitchen class we learning 3 course meal.

So i hope i can get some precious info for furthur study about baking tech,because i am going to finish my coure on end of december.

I am from Asia,Malaysia.So i prefer study somewhere nearby Asia.Prefer Singapore and Malaysia.I have find many info about it,but i couldn't find the school info in Asia.

Thank you very much.

***MOD if i posted it in a wrong place please correct my mistake,because i don't know where to post this type of question post.

[alanamoana]

i don't know how it works in asia, but your best bet would be supplement your studies with a part time job in a specialized pastry shop. if you can't find that, there are plenty of hotels in malaysia that probably have high end pastry production. you can learn while gaining valuable work experience.

unfortunately, i don't know of any schools in asia. fortunately, eGullet has a lot of people posting from around the world, so someone can help!

[FanGJiN]

actually i also plan to go to work for others,my problem is i think that i still haven't reach the level to work for others,cos i am juz learning those basic's thing in my college.i am 19 years old this year.

I trained in hotel before,i think i have been to the lousy's one,i cannot learn much thing at there,all their bread is "import" from other shop one,they sell them the dough then they juz need to bake it.

haha..that is the reason i come here to ask for help...this forum gather all the food's lover all over the world.hopefully someone can give me some precious idea...

10s for ur reply alanamoana...

[miladyinsanity]

FangJin, what exactly are you looking for? A professional pastry course?

Also, Tepee, or maybe NickLam, will have a better idea of what's available in the region.

[NickLam]

FangJin, what exactly are you looking for? A professional pastry course?

Also, Tepee, or maybe NickLam, will have a better idea of what's available in the region.

←

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but its worth a shot.

In Singapore, you have At-Sunrice (Do a websearch on yahoo.sg). Pastry wise, nothing on that, but a culinary school being increasingly taken more seriously in our region.

Of course, Prima and its Baking Institute, or BITC at www.bitc.com.sg. I've done a few courses there over the past couple of years including the bakery and patisserie course, bread course and chocolate course. All in all, a pretty well equipped place, but maybe not so well organised or managed. However, you will learn quite a bit there and is in my opinion training 'employable' bakers. You won't get much creativity there as the people I've met usually see bakery as a means to an end, not a means of expression. Those and the occasional housewives or over-laboured executive looking for a career change.

I got a feeling you are already in Shatec in Singapore, and I do know an Indonesian graduate who is going into the pastry field. Once again, according to her, most of her classmates are not self driven and do not really have that much passion......pastry being a means to a steady paycheck.

If you are interested in chocolate, go beg and beg and beg Geert Renmans at http://www.maison-gerard.com. This guy has passion, skill and is quite a nice guy. I say quite....coz as with every great chef.....you don't wanna piss them off. He left Win Sin (The largest factory praline/truffle maker in Singapore) as well as a high profile position at the Prestigious Les Amis group coz they were stifling him and just pissing him off by being idiots. Now thats his side of the story, but meeting the guy and eating his chocolates, I am absolutely impressed. A guy for the cause and might be big in Asia soon. He doesn't do formal lessons, but maybe if you beg hard enough.....

Over here in Thailand, the ones I can think of are

(1) Suan Dusit Culinary School

http://www.chefschool.dusit.ac.th/course_e.html

(2) UFM Bakery School

http://www.ufmfc.com/new/English/businesses.php

The Dusit school is quite prestigious in Thailand and may be worth a shot. But once again, you will be surrounded by people who are mostly studying for steady employment. I'm pretty sure you will get one or two firestarters here and there, but TBH, I almost hired one graduate from a better than average Thai family and we decided to pass him up. Our mate who intro'ed him told us after that he confided to her that if we paid 1000 baht more, he would jump ship. Bye bye birdy.

I also know one of their head instructors...who single handedly made a success of the first Paulaner Brauhaus a roaring success. Unfortunately, he too is blinded by money and not the passion for his craft.

As for UFM, they have a really large bakery school here and they are similar to BITC in Singapore.

Don't really have any experience with them other than dropping in and taking a look around. But, the people there are really hardworking and the students seem to be very serious about their studies, which is a good thing. Creativity wise? Not so sure.

For Manila, check out www.iscahm or International School for Culinary Arts and Hotel Management. No experience whatsoever with them, just read about them from Pastry Art and Design Asia Pacific Vol2, Issue 1, 2006. The one with Eric Perez on the cover and downloadable from www.chefmags.com. Go to page 42.

As for other parts of Asia, you will have to go looking.......if you can afford it, Japan is definitely a place to consider. Maybe Hiroyuki or some of our members in Japan can help you out in this. There is the Hattori Nutrition Centre and a few other famous ones who may or may not have pastry courses. With the amount of pastry-chefs there, I doubt it'd be that hard to find a good school.

Perhaps in our part of Asia, we cannot expect a CIA or Le Cordon Bleu or Bellouet Counseil or Ecole Lenotre. But its slowly changing and perhaps the level of pastry and desserts in SE Asia will improve.

All the best in your journey and I hope you will be able to find a school that will fit your requirements.

Cheers.

Nick.

[donyeokl]

Fangjin,

There's another place called the Raffles Culinary Academy under the wings of Raffles Hotel. Its a 2 years course with attachment/hands-on in various positions in the hotel culinary setup. Its quite costly though but it should do you good...

Cheers...

Don

[FanGJiN]

haha...thanks for all your reply,i prefer malaysia because don't wanna stay away too far,i have think before go to taiwan furthur pastry,but due to their politic is unstabble and i scare if i go other country furthur study,the malaysian is not used to overseas bakery product,as what i know other country's people world like to have crispy pastry,but most malaysian wouldn't prefer crispy pastry product,even my canadien lecturer also don't know why.

i study in taylors college KL.if i go for those proffesional pastry course,do they provide management tools for us also?because i also need to know how to manage 1 business.

To Mr NickLam i have 1 question is if i go to thailand furthur study,they teach in english or thailand language...because i know chinese,malaysia and english only.

thanks you guys very much for your information,i really appreaciate it.

[donyeokl]

Fangjin,

I forgot to add, Raffles Culinary Academy is in Singapore which is not too far away from Malaysia and I think the taste between Singapore and Malaysia do not differ much...

Cheers...

Don

[FanGJiN]

yeah,i also head raffles before,from my house to singapore need 1 and half hour only.

[NickLam]

FangJin,

Perhaps Malaysians are not used to foreign tastes and products, but that should not stop you from exploring the world around us and all the wonderful influences it can have. Take Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore for example, the most familiar for you as it borders your country.

Everything we have is a hodgepodge of different cuisines and influences. Even here in Thailand, where everyday, people tell us, 'Thais won't like dark chocolate....or this is too sophisticated for Thais....etc..etc...'

Personally, I don't believe in that crap. Thailand's most successful foreign entrepreneur, Bill Heinecke of the Minor Food Group was the first person to bring the Pizza Hut franchise into Thailand. Everyone got their claws into him, trying to pull him down by saying...."Thai's don't have a culture of taking dairy products, so they will NOT eat cheese. You will fail, Bill."

Well, these naysayers can see for themselves how wrong and arrogant they were to assume things. Bill Heinecke continues to be our role model and 'mentor' in pushing the chocolate envelope in Thailand.

We've fed people who drive cars and live in houses we can only wish to one day attain in the next lifetime, and these people, with 'sophisticated' tastes, can't tell the difference between cadbury's dark and Cacao Barry's Mi-Amere.

A high society girl, when swiping some leftover chocolate glaze made with Ville and Eire cream infused with grade AAA Bourbon Vanilla from PNG emulsified into Cacao Barry Mi-Amere had one comment to say. Tastes like Ovaltine and that Fudge Cake glaze from Kalaprapruek (Which is powdered glaze and genoise in a box that comes from my friend's food company).

Were we offended? Of course. We pour our passion and heart into everything only for people with supposedly sophisticated tastes compare us to what we would deem as rubbish. But that doesn't stop us from trying to educate people and change the tastes, being the forefront of this revolution we hope to create in Thailand. We don't lose our cool (Publicly...but bitch incessantly in private), but instead, work harder instead.

I believe Malaysia is absolutely the same as Thailand and this shouldn't stop you from learning about foreign food and pastries. Of course we will have to tweak here and there to accomodate to local tastes, but only minimally to 'break them in'. But in the end, it is an uphill battle that passionate chefs from France to America to Singapore to Australia are fighting. Changing people's tastes and perceptions.

As for travelling overseas, it is not as dangerous as it sounds. The first step is the hardest and once you take that step, you will be exposed to things beyond your expectations and totally change your way of thinking. When I took my first step out of Singapore, it was the hardest decision I've ever made and fear totally overtook me. Now, living in a foreign country means only one thing....something to look forward to and more fun to be had.

Living overseas is fun and you learn so much. Is Taiwan dangerous coz thats what the papers say? I'd say Malaysia is equally dangerous. My mate's car got stolen in Johor, another got chased by a car gang after he overtook one car to make a turn on an unfamiliar road. My friend's dad got his window smashed at a traffic light and only his protective kris saved him. In recent times, some Singaporeans have been shot, murdered and robbed in Malaysia. As a non-Malaysian, it does scare me a little, but you're used to it and just don't fear it. Just like any traveller going to a foreign country. After a while, you get used to it.

I'm afraid of living in New York coz of all the things I've heard, and a million bucks says the New Yorkers reading this will tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. And they are absolutely right.

As for UFM, they do have classes in English, go through the english segment of the website and you will find it.

[FanGJiN]

yeah,i get what you mean,don't care what people said,just learn as much as you can,try to change the taste that they like it.

everyplace have war,have robber,politic got problem,see whether are you the lucky person won't facing those problem,really thank you very much giving me this advice,because i actually plan to go taiwan at 1st,but my parent says that there is very dangerous,very hard for me to find some reason to make them let me go to taiwan.but now you sharing some pastry school with me,i am interest in UFM n BITC.Make me have more choices to choose where i need to go.

Really thank you very much for ur reply...this monday i might go back i go and talk to my parent.hehe...By the way, the UFM's school fee i need to request from them one is it?i only see their products only,but they have say that they have baking school.

[NickLam]

yeah,i get what you mean,don't care what people said,just learn as much as you can,try to change the taste that they like it.

everyplace have war,have robber,politic got problem,see whether are you the lucky person won't facing those problem,really thank you very much giving me this advice,because i actually plan to go taiwan at 1st,but my parent says that there is very dangerous,very hard for me to find some reason to make them let me go to taiwan.but now you sharing some pastry school with me,i am interest in UFM n BITC.Make me have more choices to choose where i need to go.

Really thank you very much for ur reply...this monday i might go back i go and talk to my parent.hehe...By the way, the UFM's school fee i need to request from them one is it?i only see their products only,but they have say that they have baking school.

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If I'm not mistaken, the UFM international programme is only offered on specific dates every year. I'd suggest calling them instead of emailing them as they may not reply as is the norm here. They will have staff that can speak english.

Right now, I'd suppose your best bet is to go check out BITC in Singapore as it is the most easily accessible to you. Since you are quite near, get to Woodlands or Kranji MRT station in Singapore after you cross the causeway. Take a train to HarbourFront station all the way across Singapore. That should be a good hour to hour and 15 minutes ride.

From the station, BITC is a 5 to 10 minute walk.

Another alternative is to take the Malaysia to Singapore bus that will bring you all the way to the bus terminal near Bugis. From there, it is a 15 to 20 minute train ride.

Or, you can take the Malaysia-Singapore train that stops at Tanjong Pagar Train Station. From there, it is only a short bus ride down the road to BITC.

So maybe....you are looking at a 3 hour ride in and out of Singapore daily.

Check out BITC first, go talk to the people there and see if you like it. It might be a more conducive place for you to learn as there are many Malaysians there too.

While you are there, follow Don's suggestion and check out the Raffles Culinary Academy too. Can't really go wrong there.

Lastly, if you can afford it and not really after formal certificates, hop on a plane over to Savour Chocolate and Patisserie School in Melbourne. www.savourschool.com.au. They offer short courses.

Also, check out the William Angliss TAFE as well. http://www.angliss.vic.edu.au/ William Angliss has representatives in Kuala Lumper's IDP, so go look them up. I've been there several times when I was living in Melbourne and it seems to be really well run, up to date and dynamic.

Temporary lodging if you decide to take a short course at Savour would be between 18 to 26 AUD a night. If long term rent to study at William Angliss, it'll be around AUD$350 to 600 a month, depending on where you stay.

If you cook your own meals, living expenses will be really really cheap. If you eat out, really really expensive (On average, $6 to 7 for a bowl of noodles). But, you can get a job there in a restaurant waiting tables or once you get your food handling cert, a kitchen hand or line cook. You will be able to work 20hours a week and will definitely be able to earn enough to support yourself there. You'll be looking at AUD$16 to 17 per hour as a wait staff before tips. Thats around $1200 a month before taxes. After taxes, you will have more than enough to pay for rent, utilities, transport, food and the occasional night out.

Now, this is a considerably bigger step than coming to Thailand or Singapore to study, but you will definitely learn much more, make more important international connections and gain more confidence in yourself. The catch.....its further and more expensive.

If you wanna consider Melbourne, go to the nearest IDP and get more info. PM me if you wanna know more bout living in Melbourne.

Cheers!

[miladyinsanity]

If you're looking at Australia, there's also the Sydney campus of Le Cordon Bleu.

I remember reading a blog written by a Malaysian who's going there to study Patisserie. I can try and track it down if you're interested.