Sugar paranoia

[mbanu]

"You call THAT a Whiskey Sour? Back in the old days they just squeezed a couple of lemons into some barrel-proof bourbon and they LIKED IT that way! They shook their fists at the sugar bag, of course, that was the tradition, but there was none of this sickly sweet soda-shop pancake syrup crap like there is nowadays..."

Has anyone else got the impression that some classic cocktail fans seem to have an almost pathalogical dislike of sweetness and weakness in drinks, even when they are required in order to produce a balanced drink?

What's up with that? Are they just taking Embury too seriously? Have they not actually made the drinks following the recipes they suggest? Some weird sort of masochism?

[slkinsey]

mbanu, I'm curious... where did your quote come from. Is it an actual quote -- in which case I think it's likely misguided -- or is is a strawman to illustrate your point?

FWIW, I do think that many, but not all classic cocktail enthusiasts tend towards drier and stronger. That's certainly my preference, although that is not to say that there aren't sweeter and weaker cocktails that I admire and appreciate. I'm actually quite fond of long drinks and silver fizzes.

In terms of many of the leading cocktailians with whose work I am familiar (Audrey, Dave, Gary, Dale, Julie, Robert, etc.) I'd say that the preference for strong and sour over sweet and weak is not especially prevalent. Several of them have a definite sweet tooth.

And, of course, it is a fact that bars do serve an awful lot of (usually vodka-based) sickly sweet soda-shop pancake syrup crap nowadays.

[eje]

mbanu,

Do you have any examples? Specific websites or books?

I actually find, when I am out at bars, most people drink pretty sweet cocktails and most bars have pretty sweet cocktail menus.

I guess the only real exception I can think of is the dry martini phenomenon. Most places, if you order a martini, you'll get only a dash of vermouth or even a vermouth wash on your glass. Other than that it is a big glass of vodka or gin. When I ask for a 1-4 Martini, even if they are making it with top shelf vermouth, bartenders often look at me like I am some sort of alien. Sometimes, I do find the dry martini proportions cross over to other classic cocktails like Manhattans or, even worse, Negronis, and you only get a dash of campari and/or vermouth.

~Erik

Edited June 2, 2006 by eje (log)

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

I've wondered about similar things, myself, and the only thing I could come up with is that the better quality of liquor used, the less "cutting" it needs. In other words, you'd be unlikely to want to make "cocktails" with a $140 bottle of single malt scotch; you'd drink it neat or, at most, on the rocks. And as for the weak and sweet thing, what comes to mind is tequila and margaritas. If I'm lucky enough to get the husband to spring for a bottle of Porfidio or Gran Patron Platinum, I'm going to want some fresh juices, a dash of Cointreau (a personal preference,) and just a drop of simple syrup. If I'm making an 8 gallon batch of margaritas for a huge Saturday night bonfire party and am constrained to use Cuervo, I'll be doing so with a full-fledged sour mix. I'll make that sour mix from scratch, but it's going to be stronger and sweeter in order to compensate for the lesser quality of the tequila than what I'd use with the better liquor.

This may or may not be what you're getting at, but it's what leapt to my mind. It could, of course, be something as simple as that some folks think it's "sissified" to add sweetness or to weaken the alcoholic bang.

[mbanu]

mbanu, I'm curious... where did your quote come from.  Is it an actual quote -- in which case I think it's likely misguided -- or is is a strawman to illustrate your point?

←

The quote was a parody of a certain style of rhetoric that seems to get passed around in classic cocktail circles.

Examples might include the Martini Republic's recent column on the virtues of the CocktailDB Whisky Sour (ratios 1 1/2 ounces whisky, 1 ounce lemon juice, and 1/2 a teapsoon sugar), magazine articles that throw around phrases like "Used to be a daiquiri was just a healthy shot of white rum plus half a lime squeezed right into a cocktail shaker (no machine) and just enough sugar to take the sour edge off. Nothing to it. That's how JFK and Hemingway liked 'em, and they weren't wrong." (with apologies to the author), or a recent eGullet post where someone explained away another's dislike of a Gimlet made with only fresh lime juice(!) instead of Rose's as the fault of "the soda-fixation of our culture".

Edited June 2, 2006 by mbanu (log)

[ThinkingBartender]

I think that you are assuming that because someone dislikes overly sweet drinks that they must therefore want all their drinks to be sour, which is not the case.

The amount of sour in a drink, usually older styles of drink or just the older recipes, was used to bring out the flavour of the spirit used.

Authentic Daiquiri recipes for example used only the juice of half a lime, whereas nowadays they seem to use twice as much lime juice, and therefore have to include more sugar to compensate for this. I think that the reason for people using twice as much lime in a Daiquiri is that they are reluctant to look at the "original" recipes and see what they were trying to achieve. Lazy people just try to assume that a Daiquiri is a Rum Sour made with lime, but this is not the case at all.

How would these same people go about recreating Jerry Thomas' many brandy+lemon juice+curacoa recipes? Would they take the lazy route and assume that they must all be made in the same way, and must all be so-called "New Orleans Sours", why yes they would.

Brandy Daisy

(Use small bar-glass.)

* Take 3 or 4 dashes of gum syrup.

* 2 or 3 dashes of Curacoa cordial

* The juice of half a small lemon.

* 1 small wine-glass of brandy.

* 2 dashes of Jamaica rum.

Fill glass one-third full of shaved ice. Shake well, strain into a large cocktail glass, and fill up with Seltzer water from a syphon.

Brandy Sour

(Use small bar-glass.)

* Take 1 large tea-spoonful. of powdered white sugar,

* dissolved in a little Apollinaris or Seltzer water.

* The juice of half a lemon.

* 1 dash of Curacoa.

* 1 wine-glass of brandy.

Fill the glass with shaved ice, shake, and strain into a claret glass. Ornament with orange and berries

Brandy Crusta

(Use Small bar-glass.)

* Take 3 or 4 dashes of gum syrup.

* 1 dash of Boker's bitters.

* 1 wine-glass of brandy.

* 2 dashes of Curacoa.

* 1 dash lemon juice.

Before mixing the above ingredients, prepare a cocktail glass as follows: Rub a sliced lemon around the rim of the glass, and dip it in pulverized white sugar, so that the sugar will adhere to the edge of the glass. Pare half a lemon the same as you would an apple (all in one piece) so that the paring will fit in the wine-glass, as shown in the cut. Put the above ingredients into a small whiskey glass filled one-third full of shaved ice, shake up well and strain the liquid into the cocktail glass prepared as above directed.

Brandy Fix

(Use small bar-glass.)

* Take 1 large tea-spoonful of fine white sugar dissolved

* in a little water.

* The juice of a quarter of a lemon.

* 3 dashes of Curacoa.

* 1 wine-glass of brandy.

Fill the glass two-thirds full of shaved ice. Stir well and ornament the top with slices of lemon or lime.

Tom Collins Brandy

(Use small bar-glass.)

* Take 5 or 6 dashes of gum syrup.

* Juice of a small lemon.

* 1 large wine-glass of Brandy.

* 2 or 3 lumps of ice;

Shake up well and strain into a large bar-glass. Fill up the glass with plain soda water and imbibe while it is lively.

Brandy Fizz

(Use medium bar-glass.)

* Take 1 tea-spoonful of powdered white sugar.

* 3 dashes of lemon juice.

* 1 wine-glass of brandy.

* 1 small lump of ice.

Fill up the glass with Apollinaris or Seltzer water, stir thoroughly and serve.

Another interesting set of examples to use would be the Caipirinha and the Ti-Punch. The Caipirinha is Cachaca and Lime sweetened with sugar, while the Ti-Punch appears to be Rum and sugar freshened with Lime.

Sugar covers alot of the flavour of a spirit if used to excess, sour doesn't do that.

Cheers!

George

[kvltrede]

...Examples might include the Martini Republic's recent column on the virtues of the CocktailDB Whisky Sour (ratios 1 1/2 ounces whisky, 1 ounce lemon juice, and 1/2 a teapsoon sugar), magazine articles that throw around phrases like "Used to be a daiquiri was just a healthy shot of white rum plus half a lime squeezed right into a cocktail shaker (no machine) and just enough sugar to take the sour edge off. Nothing to it. That's how JFK and Hemingway liked 'em, and they weren't wrong." (with apologies to the author), or a recent eGullet post where someone explained away another's dislike of a Gimlet made with only fresh lime juice(!) instead of Rose's as the fault of "the soda-fixation of our culture".

←

I'd agree with Mbanu that the Whiskey Sour recipe from CocktailDB seems likely to be a bit tart but I'd have to shake one up to be sure. It's worth mentioning, though, that the drink is called the Whiskey Sour . Also CocktailDB's source material is anything but contemporary as regards older potations so if this Whiskey Sour is too tart it isn't because of some modern cocktalian prejudice against sugar but instead is the work of Jerry Thomas or some other titan from whom Doc cribbed this recipe. Regardless, I think I'd start with the "Whiskey, Sour" recipe at CocktailDB instead.

The daiquiri recipe sounds just right to me. I may be misinterpreting the author's intent but to me "just enough sugar to take the sour edge off" means "just enough sugar to make a balanced cocktail". Since the author doesn't provide an exact amount we need not argue whether "just enough" means a bar-spoon, a teaspoon or a tablespoon of the sweet stuff but, for me, a scant teaspoon is just right so long as the lime juice is fresh and the rum is good.

Kurt

[Splificator]

As the author of that "used to be a daiquiri" quote I guess I'm one of the purveyors of this "certain style of rhetoric." Huh. All I'm going to say is that my dislike of sweetness ain't "pathalogical" [sic]. George and Kurt both got it right--just enough, not too much, different for every drink.

I don't think that's too unreasonable.

And, for the record, I make and taste every recipe that I publish, and not one of them has been swiped from David Embury.

[trillium]

I find most "cocktails" at most bars to be one-note sweet. A good cocktail should be a nice balance of sweet and sour. I do think people have lost the ability to appreciate sour or bitter and it is thanks to an enormous surge in soda drinking, which is mainly just about sugar. Just look at Coke, a whopping 39 grams of sugar in a can.

regards,

trillium

[eje]

I keep trying to think of some sort of combined cogent answer to mbanu's question, and can't come up with a single consistent answer.

First, there is a long history of very sweet drinks in the US. Just look at the various "angel" drinks or Pousse Cafes, which are really nothing but stacked liqueurs. Sweet drinks are nothing new.

Second, Embury, self admittedly was almost solely concerned with what he described as dry aperitif cocktails. He admitted there were other types of mixed drinks; but, only grudgingly admitted them to his book.

To me, though, the value of Embury isn't his curmudgeonly take on liquor brands or recipes. It is the "roll your own" aspect of the book. I think he was the first author to say, "Here are some rules for cocktails, knock yourself out. You don't have to be an ordained high priest to present the sacrament of the old-fashioned or sazerac."

Third, I guess a lot of us feel like we are struggling back from what we considered the sickly sweet drinks of the 1980s and 90s. I know they still serve horrible slushy margaritas on Bourbon Street and such; but, oh, the headaches those drinks remind me of. Ouch.

Fourth, is vodka. Tasteless, flavorless, inebriation. I know it is popular in many circles. Personally, I like the flavor of a well made tequila, gin, rum, or whisk(e)y, and I want to enjoy the flavor of those spirits in whatever cocktail I enjoy, not drown them in sweetness or fruit.

I have to believe that the quality and variety of spirits and cocktail ingredients that we enjoy in this modern world surpasses any that was enjoyed at any point in past ages. Especially the variety of spirits and freshness of ingredients.

It is up to all of us, bartenders, cocktailians, and enthusiasts to craft the cocktails that express the spirit of our age.

Maybe, some of the recipes I make up or favor are on the dry side. Anyone can disagree. Unless you are over at my house for a dinner party. Then it would be nice if you enjoyed yourself. If you don't like the cocktails, there's usually plenty of beer.