Menus dropping the currency symbol

[Kent Wang]

The Austin-American Statesman:

Recently, at two different Austin high-end restaurants, I noticed that the prices for all items on the menus were rendered as 28 or 18, etc., without dollar signs.

Is this a recent conceit? I find it off-putting and pretentious, as if price really doesn't matter to us billionaires. I thought about offering to pay in euros, or pounds sterling or simply pulling a wad of numbers out of my wallet. Am I just out of the loop? Do I need to get a life?

[tommy]

personally i get confused when i see something like "28" on a menu. especially if it doesn't have something like ".95" after it. i mean, how am i supposed to know what that means? if the menu states "lamb chops: 28", is the "28" a bin number? am i supposed to order by bin number? what country am i in? or maybe i should order by number, like i do with a "turkey club sandwich" (#1 at most New Jersey diners).

it's an affection that i could do without. it's just another sign of people trying to be "fancy pants" and showing that they are smart and stuff. i don't get it. and i hate hate hate it.

just this month i tried putting together a list of everything everything that i hate hate hate, and i'm still not done, although it's the 26th! (May 26, 2006, for those who are easily put-off or confused). how can i find the time! with so much confusion and hate in my heart, how can i find the time to get it all out?!?!? GOD, i HATE the internet. so much to say, say easy to say it, so little time. thank god for blogs and sites like egullet where i can just put it all out there.

(i'm a poor excuse for Dale, i know).

Edited May 26, 2006 by tommy (log)

[Gifted Gourmet]

This is "the new black" ... yes, pretentious as hell, but so "clean and neat" graphically ... an "economy" of verbiage ...

Went back to read the item from the Austin-American Statesman and found that this totally agrees with me:

The no-dollar-sign phenomenon has been spreading. Either it's supposed to be a very chichi graphic element, or else it's a psychological ploy intended to reduce the emphasis on price.  Either way, it doesn't work for me. The prices still add up, whether or not there's a dollar sign there.

[srhcb]

To get a really good deal, pay in Venezualian Bolivars at about 2,150/$!

SB

[srhcb]

... an "economy" of verbiage ...

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[SuzySushi]

... an "economy" of verbiage ...

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sb

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2che

[TPO]

Is this a recent conceit? I find it off-putting and pretentious, as if price really doesn't matter to us billionaires. I thought about offering to pay in euros, or pounds sterling or simply pulling a wad of numbers out of my wallet. Am I just out of the loop? Do I need to get a life?

By this logic, if there is a dollar sign then poor Tom still must be confused as to whether it is American or Canadian dollars. Perhaps restaurants should add "US" to the dollar amount so there is no chance for confusion.

Graphically speaking, I think some menus done without dollar signs are attractive. What really bugs me is the tradition of ending everything in ".95." It's like I'm going to be fooled into thinking that the $24.95 item is really $24.00 not almost $25.00. How clever.

[joiei]

I never realized this was such a controversial thing. A restaurant I worked at in the early 90's in Pensacola, Fl did this on all their menus. I never thought about it twice. All dollar amounts were rounded, no off dollar prices.

[srhcb]

What really bugs me is the tradition of ending everything in ".95." It's like I'm going to be fooled into thinking that the $24.95 item is really $24.00 not almost $25.00. How clever.

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Ask any retailer. Believe it or not, it works!

SB (you can fool enough of the people enough of the time ....

[tommy]

What really bugs me is the tradition of ending everything in ".95." It's like I'm going to be fooled into thinking that the $24.95 item is really $24.00 not almost $25.00. How clever.

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Ask any retailer. Believe it or not, it works!

SB (you can fool enough of the people enough of the time ....

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something tells me that most diners don't give it a second thought. i don't know anyone who orders a dish based on a single dollar differential.

besides, this is hardly a food-related phenomenon, and therefore this probably isn't really a discussion relating to food.

[rooftop1000]

To bring the .95 back to food...what really drives me nuts is when they cant decide between .95 and .99 and scatter both number through a menu or deli sign board...on the sign boards, did they run out of 9s and have to switch to .95 or are they just not paying attention and maybe pricing by committee?

tracey

[tommy]

To bring the .95 back to food...what really drives me nuts is when they cant decide between .95 and .99 and scatter both number through a menu or deli sign board...on the sign boards, did they run out of 9s and have to switch to .95 or are they just not paying attention and maybe pricing by committee?

tracey

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another example of how retailers really aren't all that bright.

[phaelon56]

besides, this is hardly a food-related phenomenon, and therefore this probably isn't really a discussion relating to food.

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I see it far more on restaurant menus than any where else including online stores, bricks and mortar stores and print advertising.

It's probably different now but in NYC perhaps ten years ago when I was first wandering around the Village and points further south doing window shopping of menus I notiuced the phenomenon. I could always tell when I'd crossed the line into a particualr neighborhood, e.g. SoHo, when most of the menus suddenly no longer had a $ sign (and the prices also jumped 20% to 35% for what appeared ot eb the same ingredients).

[srhcb]

something tells me that most diners don't give it a second thought.  i don't know anyone who orders a dish based on a single dollar differential.

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Most don't even give it a first thought, and that's why it works.

Retailers aren't stupid. Small town grocers and restaurant owners, and other businesses, figured this out long before psychologists studied it.

You don't think gas stations would like have that extra tenth of a cent/gallon on all the fuel they ever sold?

SB

[tommy]

something tells me that most diners don't give it a second thought.  i don't know anyone who orders a dish based on a single dollar differential.

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Most don't even give it a first thought, and that's why it works.

Retailers aren't stupid. Small town grocers and restaurant owners, and other businesses, figured this out long before psychologists studied it.

You don't think gas stations would like have that extra tenth of a cent/gallon on all the fuel they ever sold?

SB

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i really don't think retailers are very smart in general. if this clever 1-penny-less than the dollar is the only proof you offer that retails are a smart lot, well i just don't know if that's going to be enough to convince anyone.

regarding the gasoline prices, i'm not sure how/why this started, but since gas stations have the same prices in the same neighborhoods, people generally aren't shopping around because gas station x has gas for 1.59 9/10 a gallon, and the other has it for 1.59 a gallon. and, they're filling up (probably with the same grade as always), regardless of price. i'm also not sure thy it's not changed, but i can bet it has nothing to do with tricking people into thinking their prices are lower than their competition's across the street, considering, as i say, they're all priced the same. and if there is a difference, it's not in 10ths of cents. it's in whole cents.

you're right, people don't give it a first thought.

as far as menus goes, it looks neater and cleaner to drop the pennies. perhaps restaurant retailers aren't necessarily smart or shrewd, but rather artistic and aware of what looks good, as opposed to what looks stupid.

in order for these restaurant retailers to be considered "smart" for employing this idea, you'd first have to prove that the penny-less-than-the-dollar marketing tactic actually works to get people to spend another 99 cents. i stand by my position that no one i knows choses a 24.95 tuna dish because they don't realize that it's actually 25 dollars. not one. we're not talking about wine lists, where people oftentimes make a choice from the "right hand column" (prices). there are many other tactics that restaurant owners use to get extra dollars out of customers (getting customers to come back to their place not being the least of them). they're much more complex, and i would think much more effective.

so, if it doesn't work, they're not smart, but rather they're just wasting ink and don't have an eye for menu design. this is a design made with menu design and look-and-feel in mind, rather than one made with profits in mind.

edited to fix spelling that is even worse first thing in the morning than it usually is. artocious.

Edited May 27, 2006 by tommy (log)

[srhcb]

i really don't think retailers are very smart in general.  if this clever 1-penny-less than the dollar is the only proof you offer that retails are a smart lot, well i just don't know if that's going to be enough to convince anyone.

"In general", it's easy to identify the "smart retailers". They make money and stay in business, the others lose money and go out of business. There are millions of reasons why.

regarding the gasoline prices, i'm not sure how/why this started, but since gas stations have the same prices in the same neighborhoods, people generally aren't shopping around because gas station x has gas for 1.59 9/10 a gallon, and the other has it for 1.59 a gallon.  and, they're filling up (probably with the same grade as always), regardless of price.    i'm also not sure thy it's not changed, but i can bet it has nothing to do with tricking people into thinking their prices are lower than their competition's across the street, considering, as i say, they're all priced the same.  and if there is a difference, it's not in 10ths of cents.  it's in whole cents.

They're not trying to "trick" people. They're just doing what traditionally works.

you're right, people don't give it a first thought.

This IS the crux of the matter. Type "psychology of pricing" into Google and start reading. Consumers are an odd bunch.

as far as menus goes, it looks neater and cleaner to drop the pennies.  perhaps restaurant retailers aren't necessarily smart or shrewd, but rather artistic and aware of what looks good, as opposed to what looks stupid.

I agree 100%.

in order for these restaurant retailers to be considered "smart" for employing this idea, you'd first have to prove that the penny-less-than-the-dollar marketing tactic actually works to get people to spend another 99 cents.  i stand by my position that no one i knows choses a 24.95 tuna dish because they don't realize that it's actually 25 dollars.  not one.  we're not talking about wine lists, where people oftentimes make a choice from the "right hand column" (prices).  there are many other tactics that restaurant owners use to get extra dollars out of customers (getting customers to come back to their place not being the least of them).  they're much more complex, and i would think much more effective.

Once again, I agree 100%. In fact, I think because of the unique nature of the business, restaurants might even be the exception to the rule in this case. You'll have to convince them though. (I've tried)

so, if it doesn't work, they're not smart, but rather they're just wasting ink and don't have an eye for menu design.  this is a design made with menu design and look-and-feel in mind, rather than one made with profits in mind.

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Once again, I agree, but harken back to; is the restaurant making money and staying in business? If so, it's making a profit, (or at least breaking even and hoping to make a profit some day), so the practice must result in enough revenue to at least offset the potential savings on ink?

People are funny. Retailers just aim to please. It's hit and miss.

SB (many years in the retail and restaurant buisnesses)

[Big Country]

When I write my menu up daily, I try to make it so that the menu is as clean as possible. I look to see how the descriptions look on the menu and how long it is. I can not stand the .99 or .95 or .25. I think that is make a menu to busy. I do not put $$$ in front of my prices but I do put .00 after. I think that most customers realize that they are expected to pay in $$$'s.

[tommy]

regarding the gasoline prices, i'm not sure how/why this started, but since gas stations have the same prices in the same neighborhoods, people generally aren't shopping around because gas station x has gas for 1.59 9/10 a gallon, and the other has it for 1.59 a gallon.  and, they're filling up (probably with the same grade as always), regardless of price.    i'm also not sure thy it's not changed, but i can bet it has nothing to do with tricking people into thinking their prices are lower than their competition's across the street, considering, as i say, they're all priced the same.  and if there is a difference, it's not in 10ths of cents.  it's in whole cents.

They're not trying to "trick" people. They're just doing what traditionally works.

a poster above suggested that the practice of pricing in round dollars is something of a trick. you agreed. the thrust of my argument is that this is not a very reasonable conclusion.

regardless, it sounds like we agree on most points here anyway.

[tommy]

When I write my menu up daily, I try to make it so that the menu is as clean as possible.  I look to see how the descriptions look on the menu and how long it is.  I can not stand the .99 or .95 or .25.      I think that is make a menu to busy.  I do not put $$$ in front of my prices but I do put .00 after.  I think that most customers realize that they are expected to pay in $$$'s. 

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i recall one comment on egullet from about 100 years ago where a poster (maybe me?) noted that the price of a ribeye at this particular restaurant was 39.50, whereas the strip steak was 39.25. he wondered why the 25 cent differential.

(prices and cuts may not be accurate. only for illustrative purposes)

[ghostrider]

What really bugs me is the tradition of ending everything in ".95." It's like I'm going to be fooled into thinking that the $24.95 item is really $24.00 not almost $25.00. How clever.

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Ask any retailer. Believe it or not, it works!

SB (you can fool enough of the people enough of the time ....

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How exactly does it "work" any more when just about everybody does it? I dimly remember those wild & innocent years in the 1950s when this was just becoming a trend, and it may have given an edge to restaurateurs & retailers who jumped on the bandwagon then, but these days..... Does anyone really not go to Bistro A where the steak frites is $24.00 and walk on to Bistro B where it's $23.95?

I'm more likely to try to figure out whether Bistro B is just pretentious and I'll get a good down home meal at Bistro C, where the price point is $23.99, or whether Bistro B is truly a gastronomic haven and the $23.99 folks are just sloppy and crude. I suppose it depends on the neighborhood.

Personally, I like the pricing at my local Chinese takeout parlor, where you buy 8 steamed dumplings for $4.15 (you do the math!), or a Pepper Steak for $4.65. IMHO they are way ahead of the curve. (They don't use $ signs, BTW, but with 225 items, you can argue that there is a significant ink savings.)

[srhcb]

How exactly does it "work" any more when just about everybody does it? 

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Perhaps everybody does it because it works?

I studied psychology, and I've been in the restaurant and other retail operations off and on for over 30 years, and it doesn't make much sense to me either.

In fact, it could be argued that since almost nobody can computethe Sales Tax in their head, it makes even less sense than ever. Still, I doubt if many businesses, large or small, are likely to abandon the practice soon.

Coincidently, Reuters had a story yesterday on gasoline pricing in tenths of a cent:

A tenth of a penny may not sound like much, but that just goes to show what an insidious scheme this is. You know what they say: A tenth of a penny here, a tenth of a penny there . . . If you buy 1,000 gallons of gasoline, exactly one gallon at a time, Big Oil will have ripped you off to the tune of a whole dollar!

SB (who, btw, currently rounds off to 50 cents in his store)

[SuzySushi]

Actually, to-the-penny retail pricing is not just for consumer psychology (where it is proven to work), but as a remnant of the cash-only days, to keep employees honest! They had to ring up the sale on the cash register in order to get the proper change, or else the customer would complain. They couldn't just pocket round dollar amounts.

[Fat Guy]

How about restaurants that eschew the dollar sign but include the decimal but without any zeroes? Like the Slanted Door:

http://slanteddoor.com/dinner.html

They list prices like:

pan-seared day boat scallops with organic spinach and spicy pineapple-coconut sauce 23.5

[srhcb]

How about restaurants that eschew the dollar sign but include the decimal but without any zeroes? Like the Slanted Door:

http://slanteddoor.com/dinner.html

They list prices like:

pan-seared day boat scallops  with organic spinach and spicy pineapple-coconut sauce  23.5

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Now THAT is just plain silly!

SB

[TheFoodTutor]

Of course, the flipside of this comes about when I encounter customers who cannot figure out that the numerals on the menu are the prices. Personally, I much prefer the cleaner look of pricing without dollar signs, and whether pricing at $14.95 is meant to trick me or not, I find it somewhat insulting. If it's 15, tell me it's 15, and yes, I can figure that I'd have to pay in U.S. currency, since we're not very close to a border with another nation here in Atlanta.

As simple as all of this seems, I still have exchanges like this one:

"Is this your menu?" (pointing directly at the menu)

"Yes," is my bewildered reply, as I try to think of anything else that the object in front of the person could possibly be, since it is very obviously a menu, with descriptions of food and prices clearly printed on it.

"Well, could I get something with the prices on it?"

If I didn't have the job that I have, I never, in a million years, would have guessed that there are people who wouldn't understand that the numbers on a menu correspond with the prices, whereas the words tend to describe the food items. It's like some sort of IQ test of the lowest order, and yet I run across people who fail it on a regular basis. "Where da' prices be at?" is an actual question that I've had to answer. On more than one occasion.

It's more a source of amusement for me, rather than any attempt at pretension or smokescreen to mask higher prices. Actually, most of the independent restaurants I frequent that use simple numbers without decimals have comparable or lower prices than many of the large chains that price entrees at $12.95, $15.99, etc.

I really don't see how this is an issue in any way.