The Chinese Philosophy of Food

[Tepee]

As for yin/yang (or is it yang/yin?)  ---- isn't it just balance?  A spaghetti dinner is balanced by a salad. Even the steak and fries eaters have a yin beer to balance all that yang.

If we seem naturally to lean toward balance, why do Westerners reach for iced tea on a hot day?

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There you go...that's listening to your body crying out for balance. BTW, beer is aka Gwai Lo Leung Cha (er...politely translated as caucasian's herbal tea).

[Ben Hong]

Ben -- to me you are Xiao Ben!

Oh thanks, Jo-Mel. It's been such a long time since someone's called me that.

[Gastro888]

...Chinese men are basically Mama's boys...who are cared for and catered to by their mothers, until such time as they marry and their wives take over.  (Hhmm, leads to another topic which may or may not reappear)...

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Yeah and you wonder why my generation of Chinese girls are delaying marriage. Sheesh!

As for the yin/yang theories, imho, I believe they are true and correct. I've often noticed that when I'm eating a straight diet of non-Chinese/Asian food, my body gets a little wacky. It could be just me and my beliefs affected my body, but do you want to take a chance? I feel there is a rhyme and reason for these old wives tales if only to continue our glorious tradition.

[I_call_the_duck]

For certain, the average Chinese family dinner is subconciously, but rigidly guided by the old Taoist principles, in food selection and the variety of cooking methods.

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Amen!

Well, mizducky-who-appreciates-quackiness-in-all-forms, I shouldn't put the blame on the older generations, for naggingly controlling the what's and why's we eat, because I, myself, have unwittingly taken over the task of feeding my family with such 'balanced' meals, explaining to my children the effects of some foods over and over again. I bet they roll their eyes when I do that, but I (and, they, in future) can't help it, we're chinese!

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This is a great thread. Boy, I'm learning so much more about my own culture than I ever did growing up. This explains so much, because, Tepee, I was one of those “eye rollers”. Mom would never tell the reason behind some horrible concoctions she made me drink on occasion.

Case in point:

Keeping this Yin and Yang on how it relates to food:

When we feel that we are "over heated" (Yang) - meaning we have a sore throat from eating too much fried food or too much dog meat in hot clay pots , we need to cool it down by introducing some Yin - e.g. drink some herbal tea.

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Mom would warn me not to eat too much fried foods, saying it is “yeet hay”, and would cause canker sores. If I did indeed get a canker sore, or feel “hot”, she’d make me some type of herbal drink. I don’t know if it really worked, but now I see her reasons behind it.

[Ben Hong]

Karen and Joyce: Heed well the advice and knowledge that you are gleaning here and from your female elders(especially). The continuity of the "old ways' depends on your generation, especially here in North America. Such Chinese wisdom as conserved and practised by 150 generations of Chinese (women) comes with some validity and merit.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Ben Hong (log)

[Gastro888]

I like the book Good Luck Life because it gave me some more insight into our traditions, however, I felt it was more of a primer than a good reference book for those of us who grew up ABC/CBC/etcBC. I wish someone (ahem, Ben Sook!) would publish a book with stories, potions, myths and traditions for us to reference.

I do have a Chinese Herbal Medicine cook book that I got at one of the two (forgot which one) paper stores on Mott Street. For those of you who are familar with the NYC CT area, it's the two stores next to each other, across from Big Wong that sells Chinese paper products like lysee.

edit: It's a Nonya (Cantonese) cookbook. It has alot of the tongs I'm familar with plus some that I know are native to Malaysia. It's in English with Chinese characters next to the ingredient list in the back. I'll try and get the name for y'all.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Gastro888 (log)

[I_call_the_duck]

It is amazing that once one gets older, they change from being the "eye-roller" to learning to appreciate and understand their culture.

Gastro88, gotta look for those books now.

[Dejah]

Karen and Joyce: Heed well the advice and knowledge that you are gleaning here and from your female elders(especially). The continuity of the "old ways' depends on your generation, especially here in North America. Such Chinese wisdom as conserved and practised by 150 generations of Chinese (women) comes with some validity and merit.

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And it doesn't matter that I myself am a granny, MY Mom has been bouncing my "yin and yang" around for the last week. One more week of Po-Po sitting and I should be young and healthy like Gastro, tepee, I_Call_the_Duck..........................

Just pulled out a book from my shelves: The Chinese System of Using Foods to Stay Young by Henry C. Lu., Sterling Publishing Co., Inc. New York ISBN 0-0869-9460-6, 1996.

It's never been opened because I have a "living book" close to home.

It discusses Chinese food remedies, deficiency and excess diseases, energy Tonic foods, blood tonic foods, Yin Tonic foods, Yang tonic foods. There are chapters on foods for eleminating toxic heat, damp heat, sputum. The final sections deal with getting to know your system and how to correct your weaknesses.

[Gastro888]

Curious, for those of us who have spouses who are not Chinese, what do you do in your household when it comes to "following the rules"? Does it cause debates, discussions in the household? Do they think you're off your rocker? Just curious.

I fully plan to "bow tong" regardless of ethnicity. Then again, refer to my previous comment on marriage. hee hee.

[I_call_the_duck]

Curious, for those of us who have spouses who are not Chinese, what do you do in your household when it comes to "following the rules"?  Does it cause debates, discussions in the household?  Do they think you're off your rocker?  Just curious. 

I fully plan to "bow tong" regardless of ethnicity.  Then again, refer to my previous comment on marriage.  hee hee.

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I may be too much of an ABC sometimes, but what "rules" are you talking about? Either way, my husband sometimes thinks I'm off my rocker.

[hzrt8w]

[...]The Chinese family dinner, with all the sung in the middle of the table and each diner with a bowl of rice, has evolved  over the years with the Y/Y principles in mind . There is usually a soup , a stirfried dish, a moist cooked dish and a steamed dish, at a minimum depending on the number of diners.

(Did you know that there are over 35 terms in the Chinese lexicon to describe various methods of cooking with heat?)[...]

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There is a very practical reason for this. Typically there is only one wok in each family's kitchen. If you stir-fry everything, inevitably the first dish would get cold when the second dish comes out. Chinese don't like to eat things cold. The cook of the house has to time well. A soup, a braised dish, a steamed dish and a stir-fried dish can all be served at the same moment.

Do you happen to know those 35 terms to describe cooking?

[jo-mel]

Do you happen to know those 35 terms to describe cooking?

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I'm curious, too. One of my books has 30 cooking terms. I'll list those when I have a chance.

[Dejah]

Curious, for those of us who have spouses who are not Chinese, what do you do in your household when it comes to "following the rules"?  Does it cause debates, discussions in the household?  Do they think you're off your rocker?  Just curious. 

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If I am being questioned, I just say, " Po-Po said so."

I don't really think about what my body needs, I just feel it when I need to make a specific tong. Must be all the years of "indoctrination" through the generations. Po-Po is 97.5 and healthy as could be, so the "old ways" must work!

[Ben Hong]

I agree with Dejah on the "indoctrination through the ages " theory, I would call it osmosis. All the women in my immediate family, ie: grandmothers, aunts, mother, etc. lived well into their late 80s. My "yee-ma", my mother's eldest sister was 99 when she passed away a few years ago. My mother was 86 when she died, 3 others are still very much alive and thriving, 83, 84, 86 . My maternal grandmother was 101 and her sisters lived well into their 80s through revolution, famines, tortures, disease and other tragedies that only women of that age can relate to. And although they never heavily proselytized the ying-yang thing, they subconsciously followed it.

Edited February 26, 2006 by Ben Hong (log)

[jo-mel]

~~~~~My maternal grandmother was 101 and her sisters lived well into their 80s through revolution, famines, tortures, disease and other tragedies that only women of that age can relate to. ~~~~~

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Ben -- In my trips to China --- of all the things I've see both on and off the tourist track -- of all the food I've experienced, the scenery and attractions and all that--- only one thing made me stop and contemplate, really contemplate, ----was seeing an elderly woman. All I could think of was what that woman must have experienced. What she must have seen as she lived through those years. I'd feel it for the men, too --- but not like the woman. I would be in absolute awe. I experienced it in Russia, too, but not with the depth of feeling that I had for Chinese women. So much happened, so quickly (relatively) in their lives. What stories they could tell.

And back to food ----- I agree with the osmosis theory. All learned and passed along without reading it, without scientific studies, without nutritional counseling or fine print and warnings on packages!!

[Gastro888]

I may be too much of an ABC sometimes, but what "rules" are you talking about?  Either way, my husband sometimes thinks I'm off my rocker. 

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Well, I never stopped to think about the "rules" until I stumbled across this thread. I'm thinking along the lines of not having too many fried/spicy foods, drinking certain teas (ex: drink "gook fa cha" at dim sum), things like that.

[Carrot Top]

I've been reading all this with interest.

And as it was a New Moon yesterday (an auspicious time for beginnings? ) it seemed that now might be a good time to jump in and ask some questions.

Close your eyes, if you can - and pretend that you do not have a Chinese grandmother who told of the lore of yin and yang - the daily embroideries woven into a growing design that finally becomes a whole and finished cloth of knowledge.

Taste some foods in your mouth, in your mind. Pretend you are a child and it is a pleasant game you are playing with a friend on a lazy afternoon. . .

Would you be able to guess correctly which were yin or yang based solely upon their taste?

Why or why not?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. . .

[Dejah]

Taste some foods in your mouth, in your mind. Pretend you are a child and it is a pleasant game you are playing with a friend on a lazy afternoon. . .

Would you be able to guess correctly which were yin or yang based solely upon their taste?

Why or why not?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. . .

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In my mind, it's not so much in the taste as knowing the inherent qualities in a food.

However, some foods with a bitter taste, such as bitter melon, would be considered yin - (leung)cooling tonic. Nuts, especially roasted chestnuts,

pistachios,peanuts would be yang - (yeet hay - gawn) if you eat too many of these.

Sometimes, you need a combination of foods: such as ham jeu tow and tofu soup for lowering fever, dong gwa with the peel on and dried oysters for when you have yeet hay...

Whether there are other food groups where the taste would indicate yin/yang, I don't know.

[Pan]

It's interesting to me that you feel like the yin or yang quality of a foodstuff can be altered by treatment such as longer cooking. Malays and, I believe, most other people who believe in the humoral system feel that humoral qualities of hot and cold are inherent in foodstuffs, regardless of the temperature or raw or cooked state of the item.

[Ben Hong]

Yes, but what I can taste is only the result of a long process of association. Most fried, deep fried and roasted meats are attributed the yang effect by the cooking process. Boil or steam some of these foods and you might achieve theyin effect. A lot of the "green" tasting foods are yin (spinach, bok choy, gai choy), while some of the more earthy ones are neutral (potatoes, beets,although to some lobok is yang) As Dejah says, most nuts are yang and "dry" in humor (gawn). Lamb and mutton and to a large extent beef is on the yang side. Pork is neutral (conveniently, as that is the most preferred of all the meats. The differences between species of fish are too nuanceful for most people to discern.

Like I said earlier in another post, this whole concept is nebulous and inexact indeed. It's based on type of food, method of cooking, the association with other foods in the pot, and even the season, etc.....How one perceives the classification and the effects of the different foods and materials in the YY dyad, all depends on your family lore(and observation) and teaching, and the popular understanding of what is yin and what is yang. I doubt very much that even two well trained herbalists can agree 100% on what is Yin and what is Yang.

[Ben Hong]

It's interesting to me that you feel like the yin or yang quality of a foodstuff can be altered by treatment such as longer cooking. Malays and, I believe, most other people who believe in the humoral system feel that humoral qualities of hot and cold are inherent in foodstuffs, regardless of the temperature or raw or cooked state of the item.

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Malays?? There is good reason to believe that the Chinese are originators and greatest adherents to the theories of the humoral system. The YY and humoral characteristics of a food can be altered by the maturity of the food and/or cooking length, method and style. A good example is a very popular vegetable that we Chinese love, watercress.

When the plant is young, as sold in a supermarket, we would just pop it into a boiling pot of broth and have a quick refreshing soup (tang). But this quick soup made with very young plants is very, very YIN, so the cook knows enought to toss in a bit of yang in the form of a few slices of gingerroot, or pork liver to moderate the yin effect. But, give the Chinese cook a bunch of gnarly old watercress and he instinctively knows that "lo foh sai yeung choy tang" will be on the table...after 3-4 hours. (long cooked watercress soup). That soup will have a few pork bones, a dried oyster or two, maybe lotus nuts or gingko nuts. This soup and the main constituent (old watercress) is definitely NOT yin. In the belief of the Chinese, inherent or intrinsic qualities of any food can definitely be transformed.

Malays, huh????

[Pan]

Yeah, I know, just assume the Chinese invented everything.

The Malays are the people whose humoral system I know somewhat intimately, as there's no mainstream American humoral system nowadays, so I naturally use their principles and empirical understanding of the system as a basis for comparison. Go ahead, make an issue out of it.

It may be that unripe foods have a different humor than ripe foods, as far as my Malay neighbors were concerned. I don't recall. But cooking, no matter how long, didn't change the humor one iota, as far as they were concerned. Ice-cold vodka would still be hot, and piping hot squash would still be cold.

[Dejah]

I think both Pan and Ben are corrected in their, um, "assumptions".

The humour in unripe fruit would be different only because it would intensify as the fruit ripens. It would remain yin or yang no matter the age and cooking time (a thousand points for Pan.)

However, with watercress as an example, if it is too mature, it will take longer cooking time to make it edible. With maturity, watercress can become bitter or retain less flavour, but still yin. Upon increasing the cooking time to make it edible, the cook would add other ingredients: pork bones, dried oysters, gingko nuts, etc. to make it more palatable. In doing so, the yin effect would be MODERATED, unless the cook chooses all yin addtional ingredients! (Equal points for Ben. )

[Ben Hong]

So, a potato that is generally "neutral" when boiled retains its neutrality even after it is fried to a crisp and is called a potato chip??

[chefzadi]

It's interesting to me that you feel like the yin or yang quality of a foodstuff can be altered by treatment such as longer cooking. Malays and, I believe, most other people who believe in the humoral system feel that humoral qualities of hot and cold are inherent in foodstuffs, regardless of the temperature or raw or cooked state of the item.

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Malays?? There is good reason to believe that the Chinese are originators and greatest adherents to the theories of the humoral system. The YY and humoral characteristics of a food can be altered by the maturity of the food and/or cooking length, method and style. A good example is a very popular vegetable that we Chinese love, watercress.

When the plant is young, as sold in a supermarket, we would just pop it into a boiling pot of broth and have a quick refreshing soup (tang). But this quick soup made with very young plants is very, very YIN, so the cook knows enought to toss in a bit of yang in the form of a few slices of gingerroot, or pork liver to moderate the yin effect. But, give the Chinese cook a bunch of gnarly old watercress and he instinctively knows that "lo foh sai yeung choy tang" will be on the table...after 3-4 hours. (long cooked watercress soup). That soup will have a few pork bones, a dried oyster or two, maybe lotus nuts or gingko nuts. This soup and the main constituent (old watercress) is definitely NOT yin. In the belief of the Chinese, inherent or intrinsic qualities of any food can definitely be transformed.

Malays, huh????

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I'm curious about the reason to believe this.