Chef Grant Achatz: An Alinea Overnight Update

[chefg]

If you could buy any piece of equipment what would it be???

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A large mortle and pestle arrived this morning via fed ex.

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To what purpose(s)?

Chef, thank you for what has so far been a very illuminating session. How do you envision those restaurants in S.F., Shanghai and Chicago? It struck me in your responses that at least one of them would be a sort of repository for your dishes. Is that, in fact your vision or is it something else? Do you see Alinea as always being the flagship of any future restaurants like Jean-George is J-G-V's?

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With all of the hoopla with paco jets, thermomixers, and homogenizers I wanted to go backwards….to the very basic of tools and see what I have overlooked. Going forward is not always the answer I am finding out.

Do you think that would work? Do you think that concept is valid? Martin and I had a long discussion about it one day several months ago…I will be the first one to admit it is a shame to forget some of the great dishes that this team has produced…I think of the black truffle explosion, the shrimp/vanilla tempura, the pushed foie gras, beef A-1, Rootbeer of Beef, Cheese n’ cracker, spice water, lychee and oyster cream, the balloon of mozzarella …the list goes on and on…most restaurants would run some of those forever and be done. We haven’t even mentioned the service ware….there are pieces that we have retired…the tripod, when the hearts of palm went away so did the sectional plates….and soon with the new crop of service ware coming in others will disappear. It is the founding philosophy for this restaurant to create. So if Alinea is the incubator…of food and service ware…and we continue to create ….why not bring those greatest hits back in a different location? Doc…have you ever had the original pushed foie gras? Would you like to try it? What about the balloon of mozzarella? I think beyond the obvious business angle there are compelling reasons to bring a restaurant like this life. What are your thoughts, you guys are the patrons…I am just the chef.

What if everything at Alinea was new…always? And everything at restaurant X was a greatest hit? Is there a need/desire for that?

[mikeczyz]

why not bring those greatest hits back in a different location? Doc…have you ever had the original pushed foie gras? Would you like to try it? What about the balloon of mozzarella? I think beyond the obvious business angle there are compelling reasons to bring a restaurant like this life. What are your thoughts, you guys are the patrons…I am just the chef.

What if everything at Alinea was new…always? And everything at restaurant X was a greatest hit? Is there a need/desire for that?

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Howdy Chef,

You know, I'm pretty sure Adria has already done this. I read somewhere (maybe the website) that the El Bulli Hotel restaurant serves menus which highlight and showcase some of the past dishes from El Bulli.

I, for one, would love to try some of the past Trio dishes. How about the cured goose, foie dish with the brick of stuffing?

All the best,

CZ

edit: i just looked it up. they've got two michelin stars for a menu of oldies but goodies.

Edited January 14, 2006 by mikeczyz (log)

[Holly Moore]

I really like the idea of returning to some basics in terms of food prep. There was a recent episode of "House" where the doctors were stumped until they stopped testing their dying patient's blood with computers and looked at it through an old fashioned microscope. So it goes with your science. I expect there are textures and flavors that can only be achieved with a pestle and mortar and similar centuries-old implements. Maybe you're doing it already, but it might be interesting to go back to ancient/old ingredients and build on them too.

My initial reaction to your question on there being room for a greatest hits restaurant was - not interested. The driving force of the tour is the anticipation and discovery. The last time I was at Trio I made it a point not to read about the current menu because I wanted to experience the tour without preconceptions. I wanted to be surprised.

But then I read "truffle explosion," as one of the greatest hits dishes. It is still there in my mind's gullet. A greatest hits restaurant would not top my list for my next trip to Chicago, as does Alinea. But if I was there for a few days, yeah I'd go for another "truffle explosion," even if, as in all things in life, the first time is always the best.

[chefg]

Grant,

First of all, congratulations on all your success.  As somebody who grew up eating burgers, French Dips, and the like in Achatz Restaurant, I know how far you've come (a long way from Jungletown, to be sure).  (Aside to those who don't know Grant's past:  his family was/is in the greasy spoon business in Michigan, so Grant started out in a very different part of the industry.)

I stumbled into eGullet and have followed the development of Alinea with much interest.  Along the way, I've often wondered:  is there ANYTHING from the Achatz Restaurant days that you've carried with you to Alinea?  If so, what?

Again, congratulations, and I hope to get to Alinea in the future to experience your ®evolution first-hand.

-Don

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Don Light:

Wow... a blast from the past….what a small world egullet bridges….

Good question…certainly my days at my parent’s restaurant had a huge positive effect on my current position. It was there that I learned how to move…move fast… in the trenches so to speak. So if there is anything that I brought it was confidence and kitchen sensibilities. But whether I have directly imported anything from Achatz Restaurant….not yet…but a recent discussion with my fiancé reminded me of a great little bite of food that I used to snack on in the kitchen of the restaurant since I was probably 6. French Fries wrapped in pickle…it is a great bite….and somehow I need to bring that to Alinea.

Hope you are well.

[yellow truffle]

....I think beyond the obvious business angle there are compelling reasons to bring a restaurant like this life. What are your thoughts, you guys are the patrons…I am just the chef.

What if everything at Alinea was new…always? And everything at restaurant X was a greatest hit? Is there a need/desire for that?

Well if you are taking votes. Restaurant X could be a place where one can go and order à la Carte. I think you will reach a broader range of customers. Yeah, keep Alinea as the flagship.

chefg

What are your thoughts with spicy food. You mentioned upthread that you prepare curry for yourself. Is there a dish in the works that engages the spicy side of the palate at Alinea? Perhaps a deconstructed Tabasco sauce. Or a rainbow of international curry flavors. Vindaloo?

[chefg]

why not bring those greatest hits back in a different location? Doc…have you ever had the original pushed foie gras? Would you like to try it? What about the balloon of mozzarella? I think beyond the obvious business angle there are compelling reasons to bring a restaurant like this life. What are your thoughts, you guys are the patrons…I am just the chef.

What if everything at Alinea was new…always? And everything at restaurant X was a greatest hit? Is there a need/desire for that?

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Howdy Chef,

You know, I'm pretty sure Adria has already done this. I read somewhere (maybe the website) that the El Bulli Hotel restaurant serves menus which highlight and showcase some of the past dishes from El Bulli.

I, for one, would love to try some of the past Trio dishes. How about the cured goose, foie dish with the brick of stuffing?

All the best,

CZ

edit: i just looked it up. they've got two michelin stars for a menu of oldies but goodies.

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Sure CZ ...burst the bubble. ..

Yes, the goose would probably make the list...but is it a viable concept? Would people go to see the old…or would it be “old” if they never had a chance to see it when it was “new”….or would they go specifically to get it because when they first had it they liked it so much they were mad when it was gone?

Is the concept of restaurant X the same concept of some of the most successful and highly regarded restaurants in the world? Proven great dishes that are executed at the highest level everytime….people going there knowing what to expect, and excited about that? Does it fill a void that transient cuisine leaves?

[peteswanson]

It's nice to not only hear a great response, but what I consider an honest response. I too agree with you in terms of who "coined" a technique/dish first, and I feel it would be wonderful to truly have a group of chefs truly devoted to the advancement of the field. I for one, believe this is a chance for many chefs to combine our efforts, rather than simply try to "be the first". Having worked with Alex and knowing his work ethic, I can be assured that you and he are first and foremost about the ideals of cooking. And hats off to chefs of the "modern age" that can truly see the beauty in a mortar and pestel. I for one, would love to be part of this proposed comradarie. All the best chef.

Swanson

[peteswanson]

If you haven't noticed...i like to use quotations around a lot of stuff.....it makes me feel more sopisticated!

[chefg]

....I think beyond the obvious business angle there are compelling reasons to bring a restaurant like this life. What are your thoughts, you guys are the patrons…I am just the chef.

What if everything at Alinea was new…always? And everything at restaurant X was a greatest hit? Is there a need/desire for that?

Well if you are taking votes. Restaurant X could be a place where one can go and order à la Carte. I think you will reach a broader range of customers. Yeah, keep Alinea as the flagship.

chefg

What are your thoughts with spicy food. You mentioned upthread that you prepare curry for yourself. Is there a dish in the works that engages the spicy side of the palate at Alinea? Perhaps a deconstructed Tabasco sauce. Or a rainbow of international curry flavors. Vindaloo?

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What if restaurant X were a "tapas" or "sushi" concept that offered all of the best one bite courses that we have ever offered...plus some more substantial ones…almost like a sushi bar concept…you come in a order 4 black truffle explosions, a few shrimp tempura on vanilla beans, some cheese n’ crackers, so on and so forth…then you order a substantial main course and dessert?

Ask any member of the staff and they will tell you hands down I have a sensitive palate when it comes to spicy food. Most of the time I feel the sensation of heat mares the observance of flavor. It is a running joke at the restaurant…as John Peters the sous chef, as well a few members of the staff, that are routinely responsible for the staff meal preparation, openly love hot food. Sometimes when they are feeling especially nice they prepare a side pot of “chef’s” food. Translation = the staff meal is f*&%$#! Hot so we made a lighter version for chef so we don’t get yelled at.

But I have a vivid memory of an instance that happened in culinary school that to this day shapes how I cook for guests. One of the chef instructors commented on a dishes quality to a student in a negative manner. The reason they said openly was that this person hated cilantro. I felt this was very unfair…for a chef to judge the quality of a dish based on his/her personal likes/dislikes. From that day on I have used ingredients that I don’t particularly enjoy…..for the benefit of the guest.

The one thing that does bother me about really spicy food in the context of dining is how it reacts with alcohol. To pair wines with a very spicy food is difficult….obviously the heat is intensified by the alcohol to the point where flavor is lost. I guess for that particular course we could pair with a non-alcoholic beverage…but….

Edited January 14, 2006 by chefg (log)

[chefg]

Chef,

reading that you have aspirations of opening other restaurants in places such as Shanghai and San Francisco, how do you envision yourself being a part of these other restaurants? I know that you are known as being very hands on in the kitchen, taking part in almost everything from hazing the externs, to breaking down the kitchen, to cooking, to brainstorming. How do you envision yourself being a part of the other restaurants if you cannot be as involved in it as you are Alinea at this time? Would you be afraid that others could execute your visions as well as you could yourself?

Also, as recently reported, sadly, Trio is closing. Board moderator ronnie suburban suggested the idea of a 60 course dinner with the other chefs to celebrate the times. You think you'd be up for it?

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Ultimately does it need to be me? At one point in 2000 I was at the pass several nights a week at the French Laundry, which means chef Keller was not there. At that time when you asked the staff or even me if I felt the restaurant was any different… I would say the edge was off…but ask him or the guests, and they might tell a different story. Ducasse holds how many Michelin stars, and is he in ANY kitchen these days? Chef Keller is not in the Per Se kitchen often, yet how have they have managed to be one of the greatest restaurants in the country?

Yes my credo is to be in the kitchen…hands on. But that requires a great deal of time…so in the case of Alinea what is most important? Ideas or execution?

Does Ferran cook? Or does he come up with the brilliant ideas, do a fantastic job of directing like a CEO of a fortune 500 company, and let the staff execute his ideas? What is the most effective use of his time? Scaling sardines or coming up with the next “melon caviar”?

At this point I have two sous chefs that have worked with me for 5 and 3.5 years respectively. They know how I think and what the standard is. Is it out of the question to assume that they could run a kitchen with the same standards as I? Given my history and there tenure I have to say no.

It is very sad that Trio will close…but Henry doesn’t see it as such…because he is Henry of course. I doubt there will be a 60-course extravaganza…but I suspect there will be some type of offering where all the past chefs will get together to honor a man that has done a great deal for fine dining in this country.

[yellow truffle]

What is resturant X were a "tapas" or "sushi" concept that offered all of the best one bite courses that we have ever offered...plus some more substantial ones…almost like a sushi bar concept…you come in a order 4 black truffle explosions, a few shrimp tempura on vanilla beans, some cheese n’ crackers,  so on and so forth…then you order a substantial main course and dessert?

Yes! 4 black truffle explosions (savory) and 4 bacons (sweet). No really, I think it is a great idea. I have had so many friends that want to experience your dishes, but are a little hesitant because of the cost and time involved. Ordering small items, puts the diner back in control. I feel Alinea is a major commitment. Once you are there, it is the whole evening. But sometimes I would like something small, then maybe watch a play, and come back for a big finish. Restaurant x diners, can come and go as they please, sort of. I think restaurant x diners will primarily be guests that have had your cuisine before, but it could also be a platform to get people to go to the flagship.

But I have a vivid memory of an instance that happened in culinary school that to this day shapes how I cook for guests. One of the chef instructors commented on a dishes quality to a student in a negative manner. The reason they said openly was that this person hated cilantro. I felt this was very unfair…for a chef to judge the quality of a dish based on his/her personal likes/dislikes. From that day on I have used ingredients that I don’t particularly enjoy…..for the benefit of the guest.

Nice. And thank you for that.

The one thing that does bother me about really spicy food in the context of dining is how it reacts with alcohol. To pair wines with a very spicy food is difficult….obviously the heat is intensified by the alcohol to the point where flavor is lost. I guess for that particular course we could pair with a non-alcoholic beverage…but….

This is a challenge. Or should I say, this is the challenge. Is it possible to recover the taste buds once it has been engulfed with spicy ingredients?

[chefg]

What is resturant X were a "tapas" or "sushi" concept that offered all of the best one bite courses that we have ever offered...plus some more substantial ones…almost like a sushi bar concept…you come in a order 4 black truffle explosions, a few shrimp tempura on vanilla beans, some cheese n’ crackers,  so on and so forth…then you order a substantial main course and dessert?

Yes! 4 black truffle explosions (savory) and 4 bacons (sweet). No really, I think it is a great idea. I have had so many friends that want to experience your dishes, but are a little hesitant because of the cost and time involved. Ordering small items, puts the diner back in control. I feel Alinea is a major commitment. Once you are there, it is the whole evening. But sometimes I would like something small, then maybe watch a play, and come back for a big finish. Restaurant x diners, can come and go as they please, sort of. I think restaurant x diners will primarily be guests that have had your cuisine before, but it could also be a platform to get people to go to the flagship.

But I have a vivid memory of an instance that happened in culinary school that to this day shapes how I cook for guests. One of the chef instructors commented on a dishes quality to a student in a negative manner. The reason they said openly was that this person hated cilantro. I felt this was very unfair…for a chef to judge the quality of a dish based on his/her personal likes/dislikes. From that day on I have used ingredients that I don’t particularly enjoy…..for the benefit of the guest.

Nice. And thank you for that.

The one thing that does bother me about really spicy food in the context of dining is how it reacts with alcohol. To pair wines with a very spicy food is difficult….obviously the heat is intensified by the alcohol to the point where flavor is lost. I guess for that particular course we could pair with a non-alcoholic beverage…but….

This is a challenge. Or should I say, this is the challenge. Is it possible to recover the taste buds once it has been engulfed with spicy ingredients?

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Very difficult in my experience.

[ronnie_suburban]

. , , Board moderator ronnie suburban suggested the idea of a 60 course dinner with the other chefs to celebrate the times. You think you'd be up for it?

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I know I'd be up for it but I can't take credit for the idea. It was yellow truffle who suggested it

=R=

[yellow truffle]

Very difficult in my experience.

Fair enough. Thank you for your time chef. And thanx for making Alinea a Chicago restaurant. I cant wait to see what this new year, and a 2 week hiatus will bring to the restaurant... Now go and tuck in the kids.

[chefg]

Any plans on opening a restaurant in Las Vegas?

No, San Francisco, Shanghai, Chicago

if you hurry up, i'll meet you in shanghai later this year!

if you were to open in shanghai, do you anticipate that you'll have to change your approach/technique/ingredients to tailor to the preferences of eastern palates? or, do you expect that your food, as it is now, is "international" enough to be a success abroad? on the flip side of that question, perhaps it could also be a question of whether you feel foreign palates are receptive to outside cuisines/approaches?

u.e.

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Having never been to that part of the world I can’t really answer that question with confidence. But from what diners from Tokyo and Hong Kong have said, the cuisine of Alinea has several aesthetic and philosophical similarities of the food in these countries. Or at least similarities in social and gastronomic traditions. Certainly we embrace the sweet savory balance much like some the regions in China, and one can find several similarities to the experience that is offered in the Japanese Kaiseki meals. It seems like the presentations would be respected in this part of the world…at least from the innovative stance.

At the same time aren’t there several traditional French restaurants in that part of the world that are held in high regard? Do they alter their style to cater to the palates of the people…or is that what the people of the region are drawn to…something different than what they have at their immediate disposal?

[mikeczyz]

Sure CZ ...burst the bubble. ..

Yes, the goose would probably make the list...but is it a viable concept? Would people go to see the old…or would it be “old” if they never had a chance to see it when it was “new”….or would they go specifically to get it because when they first had it they liked it so much they were mad when it was gone?

Is the concept of restaurant X the same concept of some of the most successful and highly regarded restaurants in the world? Proven great dishes that are executed at the highest level everytime….people going there knowing what to expect, and excited about that? Does it fill a void that transient cuisine leaves?

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i didn't mean to burst any bubble. I thought it might help show the viability of the concept by disclosing it's successful incarnation in another part of the world.

and yes, I think it's a great idea. I asked Lindsey if she would go to a restaurant run by your people to eat some of your past cuisine. You know what her response was?

"Hell yeah! Cheese and crackers...mmm."

I like the idea of a tapas/sushi restaurant. Maybe you can do like a Nobu/Nobu Next Door sorta thing. To me, the idea of a scaled down, less formal setting for your past cusinine makes sense on so many levels.

What about the rumors that you and Chef Keller are talking about doing a restaurant together? How about the tapas idea where you could order Oysters and Pearls along with Black Truffle Explosions all under the same roof? I think the restaurant would do very well.

CZ

Edited January 14, 2006 by mikeczyz (log)

[chefg]

To me, the idea of a scaled down, less formal setting for your past cusinine makes sense on so many levels.

Why? Why wouldn't it be a restaurant where we offered tasting menus simular to what we do at Alinea ...but dishes of the past?

Why do people want to make this cuisine "more approachable" Isn't that one aspect of what makes it special ..... it's un-approachability? Why turn it into a sushi concept of ordering it "by the peice" or large verions of the same food in an ala carte setting? Would it be the same?

[docsconz]

I'll put in another plug for the "best of" restaurant. Not only are the two concepts not mutually exclusive, they are complementary. While I haven't been to Adria's Hotel restaurant, I would certainly go. It would certainly be much fun to be able to try legendary dishes. This would also allow diners some context and continuity when experiencing the new dishes. I like the idea. On the other hand, by retiring dishes forever, it gives greater urgency to get to the restaurant more frequently in order to have been able to experience certain dishes. Perhaps the best solution would be to occassionally rotate some "classics" back into the tour. I loved being able to experience the "black truffle explosion" during my last visit to Alinea. I would love to be able to experience the pushed foie and mozzarella ball as well as other dishes that I might not be able to get to because of my distance from Alinea.

[chefg]

  How about the tapas idea where you could order Oysters and Pearls along with Black Truffle Explosions all under the same roof?

It wasn’t that long ago where you would never see another famous movie star in the same picture with other….now it is common…sometimes as many as 5 uber-stars in the same picture…do they bring more worth to the film? Does it draw more to watch it? Does it improve the quality of the picture? I am not sure ….but imagine if three great chefs opened a restaurant together….they all brought their strengths….their best dishes…and put them under one roof…how amazing would that be?

[nick.kokonas]

To me, the idea of a scaled down, less formal setting for your past cusinine makes sense on so many levels.

Why? Why wouldn't it be a restaurant where we offered tasting menus simular to what we do at Alinea ...but dishes of the past?

Why do people want to make this cuisine "more approachable" Isn't that one aspect of what makes it special ..... it's un-approachability? Why turn it into a sushi concept of ordering it "by the peice" or large verions of the same food in an ala carte setting? Would it be the same?

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does ordering a great piece of toro nigiri (or 5!) make it less special because it is more approachable? I don't think so.

In a tasting menu it makes sense to have an integrated whole that is composed and balanced -- and certainly a tasting menu could be available. But why not have the tapas/sushi bar of black truffle explosions etc.? Hell, I am at Alinea most days and I don't get to eat them!

[mikeczyz]

  How about the tapas idea where you could order Oysters and Pearls along with Black Truffle Explosions all under the same roof?

but imagine if three great chefs opened a restaurant together….they all brought their strengths….their best dishes…and put them under one roof…how amazing would that be?

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that was my point exactly.

[docsconz]

[ ….but imagine if three great chefs opened a restaurant together….they all brought their strengths….their best dishes…and put them under one roof…how amazing would that be?

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The restaurant could be called "Trio" Oh well, maybe not. Add a fourth and call it "Quartet".

[chefg]

To me, the idea of a scaled down, less formal setting for your past cusinine makes sense on so many levels.

Why? Why wouldn't it be a restaurant where we offered tasting menus simular to what we do at Alinea ...but dishes of the past?

Why do people want to make this cuisine "more approachable" Isn't that one aspect of what makes it special ..... it's un-approachability? Why turn it into a sushi concept of ordering it "by the peice" or large verions of the same food in an ala carte setting? Would it be the same?

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does ordering a great piece of toro nigiri (or 5!) make it less special because it is more approachable? I don't think so.

In a tasting menu it makes sense to have an integrated whole that is composed and balanced -- and certainly a tasting menu could be available. But why not have the tapas/sushi bar of black truffle explosions etc.? Hell, I am at Alinea most days and I don't get to eat them!

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You of all people should know why it is more special to have a format that is controlled by the house. How special is the explosion when you can get a dozen of them at will? Ron—was the first or the second explosion better?

Everyone has to admit there is something unique/special to a tasting menu format that an ala carte or tapas/sushi style service cannot provide.

[chefg]

  How about the tapas idea where you could order Oysters and Pearls along with Black Truffle Explosions all under the same roof?

but imagine if three great chefs opened a restaurant together….they all brought their strengths….their best dishes…and put them under one roof…how amazing would that be?

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that was my point exactly.

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Two chefs...it could only work with two.

[chefg]

I'll put in another plug for the "best of" restaurant. Not only are the two concepts not mutually exclusive, they are complementary. While I haven't been to Adria's Hotel restaurant, I would certainly go. It would certainly be much fun to be able to try legendary dishes. This would also allow diners some context and continuity when experiencing the new dishes. I like the idea. On the other hand, by retiring dishes forever, it gives greater urgency to get to the restaurant more frequently in order to have been able to experience certain dishes. Perhaps the best solution would be to occassionally rotate some "classics" back into the tour. I loved being able to experience the "black truffle explosion" during my last visit to Alinea. I would love to be able to experience the pushed foie and mozzarella ball as well as other dishes that I might not be able to get to because of my distance from Alinea.

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Yes but the point would be that Alinea is the think tank, the new, the cutting edge….and even as restaurant X would absorb the dishes that have fallen away from Alinea, restaurant X would also be continually moving forward as it recycles the best dishes of the umbrella.

The fact is it could afford an opportunity to shore up the “perceived downfalls” of this style of cuisine…the fact that it always pushes forward…waiting for none would than be put to rest because in fact if you didn’t catch it the first time around there is another opportunity.

I think it is a rarity for people to come to the restaurant out of fear that they may lose the opportunity to sample a particular dish. It seems that most might appreciate the chance to eat dishes that they have missed.

Why don’t we ask our Spanish friends how the el Bulli Hotel is doing? Are people interested in the idea of retrospective cuisine?

That being said what if Alinea decided to cook classically for a short period of time? A couple of months ago a regular guest came in. Being that he had just eaten the tour a week prior we decided to cook one course very differently. For his “Honeycomb course” …instead of the Opah we roasted a whole lobe of Foie Gras…..it was beautiful….it was classical…and 17 cooks stood there in awe as Chef Peters portioned the lobe for four people….one saying…”why can’t you buy that anywhere…I would love to eat that”

Is it about cooking? Or about cooking style? Can one restaurant be spontaneous with its style?