Daag curry base

[Ducksredux]

I'm reading Panjabi's "The Great Curries of India" now and she talks about daag being a "fried onion, ginger, garlic, tomato and spice masala mixture"(p.20) which can be refrigerated for a couple of weeks. She says it is a shortcut for making curry - "heat a few spoonfuls of it with some oil, add the meat, chicken, fish or vegetables, and saute...

I'm curious if this is one of the shortcuts that many restaurants take. Seems like they couldn't possibly make so many different slow-cooked dishes in one day with three different meats.

[anzu]

I've no idea if this preparation of a curry base is commonly done in restaurants, but I can talk (more or less) about what some of the worse Indian restaurants in the UK allegedly do.

Years back,I skimmed through a book on (UK) Indian restaurant cooking. I think it was The Curry Secret by Kris Dhillon, though if more than one book has been written on the subject it could well have been a different book.

It was interesting in a horrifying sort of way. At the time I had recently moved to the UK from India, and had been mystified/disgusted by the food served in Indian restaurants in the town I was living - I really couldn't understand quite what they had been doing to make the food so bad (particularly because the restaurants included some places that actually smelt pretty good if you walked past them earlier in the day while onions and spices were being fried). This book went a long way in explaining how this really unpleasant food had been produced.

I certainly didn't read the book carefully, or at length, and it was about a decade ago, so some details may be wrong. But from what I do recall, the method for most 'slow-cooked meats' was more or less as follows:

Boil meat (or poultry, or whatever else) in water flavored with turmeric. When meat is done, discard water, shred meat and set aside for when dish is ordered.

Make a very large batch of generic 'curry sauce' by frying onions, ginger, garlic, tomatoes, and a few spices (no meat added at this point). When a specific dish is ordered, add more of certain ingredients to the sauce for that dish - e.g. sprinkle in large amounts of Kasoori methi (dried fenugreek), or add extra cream, etc. then add plain shredded meat, re-heat and serve.

This explained not just the bland tastelessness of most dishes served, but the strangeness of the many menu items:

for example many places had (or still have?) one whole section of the menu devoted to foods strongly flavored with dried fenugreek - though a popular enough spice in Indian it is not crumbled at random over virtually any dish in the manner offered by these restaurants.

Another menu section in one place that sticks particularly in my mind was a choice of 'South Indian' chicken, pork, lamb, or beef in a cream sauce with pineapple and flambeed brandy (no, I did not eat in that restaurant, I simply read its menu in the window, shuddered and moved on.)

Clearly, this type of flavoring is simply a ploy of using strong-tasting or distinctive ingredients to make one generic sauce taste different. It is also clearly different from the spice/onion base mentioned in C. Punjabi as in that case certain key ingredients are being prepared in bulk and then combined and cooked together with the meats.

(Of course, preparing a large batch of a few basic ingredients that are commmonly included is not necessarily a bad thing. Independently of cookbooks and simply for her own convenience my (Indian) mother-in-law has for years made a base by frying a large batch of onions, ginger, garlic, tomato, cumin, coriander and turmeric, which she then freezes in smaller portions and uses as a short-cut in her vegetable dishes. It works for her. Almost all her food is cooked in one particular regional style, and there is not usually a huge variation in the type of spicing she uses, so making up a large batch in advance makes sense for the way she cooks. )

[liv4fud]

I'm reading Panjabi's "The Great Curries of India" now and she talks about daag being a "fried onion, ginger, garlic, tomato and spice masala mixture"(p.20) which can be refrigerated for a couple of weeks.  She says it is a shortcut for making curry - "heat a few spoonfuls of it with some oil, add the meat, chicken, fish or vegetables, and saute...

true

I'm curious if this is one of the shortcuts that many restaurants take.  Seems like they couldn't possibly make so many different slow-cooked dishes in one day with three different meats.

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and true

the base remains the same. however, based on the specific meats, more ingredients and spices are added for the specific end-result you would want to attain.

the whole idea is to cook the onions till they are nice and caramalized (but not crisp or burnt). and then use that paste with tomato and slow cook till oil starts separating. this will bring a sort of sweetness (from onions) and tartness (from the acidity in tomatoes).

this along with the taste of garlic n ginger along with basic spices (cayenne, turmeric, and generic garam masala) will give you an exciting yet simple base for many recipes.

word of caution: the whole idea is to get rid of as much water as possible. thus (hint hint) using more oil.... becomes a necessity - for preserving without preservative purpose.

<edited to add:> anzu, how many times will we post within a minute of each other!

I actually had the pleasure (or was it pain ) of actually seeing it happen.

at the catering place that I stage, the head chef did make the paste and use it in his cookings. but unlike what others would do in his absence, the paste was used as another ingredient in the dish. the seasoning of meats and veggies was done alongwith the paste as a whole.

others (he was on a vacation for 3 weeks) used the paste as a be all end all thing. everything from chole to mutter-paneer to jalfrezi tasted the same.

so yes, I learnt first hand the difference between run of the mill Indian restaurants where not many people who enjoy Indian food go AND a real Indian restaurant where the chef would actually take his/her time in making the dish what it was worth.

</edit>

Edited January 4, 2006 by liv4fud (log)

[scott123]

I'm reading Panjabi's "The Great Curries of India" now and she talks about daag being a "fried onion, ginger, garlic, tomato and spice masala mixture"(p.20) which can be refrigerated for a couple of weeks.

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Yes, many restaurants do, indeed, utilize a gravy base for their curries, but no, they definitely don't refrigerate it for a couple of weeks. A couple of days perhaps, maybe 5 at the most, but not weeks. In theory the gravy base could be frozen, but with the quantity of base restaurants go through and the turnover involved, I don't think they take this route.

A soup such as this, regardless of the moisture content will be growing mold in two weeks.

word of caution: the whole idea is to get rid of as much water as possible.  thus (hint hint) using more oil.... becomes a necessity - for preserving without preservative purpose.

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As long as water is still present in this base, it will have a limited shelf life. There are a few mitigating factors such as salt content, chili content and the use of particular spices (such as cloves), but utilizing additional oil and evaporating as much as water as possible will do little to prolong the life of this gravy. As long as there is water in it, there will be a conducive environment for bacteria growth.

Boil meat (or poultry, or whatever else) in water flavored with turmeric.

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My experience with both American and UK Indian restaurant cuisine is that the utilization of the tandoor for cooking meat is ubiqitous. Roasted in the tandoor and then sauced/simmered.

[Ducksredux]

So all restaurants use a curry base and cook their meat in a tandoor? What differentiates the good restaurants from the bad, aside from some restaurants taking some extra time to add ingredients? Is that the only way to get slow-cooked food to the table in 15 minutes?

Should I be looking for more painstakingly prepared food at the buffet, since they can make larger quantities at once?

[liv4fud]

So all restaurants use a curry base and cook their meat in a tandoor?  What differentiates the good restaurants from the bad, aside from some restaurants taking some extra time to add ingredients?  Is that the only way to get slow-cooked food to the table in 15 minutes?

Should I be looking for more painstakingly prepared food at the buffet, since they can make larger quantities at once?

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relax, you don't need to go to a buffet. as I mentioned earlier, you do have to get some prep done. think of the sauce / curry as the stock that was prepared. yes some seasoning did go in it. and if you use it right, then you can make some of the best culinary creations.

due to the boom in Indian cooking, a lot of not very talented people got into the industry. they had the financial backing a chef would dream of but no culinary skills. they would get in chefs for some time and learn the *shortcuts* and then run with those. and hence their food would come out and taste like listening to a quote out of context.

unfortunately there are more of those than the real good ones. There are a bunch of good ones in Chicagoland area - but they are usually smaller places where a non-southeast-asian would not tend to venture. I recently found one during my trip to Milwaukee Dancing Ganesha which came highly recommended by one of our readers here.

and yes don't think that using a curry base and cooking meat in tandoor is a bad thing.

(I guess I should stop - this post of mine is taking on a rant-like proportion )

but in short - don't loose hope, there are good places coming up and the bad ones are slowly but surely going down (well some of them)

[scott123]

So all restaurants use a curry base and cook their meat in a tandoor?  What differentiates the good restaurants from the bad, aside from some restaurants taking some extra time to add ingredients?  Is that the only way to get slow-cooked food to the table in 15 minutes?

Should I be looking for more painstakingly prepared food at the buffet, since they can make larger quantities at once?

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Sorry, I think you might have misunderstood me. Indian restaurants use curry bases of their own making. There isn't a huge restaurant supplier where these restaurants go and buy base from. Each restaurant makes it's own base sauce, in bulk quantities and uses that for the vast majority of it's dishes. Every restaurant has it's own base sauce.

I love this style of cooking. With a well structured/well thought out core sauce and careful augmentation for each additional dish, this practice not only produces phenomenal food but it keeps labor costs to a minimum. Some may see it as cutting corners but I view it as innovation.

By using a base sauce you don't get an extreme level of uniqueness as if every dish were made from scratch, but for that kind of labor, you're talking about a different kind of restaurant at a very different price.

[Ader1]

Do any of you have a base sauce recipee? Thanks.

[waaza]

Do any of you have a base sauce recipee?  Thanks.

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Ader,

I suggest you buy the book, then you will see the other recipes and hopefully forget about the 'curry sauce' approach; at best, it may save time, at worst, its generic gunk, IMHO.

cheers

Waaza

[Ducksredux]

Do any of you have a base sauce recipee?  Thanks.

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Ader,

I suggest you buy the book, then you will see the other recipes and hopefully forget about the 'curry sauce' approach; at best, it may save time, at worst, its generic gunk, IMHO.

cheers

Waaza

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I've actually been having trouble with the book. Her directions are extremely vague. She often doesn't tell you why you are doing a step and what you should be looking for, only the amount of time you should cook it for. Most recent one that flopped for me was her chicken in black spices, where you roast a bunch of wet and dry ingredients for 15 minutes or so before blending and then frying them. My other cookbooks like dakshin, sahni, batra, and a couple others all tell you what to look for when doing something.

[waaza]

it must be quite difficult for some authors/cooks to pitch their level of instruction. Do they assume everyone is a competent / incompetent, or try to arrive at a median level? What is extremely useful for one maybe very tedious for another. That’s why I like simpler recipes with notes (think of it as mainstream and tributaries) as you well know Ducks'.

In fact, some of the best chefs wrote only scant notes just as an aide memoir, and I can change recipes to fall inline with my own thoughts about cooking science.

After saying all this, though, techniques learnt should be applicable to most cuisines.

cheers

Waaza

[Ducksredux]

it must be quite difficult for some authors/cooks to pitch their level of instruction. Do they assume everyone is a competent / incompetent, or try to arrive at a median level? What is extremely useful for one maybe very tedious for another. That’s why I like simpler recipes with notes (think of it as mainstream and tributaries) as you well know Ducks'.

In fact, some of the best chefs wrote only scant notes just as an aide memoir, and I can change recipes to fall inline with my own thoughts about cooking science.

After saying all this, though, techniques learnt should be applicable to most cuisines.

cheers

Waaza 

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yeah, but how often have you had to dry roast an onion with a bunch of other spices mixed in? It's weird, and weird stuff like that should have notes. Maybe I'll keep it for the photos, or maybe sell it.

To get back the main topic, we have a new tiffin place in Philadelphia which also has a restaurant. There are about 3 entrees per day for delivery, or the regular menu which has dozens. It's interesting how much more distinctive, fresh, and delicious the 3 delivery entrees are than the regular menu. I'm guessing because they make such large quantities of the three dishes a day they actually cook the meat/vegetables in the curry rather than adding them at the end.