State Dinner for Prince Charles & Camilla

[Busboy]

And one last thing: there is no such thing as Vermont Camembert.

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Not even this?

Their Vermont Camembert is the only farmstead cheese of this type made in New England. It requires a great deal of hands-on care and is considered one of the most difficult of cheeses to make. Free from added animal enzymes, be assured that the cows who live at Blythedale Farm have a good home. They are cared for with love and respect and live in a clean, comfortable stable with year-round outdoor access. Their stress-free lives create a milk with delicious flavor.

Stress-free cows ... a good thing ...

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To paraphrase a waiter I once worked with, who was asked for a bottle of "California Burgundy,"

Camembert, Madame, is from France.

(Not that Vermont cheeses aren't worthy of being served at a state dinner.)

(from Carrot Top)

One of the other factors that comes into planning is the fact that most guests of this type have been dining upon the finest foods in the world as a matter of course each day, all day, for as long as they have been in their positions.

I suspect you're dead wrong on this. Having scanned the guest list (I am from Washington), worked in politics and minioned to rich people, I'd guess that a good part of their diet is mediocre room service from swank hotels, sandwiches at their desks and steakhouse fare. OK, Nacy and Merv may live well, being Californians and in the entertainment business. But there were a lot of people there who eat at the White House Mess -- presitgious, but not delicious. My occasional glimpses of food at the top have been extremely disappointing.

[Ling]

I'm wondering what "wild rice pancakes" are like - are they crepes made with wild rice flour?  Am I completely lacking in cosmopolitan knowledge of wild rice pancakes?  Can someone describe them?  Thanks!

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I've seen recipes for wild rice pancakes; I believe they are made by cooking the wild rice, then adding it to the pancake batter. I guess the wild rice adds nuttiness and texture. Sounds good! I wonder if they can be topped, like blinis, with caviar, chives, and creme fraiche? Or smoked salmon....mmm...

[ludja]

I'm really intrigued by the soup, actually. It sounds like a potentially nice soup for Thanksgiving. I saw one write up where they described it as a celery root soup so I'm wondering if it was cream-based puree...

[Carrot Top]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone can express it.

And then they can hear whatever someone else has to say in their turn.

We do not need to agree and we do not always need to get along.

...........................................

I am sure that each person in their own profession has a word or two to say in return when someone not in that profession has critical viewpoint that lands within the venue of their profession.

Generally as a rule, I do not join internet forums for the discussion of architecture or of politics or of practice of the law or of anything else. I may read but I do not criticize the professionals in the field.

Food is common to us all so we all can talk about it.

But some people *do* do this professionally and their viewpoints may be different than someone that does not do this professionally. May be, may not be. My professional hackles rose at the mixing of global and domestic politics mixing with food and the reputation of a chef that was occuring.

I no longer work in this field but still have great loyalty to it and to its culture, ways, and people.

...............................................

I do have a temper once in a while and once in a while I indulge it.

What runs through my mind during these times is this saying:

"If you're gonna talk the talk, then you better be able to walk the walk."

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I am sorry that your particular glimpses of food at the top have been disappointing, Busboy. Maybe we're better at it in New York where the money is rather than Washington where the politics are. What I viewed during several visits to DC to work as consultant on large politically based food gatherings seemed to provide evidence to support this notion but that was a random sampling so I will not speak assuredly to say that it is a fact.

Edited November 4, 2005 by Carrot Top (log)

[Carrot Top]

I should add that my reasoning behind saying that there is protocol involved in the planning of these dinners is that the previous Executive Chef at the White House told me this fact himself during a visit to the kitchens where I spent the afternoon discussing the operations there.

It is my assumption that this has not changed.

Edited November 4, 2005 by Carrot Top (log)

[Busboy]

I haven't any doubt that many of the diners have eaten well in their time. I also have found (again, when I have bumped up against the political elite) that they tend to sacrifice meal time for work, and that they spend a great deal of time at crowded banquets eating bad food. Last night, for example, I ate with a couple of Deans, a few very rich people and a smattering of distinguished political and diplomatic veterans in a private dining room of an elite university. A very swell crowd (they let me in because the organizers were kind enough to feed the staff), but lousy food. I'll bet even Yo-yo (caught him at the NSO the other night) walks back from his rehearsal and calls room service, because his first priority is to play, and between rehearsals, logistics and other concerns he doesn't have much time for fabulous gourmet spread.

And, neither he or anyone else goes to a state dinner for the food. And, the menu is a poltical statement. JFK used state dinners to show his sophistication, Jimmy Carter Americanized them to show his folksiness, Reagan went all French to show he wasn't Carter, Clinton got all New American and now Bush does buffalo. Being invited to a State Dinner is totally cool, but don't expect the food to be astounding.

To the original point, I would have tried to work a Brit tribute into the menu. The Buffalo thing is cool, though I prefer beef. But, maybe, one of the many wonderful Brit cheeses for the cheese course, or maybe a Buffalo Wellington, just for fun. God knows, you can't serve Brit wine, but maybe a good port after dinner - or a porter before.

[Carrot Top]

That they are not there for the food is certain. But that the food that is served at the White House has to be perhaps better than other places that may serve the usual political banquet in DC may also be close to a certainty, I would think.

When I spoke of ascertaining tastes and fitting them in terms of defining menu, I meant the top guns (it sounded like there were a lot of top guns there, I do not read of style nor of politics on a daily basis so was uninformed as to the specific breakdown of VIP's vs. IP's). Generally when the top guns come to dinner the chef is provided with a list of likes/dislikes/allergies etc. To not do this would be to risk political or business amicability over perhaps a piece of toast or a certain vegetable and that is not to be desired.

Certainly there are many wonderful options for food that could make a great display in this instance. All I can say is again, that I think her menu was good - it pleases me. To hear other ideas (and most particularly from those people who may not think her menu good - it would give them a chance to show their own stuff) would of course be fun.

[Pontormo]

Feed em all pizza, then, or order Chinese.

[Carrot Top]

Yeah there you go. Real American home cookin'.

[Pontormo]

Oops, I forgot the beer !

Good ol American micro breweries.....but a few cases of Coors for some in that crowd.

[Carrot Top]

Don't forget the Coors Lite. You know how fat their butts are from sitting on them day and night.

[rosebud]

Well, I have to defend what Busboy is trying to say here. (And not because I ate the "Brined/No Brined Chicken" at his house.)

You need to know that the White House kitchen is not like the kitchen of your favorite "upscale" restaurant. It is really small and most of the food needs to be prepared well in advance. (Julia Child once commented on her dinner there and said that the food tasted a bit stale. I am paraphrasing here.) After all, they start preparing for CHRISTMAS in February. They need to prepare 40,000 (no, that's not a mistake) cookies, pastries and whatnot for the holiday season.

The State Dining Room seats 120 people, max. If there was 130 people at last night's dinner, then they must have squeezed another table in there. (The Clintons held the largest state dinner in history by putting a humongous tent on the South Lawn and served 700 people for a dinner.)

120 course have to be served at the same time.

The tastes of the President are paramount, no matter WHO the President may be at the time. It is well known around these parts that GWB really likes buffalo.

The middle-aged folks reading this may remember the contretemps when LBJ got rid of the French chef the Kennedys hired for someone who was more sympatico with his Texas barbeque way of food.

Trust me: if any of you are ever in the position to get an invitation to a State Dinner, the food is the LAST thing you will care about. Bear in mind, for the after dinner entertainment in the East Room, about 1,000 other worthies are invited to put on their finery and come for just that, and no food.

Those of us on this site can't imagine this, but it is true: the food just doesn't much matter, unless it sends the "great and the good" to the hospital.

[Pontormo]

Honey, food matters.

Otherwise, they'd serve broccoli when George Bush, Sr. is invited.

Food matters in the way that any and every thing matters at the White House.

Symbolism is big.

Symoblism is VERY big in Washington, D.C. and in the White House and their counterparts throughout the world.

That's why John Travolta was not invited this time around.

That's why there are photographs of the Duchess in her cashmere jacket and taffeta silk skirt next to Mrs. Bush in her red gown with columnist after columnist picking apart the nuances and reactions to the other 49 ensembles brought to the States for the royal visit. No, fashion is not the main event, but it matters.

That's why it was such a big deal when the search was on to hire the new Executive Chef at the White House. S/he had to say something about the Bush presidency distinct from the Clinton presidency and more importantly had to say something about the nation to the rest of the world when the rest of the world came to it.

That's why there was so much hoop dee doo when finally a woman was chosen for the honor of serving that role, promoted from within, no less, instead of the other finalist, a recognized chef from the Bush's beloved Texas. For Laura Bush, the choice of a female chef mattered.

And, yes, food does matter, it matters a lot which is why the menu was carefully chosen. It was meant to represent us well. Just like the British oak planted at a public school in the District of Columbia matters.

That's why the guests didn't eat pizza or sandwiches or takeout.

[Gifted Gourmet]

What would be on the menu?

Please be gentle, reader. No ranting.

I would love to see what the proposed menus would look like, which was the original intent of the thread, if I recall correctly ... I have offered a menu from the South .. anyone else have a menu?

[rosebud]

OK, maybe I didn't make myself clear. The food matters only to extent that it doesn't embarrass the President and First Lady. They do go over the menu and use as many American foodstuffs and wine as possible. But, nobody expects the kind of food you get at the best restaurants in town. It simply isn't possibly given the facilities.

It is being INVITED in the first place that matters.

And, let me add, NOBODY, I mean NOBODY, goes to a State Dinner expecting a tasting menu.

Edited November 4, 2005 by rosebud (log)

[Carrot Top]

OK, maybe I didn't make myself clear.  The food matters only to extent that it doesn't embarrass the President and First Lady. 

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I wonder what the President and the First Lady would say to this claim.

[Busboy]

Feed em all pizza, then, or order Chinese.

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Many years ago, FDR fed His Majesty George VI -- the first reigning British monarch ever to visit the U.S. -- on hot dogs, though not at a state dinner.

[Carrot Top]

At least she didn't serve risotto.

[maggie]

Vermont Camembert Cheese and Spiced Walnuts

Petit Fours

Chartreuse Ice Cream with Red and Green Grape Sauce

What is up with the dessert? Didn't they hire a new Pastry Chef as well? Are there photos of this? Was it served in courses? Ice cream and sauce? Just doesn't get my tastebuds going, y'know? I'm with Gifted Gourmet! Let 'em eat cake! Especially Red Velvet! With blueberries and cream cheese frosting (get it? the FLAG? theirs, too!). Only I would mix in Pecan Pie, with the pecans from Texas; something with pralines from New Orleans; something with apples from the northwest, like a crisp or a pie. They could have done much better, I think.

[Nicolai]

This sounds like a very basic menu.

Official state banquets are in fact a political statement and the offering should reflected this fact, more so if it is a royal official visit.

In such cases the Chef not only is asked to create a menu but it is also preferable to create a special "celebratory" dish which hopefully will be picked up and duplicated in some restaurants.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Official state banquets are in fact a political statement and the offering should reflected this fact, more so if it is a royal official visit.

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It was my understanding that this was not intended to be a very formal state function because Charles is not (yet) a Head of State, as the media noted ... because the British royal couple was planning their tour here in the States, the President and Mrs. Bush wanted to recognize that and play host to them.

Perhaps this is why it was not a "much heralded celebration". Just one possible explanation for the more modest dinner.

There were no press events surrounding this trip, nor actual formal discussions in which foreign heads meet the press at podiums with the President ...

The much more elaborate event was held in Washington at the British Embassy and was quite, shall we say, celebratory?

article and pictures here from Hello Magazine UK with Camilla resplendent in gold lame ...

After the day's engagements, the royal couple adjourned to the British Embassy for a gala reception hosted by the ambassador, Sir David Manning.  The Duchess was positively glowing in a calf-length, gold brocade dress with floaty hem and sheer sleeves, and the future king at her side sported a gold handkerchief to match in his top pocket.

no mention of the food ... alas ...

[Carrot Top]

This sounds like a very basic menu.

Official state banquets are in fact a political statement and the offering should reflected this fact, more so if it is a royal official visit.

In such cases the Chef not only is asked to create a menu but it is also preferable to create a special "celebratory" dish which hopefully will be picked up and duplicated in some restaurants.

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I have heard of this happening in the eighteenth and nineteenth century but am not aware as to when it has happened in the twenty-first century.

Can you give us some examples, please, for reference?

Of course I did know about the hot dogs and FDR. That's sort of what we do here in America. Hot dogs everywhere for everyone.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Many years ago, FDR fed His Majesty George VI -- the first reigning British monarch ever to visit the U.S. --  on hot dogs, though not at a state dinner.

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the Royal visit and menu for the "hot dog meal" by FDR

portion of his estate for an old-fashioned, American-style picnic. Much to the horror of FDR's mother Sara Roosevelt, the King and Queen of England were served hot dogs on the front porch of the cottage. Although the press made a great deal about the hotdogs (the picnic made the front page of the New York Times), the menu also included more delicate fare fit for a King and Queen:

MENU FOR PICNIC AT HYDE PARK

Sunday, June 11, 1939

Virginia Ham

Hot Dogs (if weather permits)

Smoked Turkey

Cranberry Jelly

Green Salad

Rolls

Strawberry Shortcake

Coffee, Beer, Soft Drinks

The royal couple delighted in their Hyde Park experience. In a letter to Queen Mary, her mother-in-law, Queen Elizabeth wrote: "They are such a charming and united family and living so like English people when they come to their country house." Their departure was emotional; a large crowd gathered at the small Hyde Park train station to wish the couple luck as they returned to an uncertain and perilous world on the verge of war.

and not always hot dogs for all Americans, Carrot Top ... LBJ was even more folksy ...

Throughout Johnson's years in the Senate and the vice presidency, barbecues had been a characteristic feature of entertainment at the ranch. The barbecues "fit LBJ's style," Cactus Pryor remarked, for they expressed the feel of Texas hospitality and entertainment as opposed to the formality of Washington, D.C., high culture. .. Johnson liked a western atmosphere for the barbecues, with round tables, checkered tablecloths, and coal-oil lanterns. Servers wore western attire, although security officials dressed in their normal business suits. Johnson and his staff strove for an authentic ambience, dictated as much by popular culture's Western films as by the realities of the experience of nineteenth-century Texas.

article here

[Busboy]

Official state banquets are in fact a political statement and the offering should reflected this fact, more so if it is a royal official visit.

←

It was my understanding that this was not intended to be a very formal state function because Charles is not (yet) a Head of State, as the media noted ... because the British royal couple was planning their tour here in the States, the President and Mrs. Bush wanted to recognize that and play host to them.

Perhaps this is why it was not a "much heralded celebration". Just one possible explanation for the more modest dinner.

There were no press events surrounding this trip, nor actual formal discussions in which foreign heads meet the press at podiums with the President ...

The much more elaborate event was held in Washington at the British Embassy and was quite, shall we say, celebratory?

article and pictures here from Hello Magazine UK with Camilla resplendent in gold lame ...

After the day's engagements, the royal couple adjourned to the British Embassy for a gala reception hosted by the ambassador, Sir David Manning.  The Duchess was positively glowing in a calf-length, gold brocade dress with floaty hem and sheer sleeves, and the future king at her side sported a gold handkerchief to match in his top pocket.

no mention of the food ... alas ...

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Back when I was a waiter, I did a couple of gigs at the Embassy. I hope that, in the years since, "Cool Britannia" has made its way into the embassy's kitchen. Otherwise, the less said about it, the better. Think Steamship Round roasts, boiled potatoes and the like. They always served an excelent claret with dinner, though.

The President is rumored to dislike both swank food and formal events, so the simplicity of the menu may reflect his, and the First Lady's (who runs these sort of things) tastes. Perhaps one reason they brought in the new chef was to, as Emerson said, "simplify."

The menu for the President's first State Dinner, (here, ) was a more elaborate affair, and included both the dramatic dessert and the influence of the host nation one often sees. It looks altogether more daring to me.

Not sure exactly what dishes might be served, but it would have been fun to see some Thomas Keller-esque (he of "oyster and pearls" and "coffee and donughts" that are not what they seem) wit to such Britisj classics as "bubble and squeak" or "toad in the hole."

[Gifted Gourmet]

The President is rumored to dislike both swank food and formal events, so the simplicity of the menu may reflect his, and the First Lady's (who runs these sort of things) tastes.  Perhaps one reason they brought in the new chef was to, as Emerson said, "simplify." 

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I believe at the time, Mrs. Bush had gotten a new press secretary and that the need for a new chef revolved around her desires for a more modern, possibly Texas-inspired type of cuisine ... that was when the chef resigned and noted that he felt that he could not "fit into this style" of entertaining ... possibly there was more at play here than any of the official stated reasons proffered ...

Washington Post article with explanation here