Pictorial: Hong Kong Chicken Pan-Fried Noodles

[jo-mel]

Got it!  I've used them. But they are fairly new --- if the last 10 years, more or less, are considered newish. In restaurants, the pan/fried (Two sides yellow) noodles were the regular cooked noodles used for lo mien and the like. Then, all of a sudden, these noodles were on the market and were called Hong Kong noodles.  Some were pretty good, and some were kinda uncooked tasting. In my classes Ive used both, and the people liked the ease in using the Hong Kong type.

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"Lo Mein"! Ah... Thanks for bringing up another confusing terminology besides the bean sauce!

The "Lo Mein" in Hong Kong is the boiled egg noodles with oyster sauce poured on top, served with a small bowl of wonton broth on the side.

The "Lo Mein" as Hong Kongers know it do not exist in the US Chinese restaurants, except in those who cater to Hong Kongers.

The "Lo Mein" offered in the American-Chinese restaurants refer to what's closest to "Soy Sauce Chow Mein" in Hong Kong.

The "Chow Mein" as Hong Kongers know it is called "Pan-Fried Noodles", or "Leung Mein Wong" (Two Sides Yellow) in the US Chinese restaurants.

The "Chow Mein" offered in some American-Chinese restaurants refer to what's... well, there is not quite an equivalent in Hong Kong or China. How do you describe a dish of "stir-fried meat with vegetables" with broken deep-fried thick wheat noodles laid on the top? We just don't have such a dish.

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OK -- so you have some cooked noodles and you have some sort of topping or a saucy flavored meat/veg mix or whatever.

You make the meat/veg mix and add the cooked noodles and MIX it. Voila Lo Mein?

Or---- you heat some oil and add the noodles, mixing them a little, but the idea is to get some of the noodles crispy and some are soft. You add the hot meat/veg mixture and mix it all up and -----?you have Chow Mein?

Or ---- you take the noodles and place them in a little oil, and let them cook on one side, then flip the entire thing to brown the other side. Place the pancake on a plate and add the hot meat/veg mix and you have Two Sides Yellow?

That is what I seem to have been following these many years.

That last one with the noodles placed on TOP of the meat/veg mix is something I've not seen.

Of course then there is the Chinese/American style of yore where a chop suey type of dish is placed on dry canned noodles and you have that comfort food of the 30's and 40s ------- and which my dear DH absolutely adores!! When I'm not around, and he gets take-out -------THAT is what he gets!!!! {{{{{{groan}}}}}}

[hzrt8w]

OK -- so you have some cooked noodles and you have some sort of topping or a saucy flavored meat/veg mix or whatever.

You make  the meat/veg mix and add the cooked noodles and MIX it. Voila Lo Mein?

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I am still trying to understand the true meaning of "lo mein". I can only come to the conclusion that the same name (lo mein) means different things in Hong Kong versus USA. (Much like the same name of "bean sauce" means different things in different part of China.)

In Hong Kong, both mixing meat/vegetable and noodles when stir-frying, or pan-frying noodles first, then pour on top a mixture of meat/vegetable and the sauce are called "chow mein". The only kind of "lo mein" is the one boiled and have oyster sauce poured on top.

The terms "two side yellow" or "jeen mein" (pan-fried noodles) are probably only used in the USA.

That last one with the noodles placed on TOP of the meat/veg mix is something I've not seen.

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Lucky you! When I started working as a waiter in San Diego in the early 80's, that's the "chow mein" served to many American patrons (most were in their golden years). So it does sound like it might be the only "chow mein" they know from the 30/40s... The noodles are deep-fried first to crispy, then broken down into 1-2 inch pieces, spreaded on top of a bed of chop-suey (meat/vegetable mix).

[Dejah]

The "chop suey" American style chow mein was always on our Soo's menu. This was shredded cabbage, onion, celery, mushrooms and whatever meat ordered...beef, chicken, pork, shrimp. The noodles were a favourite for everyone. We used to make our own once or twice a week. This was my son's specialty when he worked for me. He was taught this task as he had strong arms from working out!

The noodles were eggs, flour, and a pinch of salt...no real measurements. The dough was rolled out on a huge prep. table, cut into uniform strips about 1/4 wide. These were shakened loose then deep fried. The bits of flour on the noodles always killed a deepfryer full of fresh oil. The finished product was cooled, then stored in a big barrel. A bowl is always set out with the consomme soup, and these were used to top the "chow mein". The noodles were light in texture, not like the hard crunch of store bought ones.

It was hard to keep staff from constantly snacking on them!

I used to set out bowls of them at our Saturday jam sessions in the banquet room. It was required ( and became addictive) to take a noodle and dip in Dave's insanity (habanero) sauce before eating. Talk about "hot licks"!

My Mom used to make " keh mah" with these noodles and maltose. They were the best!

[Laksa]

They call it "Leung Mein Wong" in some NY/NJ restaurants too. So it's an American thing, huh? Interesting. I like the mental image the name conjures... one of frying the noodles on "both sides", like a pancake.

[AzianBrewer]

They call it "Leung Mein Wong" in some NY/NJ restaurants too.  So it's an American thing, huh?  Interesting.  I like the mental image the name conjures... one of frying the noodles on "both sides", like a pancake.

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Not really. Leung Mein Wong is originally a Shanghainese dish. It's perhaps intro to the public around the General Tso's Chicken era.

[Laksa]

Not really. Leung Mein Wong is originally a Shanghainese dish.  It's perhaps intro to the public around the General Tso's Chicken era.

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AzianBrewer, are you saying Leung Mein Wong is not the crispy Cantonese style noodle that's demonstrated here? Because that's what I got the last time I ordered it at Noodle Chu in Parsippany. (Actually, now I remember they call it 双面黄 shuang mian huang).

Or are you saying that Leung Mein Wong has origins in Shanghai?

Could you describe for us the Shanghainese Leung Mein Wong?

[AzianBrewer]

The Shanghainese Leung Mein Wong noodle are little thicker than the Cantonese Chow Mein. Somewhat between the size of Cantonese and Americanized Lo Mein Noodles. But most places used the Lo Mein noodle.

[hzrt8w]

The Shanghainese Leung Mein Wong noodle are little thicker than the Cantonese Chow Mein. 

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This is the first time I heard of "Shanghai Leung Mein Wong". Hong Kongers refer to them as "Shanghai noodles" (Shang Hai Mein). They are thicker than Cantonese ones, don't use eggs (or very little of them), and almost like Japanese udon (just a bit thinner).

This just goes to show that the noodle terminologies are as confusing as the bean sauce's. Different regions (in the USA), or even just different restaurants use the terms differently. Most of the time I need to ask the waiters/waitresses to clarify before I order.

[AzianBrewer]

The Shanghainese Leung Mein Wong noodle are little thicker than the Cantonese Chow Mein. 

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This is the first time I heard of "Shanghai Leung Mein Wong". Hong Kongers refer to them as "Shanghai noodles" (Shang Hai Mein). They are thicker than Cantonese ones, don't use eggs (or very little of them), and almost like Japanese udon (just a bit thinner).

This just goes to show that the noodle terminologies are as confusing as the bean sauce's. Different regions (in the USA), or even just different restaurants use the terms differently. Most of the time I need to ask the waiters/waitresses to clarify before I order.

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The type that I am refering to are not the white udon style noodle. It actually has eggs in it. Quitet similar to the Taiwanese "oil noodles".

[jo-mel]

Leung/liang? We are talking 'two' 两 here?

Does it matter if the noodles are thick like Shanghai (yum!) or regular Cantonese, or the Kong Kong 'ready to use' type? They can all be made pancake style and be called Liang Mian Huang?

About Shanghai noodles -- There is a noodle dish I like that requires no pre-cooking. The raw noodles are lightly colored in a little oil before stock/broth is added. After cooking for 5 minutes the sauce and rest of the cooked meat/veg mix is added. Easy without having to have an extra pot.

[Jason Perlow]

This is a dish I've wanted to make for a while. Tonight, it became a reality:

Instead of chicken, this one has shrimp (which I marinated and velveted the same way using Ah Leung's recipe) and char siu. For veggies, I used shanghai bokchoy, fresh shitakke mushrooms, mungbean sprouts, and some scallion.

[hzrt8w]

Instead of chicken, this one has shrimp (which I marinated and velveted the same way using Ah Leung's recipe) and char siu.

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Beautiful, Jason! Thanks for the taking the time to post the pic.

In Cantonese cooking, different meats (or seafood) are marinated differently.

For beef/pork: typically use oil (cooking oil or sesame oil), light/dark soy sauce, ground white pepper, ShaoHsing wine, corn starch. May be oyster sauce.

For chicken: depends if the recipe is "light" or "dark". If light, only use ground white pepper, corn starch, egg white (may be), ShaoHsing wine (may be). If dark, marinate the same way as beef/pork.

For shrimp/scallop: seafood is delicate, don't need much for marination. Use salt, oil, corn starch, egg white (may be). That's it.

BBQ pork typically doesn't get marinated again for stir-fried dishes or fried rice/noodle/rice-noodle because it's fully flavored and cooked.

[Rachel Perlow]

We didn't marinate the char siu, in fact it was tossed in at the end, just before turning off the heat and adding the bean sprouts, scallions, cilantro. Just to heat through.

Next time we're going to use a flat pan to cook the noodles, it was difficult to get them evenly browned in the wok and flat at the same time. Do you drain your noodles? I just see it moving directly to your pie pan serving plate. We made two noodle pancakes, and layered them on paper towels, set in the toaster oven set low, to keep warm until the saute was done.

[Dejah]

Next time we're going to use a flat pan to cook the noodles, it was difficult to get them evenly browned in the wok and flat at the same time. Do you drain your noodles? I just see it moving directly to your pie pan serving plate. We made two noodle pancakes, and layered them on paper towels, set in the toaster oven set low, to keep warm until the saute was done.

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I know what you mean about getting an even browning on the noodles in a wok. That's why my large crepe pan will work better.

Not sure about the kind of noodles Ah Leung uses, but I use cheapies - .88/400g pkg. These I have to cook until al dente, drain, then cooled in the fridge, preferrably overnight. If I don't drain or chill them well, they never crisp up!

The ones Ah Leung used may be steamed noodles in the refridgerated section of the grocery? Even these, I find I have to dunk them quickly in boiling water, drain then pan-fry.

Your noodles really look light and crispy.

[hzrt8w]

Next time we're going to use a flat pan to cook the noodles, it was difficult to get them evenly browned in the wok and flat at the same time. Do you drain your noodles? I just see it moving directly to your pie pan serving plate. [...]

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I used the soft egg noodles ("Hong Kong style" from the website jo-mel linked to). I do not parboil these noodles. I simply take them out of the plastic package, loosen them up on a plate, then lay flat directly on the frying pan. In the restaurant they can use a lot of oil to deep-fry the noodles. But at home I don't deep-fry. I use a pan to fry the noodles. Might need to use the spatula to press down on the noodle while frying to help them get crispy.

[whisks]

i cooked our egg noodles this way and served them quite plain - with garlic chives (gau choy). plain as they may sound, they were very popular with the family for chinese new year. so i thank you for going to the trouble of posting these pictorials, without them i wouldn't have been able to cook noodles, no matter how simple.

[Ben Hong]

I also use soft HK egg noodles, but I dunk them in boiling water first ( hu in Cantonese or "float"). There is no advantage to my method, although sometimes I get a better mouthfeel...more contrast between the crispy outside and the very soft inside of the noodle "pancake".

[jo-mel]

Rachel / Jason ------Your dish really really REALLY looks good! I can almost taste it just by looking at it. ------and the aroma!!

I use a flat pan to make a noodle pancake too. If the pan is big enough then I can form the pancake into a round or into an oblong shape ---- depending on what kind of serving platter it will go on.

[sheetz]

To make noodles nice and crisp I brown them in a cast iron skillet and then place the skillet in a warm oven while I make the topping.

[msphoebe]

I just wanted to take a minute to thank you, very much, hzrt8w, for all your work in posting these pictorials. They are better than any of the Chinese cookbooks I have purchased. And, these pictorials have educated me in the different menu items I see on a Chinese menu, thus encouraging me to order items I've never had before in a Chinese restaurant.

About a month ago, I tried the fried noodles (combo, with shrimp, beef, chicken, and vegetables) for the first time and found them most delicious. I've now had them three times in the past month!

I've enquired about the availability of tomato beef at my favorite Chinese restaurant, "Fortune Wok" in Overland Park, Kansas, and was told they would be happy to cook that for me as long as they have tomatoes -- and I was invited to call ahead and let them know I'd be in.

The point of my post is to let you know that your efforts are very much appreciated and my mouth waters every time I check this forum.

One request. I know it must be simple, but could you post a pictoral for "dry fried green beans"? One of my favorite side dishes, but not sure of the technique or ingredients. Thanks in advance.

Edited March 9, 2006 by msphoebe (log)

[hzrt8w]

[...]I've enquired about the availability of tomato beef at my favorite Chinese restaurant, "Fortune Wok" in Overland Park, Kansas, and was told they would be happy to cook that for me as long as they have tomatoes -- and I was invited to call ahead and let them know I'd be in. 

[...]One request.  I know it must be simple, but could you post a pictoral for "dry fried green beans"?  One of my favorite side dishes, but not sure of the technique or ingredients.  Thanks in advance.

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Thank you for your kind words, msphoebe. Tomatoes are quite commonly stocked in Chinese restaurants, or at least I thought so. I am surprised that they might "run out" of tomatoes. Are they not readily available across the US?

"Dry fried green beans"? Are you thinking of the green beans that are stir-fried with chili slices, garlic and bits of Sichuan preserved vegetable (Zha Choy [Cantonese])?

[msphoebe]

Tomatoes are just awful this time of year, as you know. Apparently they don't buy them, or at least not a lot of them, until summer when there are good fresh ones. Are there many other Chinese dishes made with tomatoes? I never knew!

As for the green beans, maybe I have the name wrong. These are the semi-crisp stir-fried green beans that may have soy sauce (or oyster sauce?) and perhaps some sesame oil? But no other vegetable is visible. They are sure good!

[jo-mel]

"Dry fried green beans"?  Are you thinking of the green beans that are stir-fried with chili slices, garlic and bits of Sichuan preserved vegetable (Zha Choy [Cantonese])?

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I agree -- it sounds like gan bian si ji dou 干煸四季豆.

[msphoebe]

"Dry fried green beans"?  Are you thinking of the green beans that are stir-fried with chili slices, garlic and bits of Sichuan preserved vegetable (Zha Choy [Cantonese])?

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I agree -- it sounds like gan bian si ji dou 干煸四季豆.

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After doing a little more searching, I think you both are right. Although I don't recall seeing chili peppers or preserved vegetable, perhaps they were omitted from the dish I had. I think they could be even better that way than without. Here is a recipe that seems pretty close to the dish I've had: http://chinesefood.about.com/od/vegetables.../greenbean.html