Olive Oil from Provence

GordonCooks · October 20, 2005

Michelin starred Chef, Jean Andre Charial.....

I'm told be more informed sources that adding olive oil that comes from outside of France is typical. Since olive production is so tentuous, the growers usually use anywhere from 20% to 50% purchased oils in their blends.

Edited October 20, 2005 by GordonCooks (log)

Ptipois · October 21, 2005

Michelin starred Chef, Jean Andre Charial.....
I'm told be more informed sources that adding olive oil that comes from outside of France is typical. Since olive production is so tentuous, the growers usually use anywhere from 20% to 50% purchased oils in their blends.
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Typical ? More informed sources ? Could you be more specific please?

OK, Charial did a very jerky thing (I doubt he's more than an exception), but please don't present French olive oil as "typically" altered. This is unfair and inexact.

I can vouch for many of our grands crus — oils from Nyons, Manosque, Nice, Languedoc, etc. I know most French olive oil producers to stick to the quantities corresponding to their small-scale olive production and that's all. And Southern chefs who do promote some special olive oils are not all gangsters, and support outstanding produce.

In France the legislation on the composition of olive oils is extremely strict, defined by exact denominations. Perhaps you're likely to be gypped by a grand chef who surfs on the wave of Provençal hype, and you won't read the label. But you're much less likely to be gypped at any Carrefour or Leclerc where the label will tell you all.

By the way this practice ("coupage") is particularly common in Italy, at any rate more than in France, but that doesn't get the news.

menton1 · October 21, 2005

Yes, I agree, Ptipois... I have read in several sources that Olive Oil "from Italy" can be actually up to 100% from Spain! Apparently Italian law allows the bottler to say "Italy" on the label as long as the product is packaged there. At a lecture a couple of years ago, I met the Spanish Ambassador to the UN and the subject came up and he wanted to make everyone aware that much of the seemingly Italian olive oil is actually from Spain! (He was proud that it was) His only gripe is that this fact is hidden from the public.

I call this practice deceptive and subterfuge...

GordonCooks · October 21, 2005

Michelin starred Chef, Jean Andre Charial.....
I'm told be more informed sources that adding olive oil that comes from outside of France is typical. Since olive production is so tentuous, the growers usually use anywhere from 20% to 50% purchased oils in their blends.
←
Typical ? More informed sources ? Could you be more specific please?
OK, Charial did a very jerky thing (I doubt he's more than an exception), but please don't present French olive oil as "typically" altered. This is unfair and inexact.
I can vouch for many of our grands crus — oils from Nyons, Manosque, Nice, Languedoc, etc. I know most French olive oil producers to stick to the quantities corresponding to their small-scale olive production and that's all. And Southern chefs who do promote some special olive oils are not all gangsters, and support outstanding produce.
In France the legislation on the composition of olive oils is extremely strict, defined by exact denominations. Perhaps you're likely to be gypped by a grand chef who surfs on the wave of Provençal hype, and you won't read the label. But you're much less likely to be gypped at any Carrefour or Leclerc where the label will tell you all.
By the way this practice ("coupage") is particularly common in Italy, at any rate more than in France, but that doesn't get the news.
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So my statement is absolutley false then?

ludja · October 21, 2005

Just responding to the article, pretty egregious, this:

Even worse, a sample examined by government inspectors revealed that the bottles sold contained an unspecified quantity of lamp oil, which is unfit for human consumption.

The bold text is added by me.

This goes well beyond blending lower quality olive oils from unattributed regions together. I certainly hope this isn't mimicked by others producers in France or other olive oil producing countries. It makes you wonder though, did Charial just come up with this idea himself, or is the idea 'out there', so to speak?

Not to be naive, but I also find it somewhat surprising that someone would be fined only 15,000 Euros for adulterating distributed, retail food with something deemed, "unfit for human consumption".

I'm curious how they discovered this was gong on. I wonder if samples of olive oil from different producers are tested by agencies? Would the testing only occur in the 'home' country?

As a separate point, does anyone know how this story is being covered in France? Is it being treated as a relatively big deal?

Edited October 21, 2005 by ludja (log)

Ptipois · October 21, 2005

So my statement is absolutley false then?
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Well, what do you think?

I believe I made myself quite clear in my previous post. And that menton1 added some crucial information.

Besides, I asked you if you could please be more specific and you're replying beside the point. Again, what are your "informed sources"? And why should they say such a thing?

Here in France we have AOCs and careful checking of commercial olive oils, as well as a very strict classification that, as a rule, no one kids with. French-produced olive oil is not taken lightly here, the production is too scarce and precious. I don't believe there are enough dishonest producers to establish a rule, and certainly one two-star chef in overhyped Provence taking advantage of the situation is not enough to give French olive oil a bad name. The way that you jump from this particular case to state that everybody does the same thing is, to say the least, abusive. Olive oil is a beloved, sacred food in Southern France, and the natural attitude of its producers is utter respect.

Of course I am referring to the grands crus of French olive oil. But the situation is not different for the cheaper commercial brands like Puget, which are of very good quality, sometimes assembled from several sources, but then they don't claim to be grands crus and include no lamp oil or other rubbish, or the producers would be in dire trouble.

The champions of olive oil prestidigitation are the Italians, not the French. What do your informed sources say about this?

Ptipois · October 22, 2005

This goes well beyond blending lower quality olive oils from unattributed regions together. I certainly hope this isn't mimicked by others producers in France or other olive oil producing countries. It makes you wonder though, did Charial just come up with this idea himself, or is the idea 'out there', so to speak?

See, one simple way to turn a phrase, and here is the doubt already. The damage is on its way. I'm not saying that Charial is the only chef in this situation but I'd be very surprised to discover that many other of his peers do the same thing.

Not to be naive, but I also find it somewhat surprising that someone would be fined only 15,000 Euros for adulterating distributed, retail food with something deemed, "unfit for human consumption".

"Huile d'olive lampante" (translated as lamp oil) is not exactly only fit for lamps. It is a low-grade olive oil containing more than 3,3% acidity. It is edible when refined but considered unfit for consumption it its raw state. Now what exactly means "unfit for human consumption" in the French legislation remains to be examined; as a rule the threshold is kept very high owing to the "precaution principle", so it is possible that Charial wasn't found likely to poison anybody. Another reason for the relatively low fine may be that the chef was not found as guilty as the Yahoo News article presents it to be, which becomes clear when you read the French coverage of the facts.

As a separate point, does anyone know how this story is being covered in France? Is it being treated as a relatively big deal?
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At least it is presented with a little more detail. For instance here. It appears that Charial claims to have been abused by the Société de la Vallée des Baux (SVB), a company commercializing the very prized and expensive oils from Les Baux-de-Provence and distributing the Baumanière brand. The court decided that he stood responsible for the purity and origin of the oil, and found him guilty not to have done that. However, the chef appeals on the grounds that he was never allowed by the SVB to evaluate the olive oil properly and therefore claims that he was abused by the SVB.

I have to say that, amongst the French olive oils I am familiar with, the huile d'olive de la vallée des Baux is the one I have sometimes been suspicious of. SVB was the first French company to commercialize designer bottles for huge prices, Italian-style. And at times I have found the quality and taste to be underwhelming. I also heard some rumors that may well echo the situation GordonCooks evokes, but I only heard them about la Vallée des Baux, never about another origin. Maybe Charial was only the victim of a situation that had become customary with SVB. It is not clear whether he was aware of any alteration before the oils were tested. At any rate I'd have been much more careful if I had been him, and in the very best of cases he appears as more than a little silly.

Rebel Rose · October 22, 2005

"Huile d'olive lampante" (translated as lamp oil) is not exactly only fit for lamps. It is a low-grade olive oil containing more than 3,3% acidity. It is edible when refined but considered unfit for consumption it its raw state. Now what exactly means "unfit for human consumption" in the French legislation remains to be examined; as a rule the threshold is kept very high owing to the "precaution principle", so it is possible that Charial wasn't found likely to poison anybody.

I agree that one must be careful not to jump to conclusions when translations are involved. I use my regular cooking-grade olive oil in olive oil lamps in our sunporch. No smoke, no odor, and safe if tipped over.

ludja · October 22, 2005

Thank you for the additional information, Ptpois, as requested.

Thanks also for the clarification on what 'lamp oil' may mean in France. I'm pretty sure what is sold in the US as lamp oil is not olive oil so I was pretty shocked. If this is true, it surely is a good example of being careful of translated news from other countries. Of course, we rely on translations and editorial spin all the time, in both directions.

In addition, do I understand correctly that this olive oil was in very small distribution? That is, it almost sounded like from something I read that Charial's olive oil was basically only a special blend sold at his restaurant and hotel. It didn't sound like it was widely distributed. Still wrong, but not a scam being committed by a major olive oil producer. Although it sounds like there is some dispute regarding who was responsible, as you pointed out.

Thanks also for describing above earlier that there is indeed an AOC system for the higher quality French olive oils there. It seems if one was aware of that and cautious, one might not buy an expensive olive oil without it having the AOC imprimateur, as apparently this olive did not.

Lastly, I'm curious how this scam was discovered (whoever's fault it was). Is there any hint of how this information came out initially?

Ptipois · October 22, 2005

In addition, do I understand correctly that this olive oil was in very small distribution? That is, it almost sounded like from something I read that Charial's olive oil was basically only a special blend sold at his restaurant and hotel. It didn't sound like it was widely distributed. Still wrong, but not a scam being committed by a major olive oil producer. Although it sounds like there is some dispute regarding who was responsible, as you pointed out.

Yes, that is the case: a single example of scam on a very limited scale. And obviously making use of the chic reputation of Les Baux olive oil and, above all, of the Oustau de Baumanière, a place where rich clients from all over the world are likely to buy a bottle with only the caution of the 2-star restaurant, not the consumer vigilance that is now a characteristic of olive oil commercialization in France. Today, the French olive oil buyer is very taste-conscious and origin-conscious. A quick look at the olive oil department in any supermarket would tell you, as well as the existence of chains specialized in high-quality olive oils like Oliviers & Co.

There is no reason to incriminate French olive oil production from this isolated case.

Thanks also for describing above earlier that there is indeed an AOC system for the higher quality French olive oils there. It seems if one was aware of that and cautious, one might not buy an expensive olive oil without it having the AOC imprimateur, as apparently this olive did not.

There is not only an AOC system but all commercialized olive oils are subjected to strict control, sometimes after the retail stage if necessary (as the Charial story shows). There is an imprimatur for every price range, and it seems that this olive oil escaped the test for some reason.

Lastly, I'm curious how this scam was discovered (whoever's fault it was). Is there any hint of how this information came out initially?
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Controls are regularly led in retail shops, and that's how the Fraud Repression service, visiting a shop in Les Baux in 2000, and probably taking samples of everything that was sold there, discovered that the composition of the Baumanière oil was not what it should have been. So there was a trial, which got its conclusion recently.

These controls are frequent (olive oil producers have a reputation to maintain), and olive oil frauds don't often make it to the news here. The fact that this one did is rather to the credit of the French production.

menton1 · October 22, 2005

An interesting article from Wine Spectator:

http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Archives...75,2985,00.html

This seems to confirm the conversation I had with the Spanish Ambassador; I just wonder where the outrage is about this situation. The olives are grown and pressed in Spain, shipped to Italy in big barrels, and put in bottles there and marked "made in Italy".

Perhaps this calls for its own thread...

N.B. If the above link asks for a subscription, go to this link:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wine+...oil+italy+spain

Then go down to the first link and click on that, you should not be asked to login.

Edited October 22, 2005 by menton1 (log)

GordonCooks · October 22, 2005

So my statement is absolutley false then?
←
Well, what do you think?
I believe I made myself quite clear in my previous post. And that menton1 added some crucial information.
Besides, I asked you if you could please be more specific and you're replying beside the point. Again, what are your "informed sources"? And why should they say such a thing?
Here in France we have AOCs and careful checking of commercial olive oils, as well as a very strict classification that, as a rule, no one kids with. French-produced olive oil is not taken lightly here, the production is too scarce and precious. I don't believe there are enough dishonest producers to establish a rule, and certainly one two-star chef in overhyped Provence taking advantage of the situation is not enough to give French olive oil a bad name. The way that you jump from this particular case to state that everybody does the same thing is, to say the least, abusive. Olive oil is a beloved, sacred food in Southern France, and the natural attitude of its producers is utter respect.
Of course I am referring to the grands crus of French olive oil. But the situation is not different for the cheaper commercial brands like Puget, which are of very good quality, sometimes assembled from several sources, but then they don't claim to be grands crus and include no lamp oil or other rubbish, or the producers would be in dire trouble.
The champions of olive oil prestidigitation are the Italians, not the French. What do your informed sources say about this?
←

Well....my statement of French producers typically adding oils to their blends was more an indication of the olive oil market and less condemning of what Jean Andre Charial did. Who days the added oils are bad? Is French olive oil so much better than Spanish or Italian oils? The freeze of 1956 decimated olive oil production killing just about the entire olive tree population. Approx 70-80,000 trees exist today compared to over 300,000 before 1956. Due to increase in demand vis-à-vis changes in cuisine and nutritional information – the supply just isn’t there. I enjoy French Oils as much as the next guy – but don’t be naïve. Just because it’s blended doesn’t make it worse – the exception was taken by the fact that such a low grade oil was being sold for such a high price. You basically state any premium oil that is French labeled is 100% French product – wrong, you assume that I’m condemning the French olive oil industry, wrong again. I’m condemning the actions of a dishonest man. They way you detest any scrutiny and defer blame with "Well, everybody is doing it" makes me rethink just how wide spread is this type of thing?

Empirical data can be found on the IOOCs website

Ptipois · October 22, 2005

An interesting article from Wine Spectator:
http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Archives...75,2985,00.html
This seems to confirm the conversation I had with the Spanish Ambassador; I just wonder where the outrage is about this situation. The olives are grown and pressed in Spain, shipped to Italy in big barrels, and put in bottles there and marked "made in Italy".
←

Recently on french TV there was a report about olive oil, showing the cargos of cheap olive oil from Spain in Italian harbors (I even heard of "huile lampante") ready to feed the oil bottling companies. This may last a while longer before the European Union sets the situation right. Even when I did not know about this, I always wondered at the blandness of most medium-priced Italian olive oils, compared to oils from other origins that were most of the time cheaper. As for the most expensive Italian olive oils, marketing has made all of them to taste "too green", with an acrid, raw flavor obtained by pressing immature fruit. Besides I always found them much too expensive for their quality. However, the "green" taste is the most successful and sought-after nowadays. But I much prefer olive oils with "black" taste (from ripe slightly fermented fruit, as in Portuguese and Moroccan olive oils) or "mature" taste, as in the Eastern Mediterranean olive oils. My favorite olive oils these days are French, Moroccan, Greek, Portuguese, and Turkish. The oil I use the most frequently comes in plastic bottles, costs 6 euros per liter and comes from Southern Morocco. It is wonderful. Halal butchers carry it. No need to spend more. For special occasions I use château de Montfrin, which is wonderful too.

Edited October 22, 2005 by Ptipois (log)

menton1 · October 22, 2005

Well, the Wine Spectator article indicated that Spanish Olive Oil is quite good. Does the American public actually feel that Oilive Oil from Italy is superior to that from Spain? Is that the thinking behind the subterfuge? (Lying!)

What's taking the EU so long to correct this situation? And if they do, would that slow the bulk olive oil flow from Spain to Italy?

Ptipois · October 22, 2005

Well....my statement of French producers typically adding oils to their blends was more an indication of the olive oil market and less condemning of what Jean Andre Charial did. Who days the added oils are bad? Is French olive oil so much better than Spanish or Italian oils? The freeze of 1956 decimated olive oil production killing just about the entire olive tree population. Approx 70-80,000 trees exist today compared to over 300,000 before 1956. Due to increase in demand vis-à-vis changes in cuisine and nutritional information – the supply just isn’t there. I enjoy French Oils as much as the next guy – but don’t be naïve. Just because it’s blended doesn’t make it worse – the exception was taken by the fact that such a low grade oil was being sold for such a high price. You basically state any premium oil that is French labeled is 100% French product – wrong, you assume that I’m condemning the French olive oil industry, wrong again. I’m condemning the actions of a dishonest man. They way you detest any scrutiny and defer blame with "Well, everybody is doing it" makes me rethink just how wide spread is this type of thing?
Empirical data can be found on the IOOCs website
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Please do not shift from your original statement, please don't twist my own (I never wrote "everybody is doing it", actually you're the one writing that) and answer my initial question.

Spanish olive oil can be good. But that is beside the point. The point is purity of origin in a context of AOC (appellation d'origine contrôlée). And, outside of the AOC regulations, how exactly domestic olive oils are classified, denominated, tested and commercialized in France, a subject about which you don't seem to know much about.

I am aware that my tone is somewhat offensive and I'm sorry for this, but I do feel offended on the behalf of many French producers and their families whose honesty and dedication to quality is plainly attacked through your insinuations.

Saying that the way I (according to you) "detest any scrutiny and defer blame" makes you "rethink just how widespread is this type of thing" is quite a harsh way of implying that I might be trying to cover any dishonest practices of French oil producers. I think you have some nerve and it is my turn then to wonder why it seems so important to you to spread the rumor that French olive oil producers do massive blending as a rule. And, may I add, I have not seen any scrutiny in your post, only innuendo and imprecise accusation.

You did write :

"I'm told be more informed sources that adding olive oil that comes from outside of France is typical. Since olive production is so tentuous, the growers usually use anywhere from 20% to 50% purchased oils in their blends."

So, what are your "more informed sources"?

You haven't answered this question at all, and you even keep on stating that French olive oil is massively blended with oils from other origins as if this were a solid fact. But unless your "more informed sources" prove to be serious and tried, I will consider this nefarious BS, because indeed there is no solid fact of this sort. I have studied the subject of European olive oils pretty closely. Time sure has passed since 1956 and though limited, French olive oil production is doing allright, and please note that it is no mass production and is not designed to be. Premium olive oils in France are not blended, or they would never get, or keep, the AOC, which, in order to be kept year after year, requires regular testing to be done. I am not saying that a few examples of fraud cannot exist, as was the case with the SVB and Baumanière, but that is what they would be — fraud. By no means a common practice.

Edited October 22, 2005 by Ptipois (log)

GordonCooks · October 24, 2005

Well....my statement of French producers typically adding oils to their blends was more an indication of the olive oil market and less condemning of what Jean Andre Charial did. Who days the added oils are bad? Is French olive oil so much better than Spanish or Italian oils? The freeze of 1956 decimated olive oil production killing just about the entire olive tree population. Approx 70-80,000 trees exist today compared to over 300,000 before 1956. Due to increase in demand vis-à-vis changes in cuisine and nutritional information – the supply just isn’t there. I enjoy French Oils as much as the next guy – but don’t be naïve. Just because it’s blended doesn’t make it worse – the exception was taken by the fact that such a low grade oil was being sold for such a high price. You basically state any premium oil that is French labeled is 100% French product – wrong, you assume that I’m condemning the French olive oil industry, wrong again. I’m condemning the actions of a dishonest man. They way you detest any scrutiny and defer blame with "Well, everybody is doing it" makes me rethink just how wide spread is this type of thing?
Empirical data can be found on the IOOCs website
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Please do not shift from your original statement, please don't twist my own (I never wrote "everybody is doing it", actually you're the one writing that) and answer my initial question.
Spanish olive oil can be good. But that is beside the point. The point is purity of origin in a context of AOC (appellation d'origine contrôlée). And, outside of the AOC regulations, how exactly domestic olive oils are classified, denominated, tested and commercialized in France, a subject about which you don't seem to know much about.
I am aware that my tone is somewhat offensive and I'm sorry for this, but I do feel offended on the behalf of many French producers and their families whose honesty and dedication to quality is plainly attacked through your insinuations.
Saying that the way I (according to you) "detest any scrutiny and defer blame" makes you "rethink just how widespread is this type of thing" is quite a harsh way of implying that I might be trying to cover any dishonest practices of French oil producers. I think you have some nerve and it is my turn then to wonder why it seems so important to you to spread the rumor that French olive oil producers do massive blending as a rule. And, may I add, I have not seen any scrutiny in your post, only innuendo and imprecise accusation.
You did write :
"I'm told be more informed sources that adding olive oil that comes from outside of France is typical. Since olive production is so tentuous, the growers usually use anywhere from 20% to 50% purchased oils in their blends."
So, what are your "more informed sources"?
You haven't answered this question at all, and you even keep on stating that French olive oil is massively blended with oils from other origins as if this were a solid fact. But unless your "more informed sources" prove to be serious and tried, I will consider this nefarious BS, because indeed there is no solid fact of this sort. I have studied the subject of European olive oils pretty closely. Time sure has passed since 1956 and though limited, French olive oil production is doing allright, and please note that it is no mass production and is not designed to be. Premium olive oils in France are not blended, or they would never get, or keep, the AOC, which, in order to be kept year after year, requires regular testing to be done. I am not saying that a few examples of fraud cannot exist, as was the case with the SVB and Baumanière, but that is what they would be — fraud. By no means a common practice.
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Give me a list of the top ten blended oils currently on the french market or a resource I can find that info

Ptipois · October 24, 2005

Give me a list of the top ten blended oils currently on the french market or a resource I can find that info
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I beg your pardon?

GordonCooks · October 24, 2005

Give me a list of the top ten blended oils currently on the french market or a resource I can find that info
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I beg your pardon?
←

Please tell me what the current top selling brands of blended French olive oils currently being sold in France. I'd be interested to see if all these brands are using 100% french product.

menton1 · October 24, 2005

Please tell me what the current top selling brands of blended French olive oils currently being sold in France. I'd be interested to see if all these brands are using 100% french product.
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If an oil sold in France is marked "AOC", it is not only all French but entirely from the specific region that is marked on the bottle. These oils are not top sellers because they are made in small quantities, mostly available at the producers and the artisanal shops. Here is one source:

http://www.nice-art.com/huile/champsoleil.htm

The French supermarkets mostly sell blended oils from Italy and Spain-- the French producers are, for the most part, much smaller. The French climate is such that only a small portion of France is conducive to growing Olive trees. Italy and Spain have much warmer climates overall.

Busboy · October 24, 2005

Having bought excellent olive oil in France for much less than the 35 euros/liter being charged at the restaurant gift shop, I have little sympathy for buyers who seem to have more money than sense (or taste).

Buying oil from any source that provides oil of unknown provenance with a vanity label -- surely no one thought the restauranteur was pressing his own fruit -- is an inherently risky operation. Perhaps I have good luck, but whenever I find myself in the mood for a liter or two of provencal sunshine, I seem to stumble across a seller who offers a taste up front. I do not claim a taster's palate, but even I can taste the difference between generic extra-virgin and the hand-crafted stuff, and I fly home with something that puts me in a good mood every time I taste it, for as long as it lasts.

It's regrettable that one chef may have -- knowingly or not -- flim-flammed his customers; interesting to think that the chef may have been selling something that he'd never bothered to taste himself. On the other hand, with so much good oil around, anyone buying the bottles from the front of the restaurant, sans goutant, whouldn't have expected anything more than an amusing souvenir of a fine meal. A liquid gimme cap, if you will.

GordonCooks · October 24, 2005

Please tell me what the current top selling brands of blended French olive oils currently being sold in France. I'd be interested to see if all these brands are using 100% french product.
←
If an oil sold in France is marked "AOC", it is not only all French but entirely from the specific region that is marked on the bottle. These oils are not top sellers because they are made in small quantities, mostly available at the producers and the artisanal shops. Here is one source:
http://www.nice-art.com/huile/champsoleil.htm
The French supermarkets mostly sell blended oils from Italy and Spain-- the French producers are, for the most part, much smaller. The French climate is such that only a small portion of France is conducive to growing Olive trees. Italy and Spain have much warmer climates overall.
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I understand the rules regarding the AOC designations are I am very familiar with the rules restricting wine production.

The point I've been trying to make is:

There is nothing wrong with blending oils from whatever provenance if the end product is good.

Being accused of using foreign made oils in french blends is not duplicitious.

The Chef was NOT manufacturing his own olive oil but lending his name to a product.

The Chef was using a lower grade product not subject to such stingent rules and regulations.

Selling an inferior grade of olive oil as a premium french (italian,spanish) product is bad

that's all

BUT I'm still interested in finding out the current best selling french olive oils

menton1 · October 24, 2005

BUT I'm still interested in finding out the current best selling french olive oils

I think that will prove daunting because, as I mentioned, 100% French Olive oils are not mass-marketed; they are generally produced on an artisanal basis and only distributed locally.

One of the producers that I am familiar with is Alziari in Nice. I have been to his shop, and the oil is available at some specialty grocers in NYC, such as Zabar's. But I have no idea if this is a "best-seller". (It is a lovely Olive oil, though).

Web Site: http://www.alziari.com.fr/eng/mill.htm

GordonCooks · October 24, 2005

BUT I'm still interested in finding out the current best selling french olive oils
I think that will prove daunting because, as I mentioned, 100% French Olive oils are not mass-marketed; they are generally produced on an artisanal basis and only distributed locally.
One of the producers that I am familiar with is Alziari in Nice. I have been to his shop, and the oil is available at some specialty grocers in NYC, such as Zabar's. But I have no idea if this is a "best-seller". (It is a lovely Olive oil, though).
Web Site: http://www.alziari.com.fr/eng/mill.htm
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I have an Aliziari tin in cupboard currently next to bottles of Lungarotti, Pope Creek Ranch, and Maussane-Les Apilles. I'm taking exception to the statement that 100% of Olive Oils sold in France use 100% French product -

If I'm full or BS? prove it :hmmm:

Ptipois · October 24, 2005

Please tell me what the current top selling brands of blended French olive oils currently being sold in France. I'd be interested to see if all these brands are using 100% french product.
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Excuse me, but first of all you're replying to a question of mine with another question, and still haven't answered my question regarding your "informed sources". I am not going to follow you on this track.

Secondly, in your first post, you were clearly not referring to French bottling companies selling blended olive oils but to "growers". That is quite a different matter, and quite a shift from your initial statement. Here is your post again:

I'm told be more informed sources that adding olive oil that comes from outside of France is typical. Since olive production is so tentuous, the growers usually use anywhere from 20% to 50% purchased oils in their blends.

You were plainly stating that French "growers", without further precision, were typically adding a large proportion of purchased foreign olive oil to their production. Unless you are really bad at expressing yourself, this meant artisanal growers and not bottling companies, which of course use olive oils from other countries (which are still subjected to drastic control according to the classification of EVOOs and VOOs in France and should NOT contain refined or lamp olive oils). For instance, Puget is a famous bottling company, selling high-quality blended oils for a reasonable price. Now Puget does blend, you don't need to fetch the proof for me. But Puget is not a grower!

So if you referred to bottling companies (which you didn't mention at all in your first post), your "more informed sources" are only stating the obvious, and in that case I wonder why you found that worth mentioning. But if you did refer to "growers", and you did, you're referring to the artisanal AOC and AOP producers whose oils are 100% from their own trees and that is grossly inexact, to the point of insulting a trade that is truly dedicated to producing a genuinely local, regularly controlled, high-quality produce.

The problem with the Baumanière oil was not precisely that it was blended — cheaper, brand name oils are blended, under strict supervision regarding the quality and purity. It was that, given the origin it claimed to have (the vallée des Baux), and its price, it was not supposed to be blended, and much less to contain "huiles lampantes" in their unrefined state. The oil was not what it claimed to be, a premium grade olive oil, hence the fraud. That fraud was committed either by Charial and the SVB, or (more likely) by the SVB without Charial being allowed (or trying very hard) to take a closer look at its composition and origin. He sure should have taken a closer look. But the Société de la Vallée des Baux, which is supposed to promote the pure oils produced in the Les Baux region and nothing else, seems to be more of a culprit.

Ptipois · October 24, 2005

I have an Aliziari tin in cupboard currently next to bottles of Lungarotti, Pope Creek Ranch, and Maussane-Les Apilles. I'm taking exception to the statement that 100% of Olive Oils sold in France use 100% French product -
If I'm full or BS? prove it
←

I'm afraid you are. You are trying to mess up words. "Olive oils sold in France" is not the same thing as "olive oils produced in France". You did begin by mentioning "growers". Enough said.

Not full of BS? Well I think you're the one who has to prove it in this case. If you can prove to me that olive oils produced in France by local growers are not 100% produced in France, this is the time to do it, for that is exactly what you said. That would be an interesting revelation and I am sure the DGCCRF (Direction générale de la concurrence, de la consommation et de la répression des fraudes) would find it very useful.

If your sources are so well informed, you'll have no difficulty bringing the proof here.

Or maybe — get out of the mess by admitting your first statement was poorly stated?

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