Help! eGulleter Lost in Foreign Land wShort Notice

[mudbug]

Ok, it's my first trip to Europe. I'm meeting up with others and at any given time there will be three to five of us, one is vegetarian but don't let that stop you from speaking up. With less than a couple of weeks I have limited time to do research so I'm hoping some suggestions will be kindly offered here. I'd feel much more comfortable with some recommendations from those who frequent this forum. I usually hang out in the China and Chinese Cuisine forum I'll need all the help I can get.

We're all on budgets but an enjoyable sit down dinner wouldn't be a bad thing.

I'm listing what I was given of the itinerary at this time so if anyone is familiar with the locations, hopefully it will call to mind some places to eat within the vicinity. Please feel free to volunteer addresses, specifics, and dishes we should not leave without experiencing! If you know of something in one location, I tried to make it easy so that all you have to do is say something like:

8) Try xxx for lunch, here's where they're located, prices are xxx this range and they make a great xxx.

Also: I'd welcome any Farmer's Markets or Foodie Groceries and Specialty stores, pastry shops, kitchen tool places, evening/night life, etc. If something listed sounds like a place not worth our time, by all means let me know. Most of us are interested in the fine arts and anything visually stunning so any particular suggestions on that front would be appreciated as well.

London special request:

Sunday 11/20 - 11/21

I'll be here by myself and it may be the only chance I get to see London in my lifetime. Flight leaves at 1:45 the next day. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good dinner, what I can do on a Sunday evening, and a safe place to stay?

Feel free to post up to the date, there is a chance I may be able to check the thread while I'm there.

Thanks in advance!

1)

Friday 10/28/05

between flight arrival and Eurail train (4-6 pm)

Anything nearby or in the airport?

2)

Saturday 10/29/05

(breakfast? & lunch?) Lugano & Lake Como

(dinner?) Zurich: Martahaus or City Backpacker

3)

Sunday 10/30/05

(breakfast?) Zurich: walking tour from train station to St. Peter's

(lunch?) Rathausbrucke, Niederdorf, Schmiedezunft, Jewish Qtr, Grossmunster, Fraumster: dinner?

(dinner?) Niederdorfstrasse

4)

Monday 10/31/05

(breakfast?) Zurich: walking tour from train station to St. Peter's

(lunch?) Bern walking tour

(dinner?) Lausanne

5)

Tuesday 11/01/05

(breakfast?) Lausanne then to Montreaux: Chateau de Chilon

(lunch? 30 min available) then to Laus

(dinner?) Laus? or visit Geneva?

6) Wednesday 11/02/05

(breakfast?)

[ lunch ] Budapest: Lunch at Museum Kavehaz

(dinner?) Budapest near Great Synagogue

7)

Thursday 11/03/05

(breakfast?) Budapest near Vorosmarty Ter.

(lunch?) Liszt Square

(dinner?) near Opera House and shops

8)

Friday 11/04/05 - Budapest

(breakfast?) near Batthyany Ter.

(lunch?) between Batthyany Ter. & Elizebeth Bridge

(dinner?) after Gallert Baths

9)

Saturday 11/05/05

(breakfast?) last breakfast in Budapest

(lunch?) Vienna near Eurail station

(dinner?) after Schonbrunn Palace, before Spittelberggasse

10)

Sunday 11/06/05

(breakfast?) near Wombat or Hostel Vienna

(lunch?) Vienna - Rick Steve's Walking Tour

(dinner?) before Konzert

11) Monday 11/07/05

(breakfast?) before Apply Art Museum

(lunch?) between museum and train station

(dinner?) Prague near Wenceslaus Square

12)

Tuesday 11/08/05 - Prague

(breakfast?) before Hardcany Castle

(lunch?) between castle and Little Quarter

(dinner?) after Dancing House

13)

Wednesday 11/09/05 - Prague

(breakfast?) before Jewish Quarter

(lunch?) before Old Town Square

(dinner?) after Astronomical Clock

14)

Thursday 11/10/05

(breakfast?) last breakfast in Prague

(lunch?) Brno

(dinner?) Brno between Spielberg Castle and train station

15)

Friday 11/11/05 - Prague

(breakfast?)

(lunch?)

(dinner?)

16)

Saturday 11/12/05- Prague

(breakfast?)

(lunch?)

(dinner?)

17)

Sunday 11/13/05- Prague

(breakfast?)

(lunch?)

(dinner?)

18)

Monday 11/14/05- Prague/Krakow

(breakfast?)

(lunch?)

(dinner?)

19)

Tuesday 11/15/05 - Krakow (Salt Mines at some point in Krakow)

(breakfast?)

(lunch?)

(dinner?)

20)

Wednesday 11/16/05 - Krakow

(breakfast?)

(lunch?)

(dinner?)

21)

Thursday 11/17/05 - Krakow

(breakfast?)

(lunch?)

(dinner?)

22)

Friday 11/18/05

(breakfast?) Krakow

(lunch?) Krakow

(dinner?) Athens

23)

Saturday 11/19/05 - Athens/Crete?

(breakfast?)

(lunch?)

(dinner?)

24)

Sunday 11/20/05

(breakfast?) last breakfast in Athens

(lunch?) last lunch in Athens

(dinner?) London, I'll be here by myself and it may be the only chance I get to see London in my lifetime. Flight leaves at 1:45 the next day. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good dinner, what I can see at night, and a safe place to stay?

25) Monday 11/21/05

(breakfast?) London: last meal in Europe before 1:45 pm

Edited October 19, 2005 by mudbug (log)

[Matthew Grant]

Wow!

How did you come up with that schedule, if you don't mind me saying it does seem a little rushed in places, to the point that heading for a certain destianation to eat might not be possible. Where are you starting from? A few comments:

Why so long in Zurich but so little time in London

Travelling to Lausanne for dinner on a Sunday (10/30/05)from Zurich and then getting back to Zurich again is probably a non-starter. I should warn you that a lot of Zurich shuts down on a Sunday, don't expect to look in too many shops!

Why are you travelling form Switzerland to Hungary and then back to Austria? you have to pass through Austria to reach Hungary! It would also seem to me that your trip from Krakow to Athens seems a little long winded and it will be unrealistic to expect to get to Crete and back to Athens in 24 hours unless you are flying.

Anyway, my recommendation to you (aside from thoroughly re-checking your itinary) would be to grab Bratwurst in Zurich at Vorderer Sternen, not far from Niederdorf and Bellevue. It is open Sunday mornings.

[mudbug]

Hi Matthew,

Good eye. My mistake on 10/30/05, it has been corrected.

Thank you... I did not come up with the itinerary so I can't answer you on the Switzerland/Hungary/Austria question.

Edit: I'm going to guess it has something to do with the flight from Geneva to Budapest on 11/2.

So little time in London because at least one of the people in the party has already been to Europe twice and who happens to be main reason the rest of us are going. She's there to see things she hasn't seen before and she's also already been there for three weeks now. I don't know if the others have already been to London before, I'm sure some have.

I wasn't even sure I'd be able to go (my passport is literally in the mail right now - I just found out) so I pretty much stayed out of the planning.

By all means, please feel free to comment and make suggestions, nothing is set in stone and it is flexible. None of us have been there so obviously we've no idea... which places are rushed?

The Athens/Crete is somewhat of a notation as some of the party will be moving on to Crete and I'm coming home.

Edited October 19, 2005 by mudbug (log)

[Matthew Grant]

Mudbug, I'm no expert on Eastern Europe aside from a few days in Prague so am unable to offer you an alternative schedule without some serious research. How are you planning to travel between countries? Are you flying (this is the only way that I can see you being able to accomplish this schedule). Are you limiting yourself to Eastern Europe for any particular reason? On a personal level I would add a couple of days to Athens or remove it from the schedule, forget about Crete (again for time reasons). Prague is nice but you might want to remove a couple of days from your schedule to free up some time in London/Athens. It seems a little strange to me that you would prefer to spend so much time in Prague, Krakow and Budapest and so little in London?

[bleudauvergne]

...All the better to get a nice taste of Europe... First trip you just want to soak in as much as you can. Will you be traveling everywhere by train? You're welcome here in France should the mood strike you before coming home. Local tour guide in Lyon awaits you. PM me if you do decide to come through. A quick jaunt from Zurich.

[Swisskaese]

Lugano and Lake Como in 1/2 day? Are you going to have a car or are you doing everything by train?

I used to live in Lugano. If you are only travelling by train, then you need to factor in the travelling time to see if it is feasible to go to both Lugano and Como.

I used to love to go to a restaurant up in the mountains above Lugano. The restaurant is called Il Baffo (The Mustache). They specialize in Ticino cuisine. They also have an extensive wine collection and great pizza. The prices were relatively inexpensive for Switzerland.

Edited October 19, 2005 by Swisskaese (log)

[Busboy]

First thing you should know about Athens on a weekend is that lunchtime starts about 2:30 and goes for hours. Saturday is "shopping day" in Athens, and the stores close at, I belive, 2PM and everyone -- everyone -- goes to lunch after. It's a blast. If you want to be even remotely hip, don't think about dinner until 10PM Saturday (slightly earlier Sunday). I don't know when you get in from Krakow, but you'll likely be able to find something to eat if you head down to Psirri/Monisteraki/Plaka (where are you staying?). Worse case, you can go to the all-night diner in the meat market, Papandreou. The tripe soup is legendary.

Everything I know about Athens (and Crete) is on this thread..

This website is spectacularly helpful, as well, especially as regards to tracking down good taverna food. OK, more helpful than my stuff, I admit it.

Generally, if you're in the mood to blow big money on one great meal, do it elsewhere. Athens is a a great place for relaxed, inexpensive eating and cheap wine. If I were going back, I'd spend Saturday lunch at Cafe Avisinnia, which is on Avisinnia square and thus just below the Acropolis and just around the corner from Plaka and Monisteraki, so it's horribly convenient but a block or two from the main tourist surge.

Wandering drunk and aimlessly about Plaka at night is delightful, and the food's pretty interchangeable, so just look for a spot with a cool view. Cruising Monisteraki (the neighborhood just next to Plaka) for a great souvlaki is a perfectly respectable thing to do, it is ground zero for that delicacy and, if you had any doubt, they sure as hell do taste better there. Psirri is the nightlife neighborhood (also the hooker neighborhood if you get turned around -- but safe, if foreboding) and you can probably drink until the sun comes up. Actually, you can definitely drink until the sun comes up.

There are two other good, inexpensive places that I liked a lot when I visited, one right on Victoria Square -- where there's a metro stop or to which you can walk from the Plaka -- and one about two blocks off Victoria. Patcute, right on the Square, serves grilled and roasted meat and is cheap and spectacular. I seem to recall a lunch for three with a liter and a half of wine for under 25 Euros. They don't speak much English, but they are pretty friendly and you can just point to what you want in the window (the menue is in Greek and English, as well). Alexandria, on a small side street just off Alexandras (an easily found main drag) serves excellent Greek/Egyptian food.

BTW -- I find that even bad greek wine has enough personality to make it palatable, unlike too much cheap U.S. stuff, and much prefer taking my chances on $10/liter stuff from a barrel in the basement than $20 bottles from the list.

On second thought, if you want a big good-by dinner in Athens, find yourself a good fish taverna and go nuts. Or, Look up ARISTERA-DEXIA; B. Tzaferi 11 & P. Ralli, Gazi, 210 342 2606

[mudbug]

Thanks all, I'm a bit groggy at the moment, the doorbell rang and my passport arrived!

I'll try to answer some questions (if I miss one, ask again):

The plane tickets and train tickets are bought and paid for.

Will be travelling with a Swiss Saver Pass four counsecutive days, and a European East Pass (one month, 6 uses).

Yes, I would absolutely love to spend more time in Athens but flights back shot up (especially on short notice) around Thanksgiving as you can imagine. Had I known then that my passport would get here on time, I'd have been much more involved in the planning and likely stayed in Athens/Crete and London longer - but first trip and all, comfort and logic says stick with your friends and the spear header has already done London and Paris at least once, will have done Rome three times already on this trip with family and has been there previously. Believe me. I'd love to visit France and Italy. France alone for bread and pastries.

But this was a unique circumstance on many levels. As of four days ago I wasn't even sure I'd make it to Europe at all! So better some than none at all even if it's not the normal cities for a first timer. I'm just thankful its official at all! Quite frankly I've been more focused on packing light yet warm.

bleudauvergne, how I wish I could take you up on your offer. Nothing better than a local tour guide to graciously show someone around. How quick of a jaunt and by what method?

Swisskaese, Lugano arrive 7:45 10/28, Lake Como the morning of 10/29 then back to Lugano by 1:00 until train to Zurich at 5:55. Latest train leaves at 8:30 pm.

Speaking of the Eurail, If any locals know for sure reservations would be necessary in this off season for any particular train then please let me know.

Eurail (there is a chance some of these might via bus ):

Swiss Pass:

Lugano - Zurich

Zurich - Lucerne

Lucerne - Bern

Bern - Lausanne

Montreux - Laus

Laus - Geneva

European East Pass:

Budapest - Vienna

Prague - Brno

Brno - Prague

not planned yet:

maybe Cesky Krumluv? Any recommendations accessible via European East Pass from Prague or Krakow? Salt Mines are all I personally at this time around Krakow that is a must.

Why Prague and Krakow for so long? Because one of the party is stationed in Prague teaching English for a month and has friends in Krakow. Maybe I can change my flight to Athens and move it up but I'd be going it alone until they got there. Up until now, I had not considered straying from the pack. So by all means... keep up the insight and suggestions, I'm open to any and all.

Regarding Athens: I've always said that my first choice to visit anything anywhere in the world would be Greece. With everyone else having their flights booked weeks ago and not knowing anyone in Europe to go it alone, again, felt best to stick to their schedule and make the best of it. I definitely debated whether to go at all but I figure one full day is better than zero if this is my only chance in the foreseeable future. At least I can say I tried!

Busboy, good to know about Athens and thanks for the links and suggestions for Saturday. We get into Athens at 21:05 on Friday 11/18. Any suggestions for a hostel or apartment for two nights for three people? Then I leave and they stay. I wish I could stay longer but the only way to get back to London in time to make my flight around 1 pm on the 21st was to leave the day before.

Fabulous suggestions for what to do and food, the timing, and the tips, just what I need to make me feel less clueless.

To sum it up, I have only now been able to focus on anything else but getting there to meet up with my friends at all. Couldn't worry about anything else until that was a done deal. Only now have I had the opportunity to think about enjoying any of it!

I finally have a chance to consider the basic questions of how and when and where to exchange money. How to avoid diarrhea because no one will have any fun in that case. Tips on the Eurail, buses and especially cab transportation and not being taken for not knowing the language. It's always good to know the little things that people don't think are important to know but turn out to help tremendously. I know there's a ton of info online but some of it may have been posted a few years ago, etc. With so much information now, it's difficult to wade thru what you need for yourself. What to bring, what not to bring. How to pack light but still be prepared. I hate carrying stuff around anywhere much less in different countries but I know I have to have at least a change of clothes and a camera! What are temps like there around these times?

Edited October 19, 2005 by mudbug (log)

[Busboy]

Hotels in Athens are not cheap. When I was there, the client put me up, so I never did any hunting around.

A friend recommends the Frech Hotel and the Art Hotel on Marnis Street near Omonia Square (hence centrally located). These may be beyond your budget. The link I posted above does have some hotel info, as well.

[mudbug]

Thank you Busboy.

There are hostels in Athens. There will be three of us there and we can split a room or apt if that's possible and if that makes a difference for suggestions. Will be doing research but open to any insights at all!

Edited October 19, 2005 by mudbug (log)

[mudbug]

Surprised there are not more suggestions here for Eastern Europe...

[Matthew Grant]

I'm not sure if it is still there but Bugsy's was/is an excellent place for cocktails in Prague. I found most of the eating pretty disappointing in Prague, nothing really stands out in my mind

[Shiewie]

Hi mudbug

I just came back from Prague, Budapest and Vienna earlier this month. Have compiled lists of places to eat there from earlier threads here, chowhound and some other places. Will e-mail you the lists if you like (err.. they're in the office PC so can only do this on Monday).

Will also get off my butt and post reviews of the places I ate at .... soon, need to dig out my notes and sort my pics.

Eating in Prague and Budapest is generally q cheap compared to western Europe.

Edited October 21, 2005 by Shiewie (log)

[mudbug]

Matthew,

Thank you. I'll add it to the list - since I'll have time to seek it out..

Hi Shiewie! Nice to see a familiar avatar.

Yes, that would be absolutely appreciated. I'll PM you my email.

The less expensive the better but willing to pay a bit more for a good meal instead of getting sick especially with good recommendations.

[Diane Duane]

Hi Mudbug!

Ok, it's my first trip to Europe...

(snip snip snip snip)

I can help you a little with the Zurich end of things. First of all: are you flying straight into Zurich airport (ZRH)? They've completely redone the place over the past couple of years and have installed a big new food court, where the food is at least okay. Further into the airport, just before passport control, was a good Asian restaurant, but I don't know if they've moved it or how it's been lately.

(1) Believe it or not, there's some pretty fair "good plain food" in the main train station, Zurich Hauptbahnhof (or HB). "Brasserie Federal" is quite nice for a fast snack when you're heading in/out of town. (Here's their menu -- sorry, it's in German: http://www.candriancatering.ch/sites/index...1=4&rng=2&lng=)

There is also an all-right vegetarian restaurant in the station ("Bona Dea") and a little vegetarian-snack grab-it-and-run place right by the main doors on the tram-plaza side ("Tic Tac"). The high-end restaurant upstairs, "au Premier", has also recently been redone, but I haven't been in there since the redo and don't know how it is. Wouldn't send you in there without better data, as the prices in there are pretty steep. They are also steeper in "Les Arcades" than they are in "Brasserie Federal". (PS: for the beer lovers, Federal has a hundred swiss beers or more.)

A side note: there is an "ambient bar" and restaurant called "imagine" just across from Federal. They have free wi-fi. In fact, if you stand just outside their front door, you can get at the wi-fi from there. (Shhhhh....)

(2) Sunday dining in Zurich: Always problematic. If you don't mind more "good plain food" and some emphasis on regional specialties, I have a soft spot for the Zeughauskeller, right by the tram-stops at Paradeplatz. (http://www.zeughauskeller.ch/english/frame_start.htm) The food is much better than it sounds, and the atmosphere's super. ...Also near there, just around the corner (and like it, not far from St. Peterskirche) is a nice little restaurant called Heugumper (http://www.restaurantheuguemper.ch/). My husband and I were there about a year and a half ago...walked in off the street one evening and were well taken care of: good food with touches of fusion. (This link leads to a popup menu page: http://www.restaurantheuguemper.ch/popup.p...up_speisekarte) However, they may be closed on Sunday. Whereas the Zeughauskeller certainly won't be. At some time *not* a Sunday -- because they'll be closed -- you might also like to look just past the Zeughauskeller, across the little street/alley Im Gasse, at Bierhalle Kropf, which is "a beerhall" in the same way that the Sistine Chapel is "a church". Nice food there, and grandmotherly serving staff who take good care of you.

Another thought: Vegetarians and non-alike will like Hiltl Vegi. This is probably Europe's oldest vegetarian restaurant. Besides a la carte menus, there are also two big vegetarian buffets -- one Indian, one European-style. Extremely good -- and these guys have a *great* wine cellar. The place is very slick and modern, with the staff bustling around with headset mikes and being very busy. Reservations aren't absolutely necessary, but you might have to wait a little if you have a big group. Better to call ahead. (http://www.hiltl.ch/f_main_e/f-main.htm) They also run a vegetarian take-away chain called "tibits" which has locations in most of the major Swiss rail stations (the ones denoted as RailCity).

(3) In Bern -- If you're going to eat there and you're in a rush (your itinerary sounds that way, a little...) There are a number of goodish restaurants in the square directly across from the Bundeshaus, mostly on the west side. One of them does a very good wood-oven pizza: I think its name is (strangely enough) Restaurant la Pizzeria: look in through the glass front and you should be able to see the oven. Another place, right down at the Bundeshaus end, specializes in meat and grills and does a pretty good steak/frites. (Its name is something like "Grill Federal" or "Rotisserie Bundeshaus" -- please forgive the vagueness, I can't find my notes on the subject.) Also much recommended is the Italian restaurant "Verdi", at Gerechtigskeitgasse 5, near the "town" end of the bridge leading to the Baerengraben -- but you're probably going to need a booking: they're very popular. (http://www.bindella.ch/ger/page_130.html) Also terrific is the little restaurant in the Hotel Belle Epoque, right across from the Verdi. (If you go there, tell Juerg the manager that the crazy Irish writers send their best.) (http://www.belle-epoque.ch/htm_e/kontakt.htm)

...Haven't even begun to scratch the surface with this: will add some more later (I have to go out and run some errands).

Best! -- Diane

Edited October 27, 2005 by Diane Duane (log)

[bleudauvergne]

Well, dear mudbug made it to Lyon after all before she headed off to Prague! We really enjoyed having her visit! Here are some highlights of her stay.

On her arrival from Geneva on the train, it was late but she hadn't had dinner so she was subjected to one of my experiments, in the form of a mushroom tourte. It was not the best because I made the crust without eggs (I usually add an egg yolk, and since I didn't have one I put in a lump of picodin - goat cheese, which gave it a taste I wasn't thrilled with) and I was a bit embarrased but she said it tasted alright.

She had had a very busy couple of days already in Europe, so we sent her off to bed.

The next morning, bright and early, she had some tea,

and we headed to the market. She had her own camera, but also indicated to me what she wanted me to take pictures of. Here are the market photos taken under her direction.

I picked out a nice a line fished sea bass that I indicated to the poissoniere that I wanted to stuff, so he gutted it though the gills instead of the stomach to make sure we could fill it up with nice things and they wouldn't spill out.

We moved on down the line and took in the sights. It was All Saints Day, so the church bells were ringing. Many of my usual vendors were not there due to the holiday, but some were.

After a nice morning at the market, we headed back to the apartment and I put lunch together while she took a tour of the neighborhood.

Lunch was the sea bass which was stuffed with fennel root, onion, chevril, parsley, dill, and sorrel. I sauteed the onion and dill for awhile and added the herbs and seasonings at the last minute as well as a bit more butter. The fish plumped up right nicely. But there willl be pics of that later.