Which Wines go with Chinese Food?

[Tepee]

Usually with chinese banquets, you see a lot of XO's and such hard liquor. ((Wiping the visuals out of my head))

I would like to be educated in what wine goes with what chinese food, be it banquet or pedestrian fare. Bit of background...I'm practically a teetotaler, but starting on the journey of learning to drink (for health purposes, of course)....

[muichoi]

I love wine and know quite a bit about it. It doesn't really go with Chinese food....not that one can't drink it,but it does no favours to either food or wine, and spirits and beer do go better-I think the idea is really for the commrcial advantage of those selling it. Imagine drinking shaoshing wine or Moutai with steak frites-it's the same kind of inappropriate conjunction.

[Dejah]

Usually with chinese banquets, you see a lot of XO's and such hard liquor. ((Wiping the visuals out of my head))

I would like to be educated in what wine goes with what chinese food, be it banquet or pedestrian fare. Bit of background...I'm practically a teetotaler, but starting on the journey of learning to drink (for health purposes, of course)....

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Save the wine for before and after, Tepee...

I am not much of a drinker, but I love a sip of ice wine after supper...just a sip...or two at most...

[Mooshmouse]

White varietals that we've enjoyed with Chinese dinners include riesling, gewürztraminer, pinot gris/grigio. As for reds, we've had success with pinot noir, zinfandel and, depending on the dishes served, cabernet sauvignon (thought the latter does tend to be heavy-handed).

If you're just starting out on the path of wine appreciation, you'll likely have more success with (translate: enjoyment from) a white-wine pairing. Good luck Tepee!

[Ben Hong]

Forget the wine. Pu nei tea or any of the ilk goes best with Chinese food.

I am almost a teetotaler because I am cursed with the Asian alcohol syndrome, ie: missing the alcohol tolerance gene. A surprising number of us are "afflicted" thus. Couple that with the fact that alcohol is a trigger for my migraines and I would be playing my own version of Russian Roulette. I DO love the taste of wine and spirits though.

[stephenc]

Tsing-tao

Heineken

[hzrt8w]

I used to work as a waiter at a restaurant called "Ming's Garden" in La Jolla (San Diego). The owner was a Chinese who grew up in Paris. He operated this Chinese restaurant (Mandarin/Szechuan style) and offered an extensive wine list because of his knowledge about wine. His wine list featured over 100 different wines from many wineyards, both in California and Europe (France mostly, Germany and Italian too). His wine list folder is thicker than his menu.

We had some once a month "training" from the wine distributors telling us how to push different wines. We got to taste some of the samples. Imagine that: after going to school all day, working all night at the restaurant, had dinner at 11:00 pm, and had this distributor come in and "trained" us and offered samples at 11:30 pm!

Basically the simple rules are: white wine goes with white meat (poultry and fish), and red wine goes with red meat (beef). Duh!? But... back then most of us (waiters) were foreign students... what did we know about wine? It was a good education. I just wished it wasn't held at 11:30 pm to 00:30 am!

Also, spicy food (e.g. kung pao chicken), get some fruity wine (e.g. Chenin Blanc ) to balance the spiciness. But when eating fish, which is very delicate, get some extra dry wine (e.g. Chardonnay). Light red meat (e.g. beef stir-fried with vegetables), get some light red wine or rose (e.g. Pinot Nior, White Zinfandel). Heavy red meat (e.g. red cooked beef or brisket), get some heavy red wine (e.g. Burgundy, Cabernet Sauvignon).

When some customers came in, they liked to order some "Chinese" wine to go with Chinese food - which to me was not a very smart thing to do. The Chinese wine production (>20 years ago, maybe still is) was so limited. All we carried was "Wan Fu", a fruity white wine that was similar to Chenin Blanc I think. If that's what they wished, that what they would get.

We also learned that before the meal: maybe in the bar or munching on appertizers, drink cocktails, champaign or beer (we sold a lot of Martinis and Tsing Tao). During main courses, table wine. Drinking beers during meals would be considered "unsophisticated" but some customers did - as Chinese patrons often do. After meal, it's time for dessert wine (e.g. sherry) and cognac from VS, VSOP, Napoleon to XO. Yeah, drank them with a "Banana Flambe" (fried battered bananas burned in flame) dessert. Ming's Garden got a copy of the secret recipe and made hell of a Mai Tai too...

Edited October 7, 2005 by hzrt8w (log)

[Tepee]

Ay yi yi....my head is swimming a little and I haven't drank anything. But, thanks, for the feedback, everyone!

Edited October 7, 2005 by Tepee (log)

[kanljung]

The umami that may be present in chinese food (from soy sauce and/or MSG) may pose some problems for heavy reds, especially if they are rich with tannins. Reds may also be hard to match with foods that are hot from chilli. If the food normally would call for a red wine (e.g heavy red meat) I'd probably choose beer instead.

If the food contains some sweetness I would choose a wine with residual sweetness. Those kind of wines will also stand up to a certain spicyness in the food. Some white varietals that often fall into this category are riesling, pinot noir or gewurztraminer grapes.

[Fengyi]

I offer my apoloiges in advance if I upset anyone....but I really do think that quite a few wines go well with various kinds of Chinese food. Some wines go extraordinarily well, I've found.

I drink (and taste) quite a bit of wine (I am giving two wine tastings this sunday, in fact and regularly attend one or two a week) and I also eat a lot of chinese food, particularly Beijing and Sichuan cai. In the last few years, where I've really "got into" wine, it has been a pleasure and a joy to experiment with food and wine combination.

Firstly, ignore the rules...the best pairing is the one YOU like

Play around with wines, get a group of friends together to bring all sorts of wine over and try them with every sort of dish. At least bianually for the last few years, I've done this - inviting a group of friends who are into wine to bring a 'blind' bottle each (or two!). We first blind-taste the wines, then I serve a multi-course, multi-regional banquet and we try all the wines with each course. Rather good fun! And it has thrown up soem real surprising stuff - like the time we found an unoaked South Australian Cote-Rotie make-alike (i.e. Shiraz-Viognier) went really well with bang-bang chicken (made proper-Sichuan style..i.e. no bl***y peanuts!).

If you're interested in pairings, you may want to read on (warning: gets a bit wine-geeky!):

generally, we liked German Kabinett Rieslings with a lot of the Cantonese seafood dishes. The Ausleses and Spatleses went a bit better with spicier food, generally. Oaked Chardonnay is VERY difficult to match with any dish..... Alsatian Gewurtztraminer was surprisingly difficult to match as well, although Grand Cru ones are more succesful (we actually served a BC Okanagon Gewurtz at our Chinese wedding banquet which went well, but deliberately chose a more acidic, less fat one). Alsatian Pinot Gris is lovely with quite a range of dishes that are predominately lighter in feel - a nice well-made one goes with the cold PinPanr at the start. Italian whites (particularly Verdicchio) can cope with steamed fish, but generally can get overwhelmed if they are over-cropped, watery examples, like badly made soave... new Zealand Sauvignon Blancs are also surprisingly hard at times as the aromatics tend to "fight". Better paired with white-cooked dishes. Australian rieslings can be surprisingly refreshing with such things as fried yi-mian. if I think of more whites, I will post....

Reds can go splendidly, particularly Rhone reds. Somehow, their own pepper and spice notes along with the hot, but restrained fruit nature of them goes well with many stronger sichuan dishes (try it with a not-so-hot mapo doufu!) and very nicely with Dongbei stews. It is absolutely gorgeous with lamb and carrot jiaozi, and with beef. Pork and baicai jiaozi are better served with a red like pinot noir or an un-carbonically macerated Gamay (think Swiss-style). Generally, we've found claret to be unsuccessful (but white Graves and Entre deux mers can work!), both left and right bank. Burgundy is good with such dishes as mentioned above. New World Pinot Noir, particularly NZ, also is incredibly flexible and works well. I think the lower tannin, greater acidity and lower alcohol of Pinot Noir can work well, and the New World examples often have a nice burst of red-berry fruit which seems to complement the savouriness of particularly red-cooked dishes. Traditional-style Rioja is also good, though Crianza and Reserva seem to work better with a wider range of dishes than Gran Reserva. As for big New World blockbusters, the main thing to really watch for seems to be alcohol content. When it gets too high, it is terrible for any spicey dishes. Ditto with high tannic monsters...somehow the tannins really fight any spice. Silkier examples though (like Shiraz-Viognier) are good with such things as Dongpo pork - but there should be enough acidity to cut the fat. Last week, a suprrisingly good combo was a Syrah-carignan blend from the Languedoc with Hui Guo Rou!

Anyway, sorry for blathering on and on - pairing wine with Chinese food is one of my favourite recreational activities and it happens almost on a daily basis!!! Just my two cents........

[Tepee]

Do blather on...... I find this intriguing.

[muichoi]

But why would you drink wine with chinese food?

[Fengyi]

But why would you drink wine with chinese food?

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If you personally don't much like or approve of any such combination, then I can see why you wouldn't drink wine with Chinese food. Your choice is perfectly fine for your tastes, opinions and needs.

However, I myself find drinking wine with Chinese food pleasurable, inspiring, interesting, a source of great discussion and conversation, a way of combining two of my most-liked hobbies, a platform for finding out more about food and wine pairing in generally....and not to forget...delicious! Sorry, I do not mean to be confrontational about it....

Of course, each to his or her own....

[but I must say, I do admire Tepee's willingness to give it a go!]

[I_call_the_duck]

We don't usually drink wine with Chinese food, but found an amazing pairing one night. I made steamed fish with ginger and scallions--which is also topped off with julienned lemon zest. We opened up a bottle of Tocai (an Italian white that is found in the Friuli-Venezia Giulia region). Incredible. It was a flavor explosion. The wine has a little citrusy undertone, which played very nicely with the lemon zest.

Basically, what I've been told is to match some of the underlying flavors in the wine with the food (i.e. spicy reds go with spicy dishes).

[Ben Hong]

OK, all you Ladles and Germs: Let me set a mise en scene for you wine afficionados.

The typical Chinese meal (non-banquet) is communal, that is, served with all the soong or choy on the table at once, with each person taking what he wants and eating a mouthful of rice with it. (Nothing like the western style of dining , where there are definite time and place delineations for each course of the meal, eg. salad, soup, fish, meat, cheeses and desserts). On a Chinese dinner table, there may be "red" dishes, "white" dishes, "purple" dishes, "black" dishes, etc. I know wine service and am not exactly a neophyte oenophile, I can tell the difference between shiraz and shinola, burgundy from bullshit,. So, my wine snobby friends how do you "match" wines with foods at the Chinese table? Hmmm???

I can see it now...pick up a piece of white-cut chicken, eat some rice, take a sip of white wine; some lobok gnow nam, eat some rice, imbibe some red or (is it white?), ho-yau gai lan needs??, does red-cooked fish need red or white???

Now the main question of this post is: WHAT THE HECK DO YOU SERVE WITH HAUM HA OR HAUM YU??

Edited October 7, 2005 by Ben Hong (log)

[Tepee]

Now the main question of this post is: WHAT THE HECK DO YOU SERVE WITH HAUM HA OR HAUM YU??  

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Mouthwash with an alcohol content of 20%!

[Big Bunny]

Tsing-tao

Heineken

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Sierra Nevada Pale Ale

Sam Adams Cherry Wheat (really!)

BB

[Ben Hong]

Now the main question of this post is: WHAT THE HECK DO YOU SERVE WITH HAUM HA OR HAUM YU??  

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Mouthwash with an alcohol content of 20%!

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Good one, TP Girl.

Just as good as any wine, in this case.

Ah, mais oui M'sieur we have green wine. Our sommelier recommends somezing out of ze cellar..."Scope",(appellation controllee) vintage Oct.7, 2005, would be the perfect apres "Haum Ha" digestif. The wine is bold. with a definite minty finish, redolent of medicinal flavours in keeping with the yin-yang dichotomy of ze fine foods that have been prepared for you. It has a refreshing aftertaste zat keeps on giving.

Edited October 7, 2005 by Ben Hong (log)

[I_call_the_duck]

Now the main question of this post is: WHAT THE HECK DO YOU SERVE WITH HAUM HA OR HAUM YU??  

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Mouthwash with an alcohol content of 20%!

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Altoids for dessert?

[jo-mel]

I'd read (I'm ALWAYS reading things!) that if you want wine with hinese food, you can never go wrong with champagne. That kinda made sense to me as the bubbly would be a cleanser just as beer is.

When people at my dinners want wine, I usually have a cheap champagne or a German wine, but I,myself, go for the beer. Tsing Dao usually, but since I'm on South Beach at the moment, I use a non-alcoholic beer and also carry it for BYOB.

[Dejah]

But why would you drink wine with chinese food?

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Why NOT, if one likes wine?

My gut feeling is that white wine would go well with Chinese food. I, like Ben, can't drink much alcohol...no tolerance, but I do like sips of white...not too dry, with ANY cuisine, and red or white meat.

[muichoi]

But why would you drink wine with chinese food?

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Why NOT, if one likes wine?

My gut feeling is that white wine would go well with Chinese food. I, like Ben, can't drink much alcohol...no tolerance, but I do like sips of white...not too dry, with ANY cuisine, and red or white meat.

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Well yes,I'm slightly boorish on this subject, I suppose because I eat and cook most other cuisines as well and I don't like to mix and match-but there's no way a really profound wine is ever going to be equally at home with Chinese cuisine as it is with French.

[sheetz]

White varietals that we've enjoyed with Chinese dinners include riesling, gewürztraminer, pinot gris/grigio. 

These are probably the normally recommended wines to go w/ Chinese food. For me, I'll have a 7 Up/Sprite.

[Qing]

if you want wine with hinese food, you can never go wrong with champagne.

That is what my teacher taught at the Wine and Beverage class. Actually, Champagne almost could match every food.

http://chinesenewcomers.org/09_pastevents/...tems/pic_11.jpg

I think in China, to drink Liquors were made from grains are mostly common. For example, Wuliangye, Mao Tai, Jian Nan Chuan, etc. are the most popular brand. I read an article said the amount of liquors were consumed by Chinese people is equal a whole West Lake in Hangzhou every year. The interesting part is, Chinese think the alcohol percentage means the degree, so when they tell you Wuliangye is 52 degree and Mao Tai is 56 degree, you should times 2 to convert to US standard.

http://www.gleborschina.com/2005ads/wuliangye3.jpg

My teacher also suggested we try some Rosé with Chinese food, because in Chinese food usually contents from deep see fish to wild mountain pheasant. It is hard to identify a really good match for all of them. I tried the White Zinfindel form Woodbridge, it was pretty good. Personally, I like American blush wine better than Rosé de Gamay or Sydney Harbor Syrah, for they are sweeter..

[jackal10]

See http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...dpost&p=1027885

I said there

Champagne, Goes with anything

Alsace Gewurztraminer 1991 Zind Humbrecht Domaine Heimbourg

One of the best plots of the one of the best producers in a good year.

Delicious with Chinese food with its lychee notes and slight sweetness.

Rhone 1996 Cornas A Clappe.

Stand up to anything

Canada 2000 Paradise Ranch Merlot Icewine

Sweet sticky for pud