Raisins in the Sun

[Abra]

Ok, the sun was shining, but I made them in the oven. I'm hoping that those of you who have made raisins will help me out here.

I had a bunch of beautiful grapes

These grow more or less wild, and seem to be some sort of wine grape. They have a gorgeous, wild, winey flavor, sweet and tangy. Can anyone identify these grapes?

There are so many of them, and I hate to see them go to waste, so I thought I'd try making raisins. I have a small counter top convection oven that comes with dehydrating racks, but I couldn't find the instruction booklet anywhere. Even a call to the manufacturer produced no raisin advice. I decided to wing it and spread the grapes out on the racks.

Then, I had no clue what to do next. All in all, I had them "cooking" for about 17 hours. I started out at under 100 degrees. After a few hours nothing visible was happening, so I upped the temp to 150. Another couple of hours, upped it to 175. Another couple, up to 200. Ah, now they started to turn into raisins. After 17 hours they look like this

Frankly, they're some of the most delicious raisins I've ever tasted, being slightly tart and tangy, still reminiscent of wine, not too sticky sweet. So naturally I want to make more, but I'd like to avoid all the temperature shenanigans I went through yesterday. How should I really go about making more of these alluring treats?

[MarketStEl]

What I would like to know is:

How did I manage to produce some of the best raisins I've ever eaten simply by leaving a bunch of seedless black grapes in a dark spot in my kitchen for about a month?

I've actually tried to do this deliberately with grape tomatoes, with no success at all--the end result is bitter rather than intensely sweet.

[Smithy]

Abra, those are gorgeous!

You may be breaking new ground here. I can tell you that raisins in the Central Valley of California aren't subjected to 200F heat (even though sometimes it seems that hot). They are getting heat from direct sun as well as reflected from the ground, and it's probably over 100F there. Still, it takes quite a few days instead of your 17 hours. You may be able to just start them at 200F in the oven and cut down on the time, but I don't know. Are there enough grapes around that you can afford to experiment?

If you hadn't said those grapes were wild, I've had said they were Emperor grapes. We used to grow those at table grapes, and they were wonderfully sweet. I was too young to know about a winey flavor. The color and size are right. I hope someone can identify them for you.

[Abra]

Are raisins actually sun-dried in CA? Even now? I've been Googling without success. Somehow I'd imagined that I was the only one not to know how to make raisins.

These grapes weren't always wild, so they're more feral. Someone planted them, but now no one tends them. I think the tart element is too strong for a regular table grape, although I'm not positive about that. I'm going over there tomorrow to see if I can get more to experiment with.

[M.X.Hassett]

Abra your method is the one I have always used with great results. Holy s*^t Market same thing happened to me years ago, I have tried to replicate and all I get is moldy bitter goop or little rock hard pebbles. Anyone know how to non sun dry raisins.

[Abra]

MXHassett - do you mean that your method is to start at low temps and gradually increase, or to do them all the way at about 200? I'm getting more grapes this morning.

[jayt90]

What I would like to know is:

How did I manage to produce some of the best raisins I've ever eaten simply by leaving a bunch of seedless black grapes in a dark spot in my kitchen for about a month?

I've actually tried to do this deliberately with grape tomatoes, with no success at all--the end result is bitter rather than intensely sweet.

←

Tomatoes do not have enough sugar inside to dehydrate safely. The chance of mould, fungus, and bacterial attack is too great. I imagine the bitterness is the result of something using up all the sugar, and most of the moisture; there is not much left.

Sun dried tomatoes are a safe product because of the short, intense heat of the sun, more like the convection technique mentioned above.

[M.X.Hassett]

Abra I start low 100 and slowly increase to just under 200, same increments as you. Of course if the sun is shining................

Edit: Going through some old notes of mine I think I did a batch one time at 150 for 20 hours or so.

Edited September 24, 2005 by M.X.Hassett (log)

[M.X.Hassett]

Just found this http://www.wsu.edu/~gmhyde/433_web_pages/d...ing/raisins.htm "The oven should be set between 140 and 150 degrees to ensure even drying."

[M.X.Hassett]

After reading the article I guess put your pizza stone in the oven set to 140 on convection(for air circ.) and watch until done. Damn now I need to go buy grapes and start making raisins

[Smithy]

Are raisins actually sun-dried in CA?  Even now?  I've been Googling without success.  Somehow I'd imagined that I was the only one not to know how to make raisins.

←

As far as I know, that's still how they do it. I remember seeing the screens laid out between the vineyard rows in Selma only a couple of years ago. I'll check around and see what I can learn.

These grapes weren't always wild, so they're more feral.  Someone planted them, but now no one tends them.  I think the tart element is too strong for a regular table grape, although I'm not positive about that.  I'm going over there tomorrow to see if I can get more to experiment with.

←

Do they have seeds?

[Abra]

It's funny about the seeds. Up until this morning I wuld have said they were seedless, but when starting a new batch or raisins today I had a few really huge grapes, and those did have a seed or two. So the grapes are ripe and delicious when medium-sized, but get a seed when they're really big. Is that normal for some specific type of grape?

[Carolyn Tillie]

They are not wine grapes. At least not any California wine grape that I know of. Cabernet and Pinot grapes (actually, every red wine grape that I can think of) is DARK purple in color and ALL will have seeds. Also, the clusters are usually very tight. Here is a very good picture.

[Genevieve M.]

Hi all this is my first post here!! Lovely photos by the way.

Just thought I would toss into the conversation that drying grapes in small bunches can be an attractive addition to cheeseboards and they can be macerated in liquors like dessert wine, brandy and muscats by soaking dried bunches or loose grapes overnight. If they are too tart, soaking in a sugar syrup (1 part sugar to 3 parts water simmered until disolved) will sweeten them up and also preserve them. Raisin bunches soaked in sugar syrup made with 1 part of the water substituted with muscat wine is my fav combo to serve with raison desserts or with cheese mmmm. Enjoy those grapes

[Abra]

Welcome, Genevieve! That's a neat idea, drying clusters. I still have quite a few grapes, even after this current batch of raisins is done, so I might try that. It sounds really pretty, as a presentation.

It's so interesting if they aren't really wine grapes. They must be some old variety, to have that winey taste and tart-sweetness. I love them, whatever they are.

[russ parsons]

couple things:

1) yes, california raisins are still sun-dried. they are picked and placed on paper between the rows. they are turned a couple of times through a couple of days. then they usually are taken to a sorting house to be cleaned and separated from the stems, etc. fun fact: until the turn of the century when the california raisin business really got started, raisins were an exotic ingredient that had to be imported from the Mediterranean.

2) those look like flame crimsons to me. one of the shames of california grapes (of which there are many) is that there are quite fine varieties grown that seem mediocre because they are picked underripe. a thompson seedless ripened on the vine until it is bronzish-golden is a remarkable grape (though probably not as much as a muscat).

[shelora]

When I make Mexican food and need to use raisins, for a picadillo for example, I plump them up in a warm mixture of tequila, orange juice and a bit of panela (cane sugar).

I never thought about adding them to the cheeseboard. Until now. What an exquisite idea. Thanks Genevieve M.!

s

[Smithy]

couple things:

1) yes, california raisins are still sun-dried. they are picked and placed on paper between the rows. they are turned a couple of times through a couple of days. then they usually are taken to a sorting house to be cleaned and separated from the stems, etc. fun fact: until the turn of the century when the california raisin business really got started, raisins were an exotic ingredient that had to be imported from the Mediterranean.

←

That is a fun fact, and something I'd never heard before. Thanks for that!

couple things:

2) those look like flame crimsons to me. one of the shames of california grapes (of which there are many) is that there are quite fine varieties grown that seem mediocre because they are picked underripe. a thompson seedless ripened on the vine until it is bronzish-golden is a remarkable grape (though probably not as much as a muscat).

←

Boy, howdy. My grandparents in Fresno had Thompson seedless grapes in the arbor out their back yard. Those were the sweetest, most delectable grapes I'd ever eaten. At the time I could hardly be bothered with our Emperor grapes, because the Thompsons were so much better. Now I can hardly stand to buy Thompsons at the grocery store; they're so insipid and tart. Their only redeeming feature until recently was being seedless, but now the seedless reds (whatever the variety) in the store are much better tasting. Grapes are yet another crop that doesn't make it to the stores in true representative style.

[Abra]

I already have some of the great Trader Joe's raisin medley soaking in a brandy syrup, along with some prune plums, but this is giving me yummy ideas for things to do with my new raisins. On the confit thread someone mentioned soaking raisins in nocino, and since I made vin de noix this summer, and now have raisins, and am just putting up confit yesterday and today, a delicious dish is floating through my mind.

[fiftydollars]

99% of all raisins come from green Thompson seedless grapes. Their color changes as they dry.

Golden raisins also come from green Thompson's, but a preservative is added to keep the lighter color.

Yes, in California, grapes are still set out in the fields on heavy paper trays and dried by the sun.

[Abra]

That must be why most raisins are just plain sweet, with little fruit taste, just like those Thompsons. Interesting! But speaking of preservatives, my raisins are "nothing added." I wonder if they'll mold if I don't keep them in the freezer. Does anyone know?

Right now I'm doing the trick of drying them in clusters. They'll be done some time tomorrow afternoon, and I'll take a picture of how they look. I love that idea.

[Genevieve M.]

Cant wait to see the photos

[Adam Balic]

Are there "sultanas" in the USA? Thompson seedless is know as "Sultana" is Australia and most of the rest of the world (I think), although sometimes the phytohormone treated grapes (to give the large table grapes) are called Thompson seedless to distinguish them from the smaller berried sultana. Confusing what?

All dried grapes are technically "Raisins"* (hence, a "Currants" were originally "Raisins of Corinth"), but we get different dried grapes marketed under specific names, either of the grape variety or from the origin on the grapes; "Current", "Sultana", "Muscat" etc, "Raisin" is more of a generic term for any large dried grape.

They look like "Flame Tokay" grapes to me, which have been grown in the Lodi region of San Jaoquin county, California from the begining of the 20th century, mainly as a table grape, but sometimes for wine. Not to be confused with "Tokay", which is another variety.

* Originally, "Raisin" just ment "Grape" or "Bunch of grapes". Dried grapes were called "Raisins of the Sun", so you title is a nice coincidence.

Edited September 27, 2005 by Adam Balic (log)

[russ parsons]

we don't have sultanas, but probably 95% or more of the raisins sold in the us are thompson seedless, whether they're black or golden (treated with sulfur and machine-dried). at farmers markets in california, it is common to find flame grapes. it is less common to find muscat grapes, but it can be done. these have remarkable flowery flavor, but do have seeds, which most Americans find distasteful.

i don't recall seeing raisins marketed differently depending on whether the grapes were "gibbed" (treated with gibberellic acid, a naturally occurring plant growth regular--most products are approved for organic use in this country--which increases grape size).

[Pan]

So sultanas aren't simply golden raisins which aren't simply dried green grapes? What about organic golden raisins?