Certain Restaurants' Wine Lists

[LaNiña]

I was blown away by Babbo's wine list. It's on their website.

[tommy]

I was blown away by Babbo's wine list.  It's on their website.

...which can be found here...

[LaNiña]

And the nice part is you can buy the wines at their shop - the info is on the site, too.

[Wilfrid]

BYO deserves its own thread, so off I go...

[jordyn]

One more list to elicit comments on. I'm going to Charlie Trotter's in September and want to do okay on the wine front. Am thinking of doing BYO, but since we won't be making a la carte selections and I'm not particularly smart when it comes to wine, I thought maybe it would be good to have some backup choices from their wine list. Any help?

[Beachfan]

One more list to elicit comments on.  I'm going to Charlie Trotter's in September and want to do okay on the wine front.  Am thinking of doing BYO, but since we won't be making a la carte selections and I'm not particularly smart when it comes to wine, I thought maybe it would be good to have some backup choices from their wine list.  Any help?

What is your price range?

Preferences in varietal and style?

[tommy]

They usually spend the most money on food because brining your own wine usually means you are a serious eater.

huh? that's absurd. where do you come up with this sh*t?

[LaNiña]

Why is that absurd, Tommy? I think there's probably something to be said for the idea that people who are serious about wine are probably serious about the food they eat with it. So it would be okay to assume that the serious wine drinkers would spend more money to get serious food...

[tommy]

I think there's probably something to be said for the idea that people who are serious about wine are probably serious about the food they eat with it.  

then say it.

i guess you're implying that the "serious wine drinkers" will order the 18 dollar foie gras, and the not-so-serious wine drinkers will order the 13 dollar salad?

or maybe the "serious wine drinkers" will order 2 entrees? or maybe they get dessert while the not-so-serious wine drinkers skip dessert and grab a twinkie at the deli?

do the "serious wine drinkers" order the 7 course tasting while the not-so-serious wine drinkers order the 5 course tasting?

while we're generalizing, can i say that a lot of "rich people" are really cheap bastards who don't tip very well? and would you accept that as fact? and would you still love me either way?

[LaNiña]

I'm just saying that I think it's *likely* that people who are serious about wine, who went through the trouble of bringing serious wine with them, will *probably* be more serious about the food they order, which in *many* cases will mean spending more money.

And about the rich people being cheap thing, hey, there are cheap people and generous people at all levels of richness/poorness.

And yes

[tommy]

I'm just saying that I think it's *likely* that people who are serious about wine, who went through the trouble of bringing serious wine with them, will *probably* be more serious about the food they order, which in *many* cases will mean spending more money.

you still haven't explained how it is even possible. my above points remain open for you, or plotters, to address.

and please don't fall back on the ole "well, some people skip the app to save money blah blah blah blah". that type of behavior hardly accounts for even a small percentage of the people we're talking about who are dining at places where you'd bring a bottle. you'd have to sell 3 extra entrees to each person to make up for the difference btwn the 25 corkage fee and the possible 150 profit on the bottle you would have sold. those serious wine guys must order a LOT of freakin food. unless, of course, you have another explanation. still waiting. and, clearly, still charming.

ediot: for some reason i spell behavior as if i'm british and percentage as if i'm blind.

[tommy]

And about the rich people being cheap thing, hey, there are cheap people and generous people at all levels of richness/poorness.

and she proves my point unknowingly.

[jordyn]

What is your price range?

Preferences in varietal and style?

Price range is probably up to $300 a bottle, $400 for a real gem.

As far as varietal and style, we're trying to please a crowd, so my input probably isn't the overriding factor (nor am I even smart enough to get this right) but:

1) I tend not to like a lot of oak on white wines in particular. I'm less sure about reds.

2) Tannins--yuck.

3) Wines that I've had recently that I thouht were particularly good:

Quintessa Napa Valley Red ('98)

Trimbach Riesling Cuvee Frederic Emile ('89)

Pride Mountain Cabernet Franc ('99)

That's all I remember off the top of my head.

[LaNiña]

And about the rich people being cheap thing, hey, there are cheap people and generous people at all levels of richness/poorness.

and she proves my point unknowingly.

how did that prove your point? i'm just saying that it's ridiculous to generalize and say "a lot of rich people are cheap." lots of people are cheap, lots of people are generous, lots of people are whatever they are - i don't think that people with money are necessarily cheaper than people without.

[tommy]

how did that prove your point?  i'm just saying that it's ridiculous to generalize and say "a lot of rich people are cheap."  lots of people are cheap, lots of people are generous, lots of people are whatever they are - i don't think that people with money are necessarily cheaper than people without.

oy. i was being ridiculous to generalize to show how ridiculous it is to generalize.

however, please address my above points. i'm still not understanding plots or you on this one. and i'll just lose sleep if i can't see it your way.

[Beachfan]

What is your price range?

Preferences in varietal and style?

Price range is probably up to $300 a bottle, $400 for a real gem.

As far as varietal and style, we're trying to please a crowd, so my input probably isn't the overriding factor (nor am I even smart enough to get this right) but:

1) I tend not to like a lot of oak on white wines in particular. I'm less sure about reds.

2) Tannins--yuck.

3) Wines that I've had recently that I thouht were particularly good:

Quintessa Napa Valley Red ('98)

Trimbach Riesling Cuvee Frederic Emile ('89)

Pride Mountain Cabernet Franc ('99)

That's all I remember off the top of my head.

The Darioush 99 Shiraz was Best of the Night at a recent California/Australian Syrah/Shiraz tasting ($95). Very young though (as is most of the California list).

The Kunin French Camp Syrah 2000 would be a good inexpensive choice for one more bottle ($58)

The Togni 1991 ($375) should be very, very nice.

The Phelps Insignia 1998 ($195) is very enjoyable even if it isn't up to the 1995/1996/1997 vintages.

I'd probably choose the Abreu 97 ($300). I haven't tasted it, but it was given monster ratings. It might be the best deal on the list, as it's a cult wine with very high grey market value. You'll have to like your wine young (I bet it's no longer on the list).

I'd love to try anything by Sine Qua Non, but haven't had these offerings.

Some interesting Barolos in that range (the Giacosa 1997 Rocche di Falletto), but they are way too young

Some interesting old Italian wines, but I'd have to look up the years.

The Salon le Mensil Champagnes should be fabulous (85 $335, 88 $310), the Laurent-Perrier Brut Rose is nice ($100).

If you like Alsatians, there should be some nice ones there.

Anyone know anything about the Guigal Condrie La Doriane ($160)? I love Condrieu.

I didn't see anything in Bordeaux or Southern Rhone; I'll let the wiser ones suggest the Burgs.

[Wilfrid]

Tommy's right. { }

Let's say the cost of a bottle of wine, to be shared between two, is $60 ( set it low, because the higher it is, the more obvious it is that Tommy's right). For Steve's original assertion (which I suspect he didn't intend to be picked apart like this, but anyway) to be true, the BYO couple would typically have to spend more than $30 a head more than the wine list couple. That would indeed entail an extra entree, all things being equal. Tasting menus are unlikely to cost $30 more per head than a la carte, indeed they are frequently a less expensive option. The BYO couple may indeed be more serious eaters, but they are going to find it hard to reflect that consistently by spending on food.

This is what you wanted addressed, right Tommy?

[tommy]

They usually spend the most money on food because brining your own wine usually means you are a serious eater.

come on plots. i know you're around. step up to this load of horsecr*p. don't quietly back off of it as you have been accused of in the past (not by me). and just when i was starting to respect you too. oh well.

[Wilfrid]

Yeah, he's avoiding the French cuisine thread too. He's a beaten man (some chance).

[tommy]

This is what you wanted addressed, right Tommy?

i wanted steve to address it. and considering nina's feet are dangling out of his arse, i was hoping she'd have some thoughtful input as well beyond "yeah, what he said."

[cabrales]

The Salon le Mensil Champagnes should be fabulous (85 $335, 88 $310) . . .

jordyn -- My favorite champagne, although the pricing is a bit high (not necessarily for a restaurant at Trotter's level, though). Note that the producer ages before release, so that 88 is probably the second most recent release (the most recent being 90; I don't think I've seen an '89 -- there is production only in the appropriate years).

[LaNiña]

This is what you wanted addressed, right Tommy?

i wanted steve to address it. and considering nina's feet are dangling out of his arse, i was hoping she'd have some thoughtful input as well beyond "yeah, what he said."

I should be so lucky! Ha. Anyway, I'd rather hear his take on it than mine, I don't have as much to say about this, truly. And don't feel like getting into a whole friggin' megillah about it.

He's avoiding my last point in the personal taste thread, too.

[Wilfrid]

That is about the most unpleasant mental visual impression I have yet received even from this duck-penis-ridden and kitten-plagued site. Thank you.

If we synchronized our watches, we could all post at exactly the same time. I'm sure that would help clarify things.

[tommy]

If we synchronized our watches, we could all post at exactly the same time.  I'm sure that would help clarify things.

LOL!!!!!

[Wilfrid]

Ooh look, there's Plotters on the thread just below. Maybe he's coming this way.