Need Help With Short Drink Recipe

[Rob Simmon]

Lately I've been trying to design a new cocktail, and although I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track, I can't nail down the right proportions of ingredients. It started when I tried to think of something to mix with Navan (the vanilla liqueur made by the same folks who bring us Grand Marnier) after makign a brandy smash.

Attempt#1:

1.5 oz. cognac

.75 oz. Navan

and a sprig of mint, shaken.

Too sweet, too vanilla, definitely needed something sour. So off to the market for some fresh raspberries (recalling raspberry tarts garnished with a mint leaf) which I pureed and strained (I figure commercial raspberry syrup would add too much additional sweetness).

attempt #2:

1.5 oz. cognac

.5 oz. Navan

.75 oz. Raspberry Puree

generous bunch mint

Too minty, which buried the raspberry and vanilla, and still not sour enough.

attempt #3 (approximate):

1.5 oz. cognac

.5 oz. Navan

.75 oz. Raspeberry Puree

4 mint leaves

Just didn't come together somehow, primarily still lacking a sour component.

Any suggestions? I don't want to add lemon juice, since I think the lemon flavor will throw things off. I'm considering tracking down some citric or malic acid crystals, but I almost think that's cheating. Otherwsise, I'm stuck, unless I can get a batch of tart raspberries.

thanks

[BarbaraY]

How about a dash of bitters. My daughter the bartender's suggestion.

[slkinsey]

Hi Rob.

What's the thinking behind mixing cognac with vanilla flavored sweetened cognac? Seems like you'll just get slightly less sweet, slightly less vanilla flavored cognac. Navan seems like a potentially interesting product, but if I were you I'd think first about changing base liquors. Navan with applejack seems like it might be interesting. And I'd definitely try it with gin, although that might be less successful. Maybe something like a Twentieth Century Cocktail with Navan instead of crème de cacao.

[Rob Simmon]

Hi Rob.

What's the thinking behind mixing cognac with vanilla flavored sweetened cognac?  Seems like you'll just get slightly less sweet, slightly less vanilla flavored cognac.

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If you really want to know ... I had David Wondrich's <em>Killer Cocktails</em> flipped open to the brandy smash, and saw the bottle of Navan my girlfriend had brought up from the basement sitting on the counter. I asked myself if vanilla goes with mint, thought to myself "it works for Tom's of Maine" and started experimenting. The addition of raspberries came from the desire to add tartness that wasn't lemon or lime. Maybe Applejack, Navan, and manzanita would do the trick (has anybody here tried manzanita?)?

Modifying a twentieth century cocktail seems to be a pretty significant departure. Not to mention the fact that I'm fresh out of both Applejack and Lillet (I'm trying to exercise some self-restraint so I can justify buying a certain trio of very expensive cookbooks from a very famous spanish chef, and draw down my excessive liquor collection (Beachbum Berry calls for far too many varieties of rum)).

How about mixing the Navan with a highland scotch? Vanilla plus vanillin? I think I'm going to need a new liver before too long ...

[Rob Simmon]

How about a dash of bitters. My daughter the bartender's suggestion.

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It just didn't seem to be what was missing. But perhaps the licorice accents in Peychaud's would complement the vanilla.

[KatieLoeb]

Sour mix?? A tiny splash of lime juice or grapefruit juice? A bit of lemon juice in the spirit of a sidecar?? That's how I usually adjust for sourness in a cocktail. Bitters are just, well, bitter. Not that they don't have their place in cocktails, but you did say you were seeking sour/tart. How about cranberry juice or pomegranate juice?

[slkinsey]

Modifying a twentieth century cocktail seems to be a pretty significant departure. Not to mention the fact that I'm fresh out of both Applejack and Lillet.

Yea, I guess I was trying to say that Navan and cognac doesn't sound like it has too many interesting possibilities. Mixing like with like has only a limited appeal. I did a drink once where I used 50:50 vanilla infused bourbon and regular bourbon in a perfect-style Manhattan takeoff, but since then I've decided that it's a limited approach.

Sticking with the Brandy Smash idea, what about something like cuban-style white rum, Navan, mint and lemon? Or maybe grapefruit instead of lemon and a tiny bit of grenadine (if it needs a little more sweetness) or a few dashes of Peychaud's (if it needs the sweetness tamed) floated on top? Not sure how that would work with mint, though.

[Rob Simmon]

Sticking with the Brandy Smash idea, what about something like cuban-style white rum, Navan, mint and lemon?  Or maybe grapefruit instead of lemon and a tiny bit of grenadine (if it needs a little more sweetness) or a few dashes of Peychaud's (if it needs the sweetness tamed) floated on top?  Not sure how that would work with mint, though.

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After a partial re-thinking:

1.5 oz. bourbon (Buffalo Trace)

.5 oz. Navan

A small bunch of mint (hard to quantify how much, exactly)

shake hard with ice

Turns out not much different than a mint julep, but the Navan hides some of the bourbon character, making it acceptable for non-bourbon drinkers (like my test subject). Next I'll try this with the pureed raspberries.

[Rob Simmon]

ok I lied. Not having any raspberries, I went with the rum idea:

1.5 oz. white rum (Matusalem)

.5 oz. Navan

.5 oz. lemon juice

1 sprig mint

shake with ice, garnish with a twist

it comes out tasting similar to a La Floridita (with creme de cacao, not maraschino).

[mbanu]

How about a dash of bitters. My daughter the bartender's suggestion.

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It just didn't seem to be what was missing. But perhaps the licorice accents in Peychaud's would complement the vanilla.

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Brandy and Vanilla Brandy are a great combination. If licorice seems the way to go, perhaps a few dashes of Pernod?

[Rob Simmon]

Next attempt:

1.5 oz. bourbon

.5 oz. Navan

.75 oz. blackberry puree

a few small sprigs of mint

this recipe is starting to improve, but the blackberries [although more acidic than raspberries (but not remotely as acidic as lemon juice)] are still not tart enough, and the relatively potent mint (a variety called "mint julep") really took over even though it was pretty scraggly.

I was actually feeling pretty happy about my skill as a creative mixologist, but then I mixed up a <a href="http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=42813&st=0&p=614566entry614566">Tantris Sidecar</a> (mentioned by slkinsey in the <a href="http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=72982">Pegu Club</a> thread) and was profoundly humbled.

[Betts]

Have you thought about the vanilla-coffee-dark rum flavor triangle instead of the fruity one.

[slkinsey]

A good use of Navan, although a long drink rather than a short one, that I tasted just last night at Pegu Club is the Silver Lining. It's more or less a Silver Fizz made with rye instead of gin, and including a touch of vanilla liqueur (Navan, in this case).

[Alchemist]

ok I lied. Not having any raspberries, I went with the rum idea:

1.5 oz. white rum (Matusalem)

.5 oz. Navan

.5 oz. lemon juice

1 sprig mint

shake with ice, garnish with a twist

it comes out tasting similar to a La Floridita (with creme de cacao, not maraschino).

←

If you are using rum how about pinapple juice as the acid, and back down to a Wash of Navan. Rum and pine were made for each other, but a dash of bitters, or lime cant hurt. The mint used as a garnish is both visually striking, and you get that subtle mint hint that is refreshing. Also what about making a Mai Tai, but substituting the vanilla for the orgeat? To paraphrase the immortal Charles H. Baker... These are the experments that cause our insurance company to dislike us... happy experimenting