The Room

[grahamtigg]

10 years ago I would have said all that mattered was the dishes I was served. I've changed and would now put the attitude of the staff on at least a par. Note that by attitude I don't mean the experience of the staff nor the mechanics of the service.

When a restaurant is busy the decor is not a problem. If the personalities behond the establishment aren't right and it's quiet then it won't feel right whatever the state of the decor.

It's tragic that decor is seemingly so all important to Michelin in France. Since M Bras is a theme here then from having dined there most years since he moved from the town to his "space station", what seems to have clinched his third star was a new glass covered stream running through the dining room. It must have been, the food and wine hasn't changed since the mid-90s and nor, I presume, have Michelin.

[John Whiting]

Discounting, for purposes of argument, all restaurants with magnificent natural views, my wife and I are agreed that the front (bar) section of Gramercy Tavern is the most perfect space we've ever dined in. Those enormous floral/branch arrangements turn it into a magic forest. And the not-too-crowded spacing of the tables, together with the relaxed but discreetly attentive service, make the whole experience a model of perfect human interaction. (And I haven't even mentioned the food!)

[Beachfan]

I tend toward Steve P's parameters, on choice of table, although I make less expert use of their vantage point.

I didn't go back to Daniel's for 8 years because of a bad table (and worse attitude when I asked for a change).  Funny, the two times I've went in the last two years, I've gotten great tables (once after a change request).

There are a handful of very good inexpensive restaurants for which decor is no issue.

I never like facing a wall.  If it has a mirror, I mind it a little less.  

Decor enhances, but never wins.  Picasso in Las Vegas was amazing decor (surrounded by Picassos), but I found the food boring and haven't went back.

[Pan]

Decor enhances, but never wins.

That neatly sums up my attitude about decor. Well said.

[cabrales]

In one of the introductory pieces to the 2001 NYT Guide to New York City Restaurants (Grimes, Asimov, Reichl), Grimes discusses the role of space and decor:

"Probably abotut 80 percent of a rating depends on the food, but food is not everything. Service matters. So does decor. Last year, for example, I was taken with the cooking at 71 Cinton Fresh Food. . . . It was also noisy and cramped . . . . So much so that most diners would hesitate before making a return trip. I thought of 71 Clinton as three-star food in a one-star setting, and my two-star rating reflected tht reaction . . .  It did not hurt that Danube . . . was one of the lushest, most romantic interiors New York has seen. . . . But nothing can compensate for mediocre food. Warner Leroy pulled out all the stops to transfer the RussiaTea Room into a Xanadu, but the Hollywood production values could not make up for a less than entralling menu. . . . All of them could take a lesson from Wallse, or Blue Hill, little neighborhood restaurant with minimally pleasing decors and terrific kitchens." (italics added)

[LaurieA-B]

Tabla is one of the loveliest spaces I've dined in; both the Bread Bar and upstairs are pleasant, but the upstairs is more dramatic.  (And their bathroom is my favorite in any restaurant; that's a whole different thread.)

I agree with John Whiting on the perfection of the Tavern's front room.  The flowers are incredible, especially the enormous garden table next to the bathrooms.  I was thinking about rooms with no windows, and was about to type that the only such spaces are hole-in-the-wall-type restaurants.  But does the main room at the Tavern have windows?  I much prefer a bit of natural light.  I enjoyed afternoon tea at Alice's Tea Cup recently, but the room is rather claustrophobic (all the tables are in the back of a basement space).

It's true, of course, that a beautiful room can do little to redeem poor food.  Spring Street Natural Restaurant has an excellent room, windows on two sides, natural light, greenery, but the restaurant has nothing else to recommend it.

I've eaten once at Home on Cornelia, and thought the dining room seemed extremely narrow and cramped.  We had delicious brunch outdoors in the garden, under a heat lamp, and enjoyed that very much.

One favorite of mine is very tiny and cramped; you're elbow to elbow with the other diners, who are sometimes pressed into service passing your food.  But that's part of Pepe Rosso's appeal.  The more spacious Pepe Giallo isn't as charming.

[oraklet]

i don't often eat out, and then mostly when in france. there they seem to concentrate on the food, more than on making you feel at home (which you aren't, anyway) by use of all kinds of effects: dim light, too little space, music (hate it) etc. actually one of the three best meals i've had was in a village at the coast of normandy. the host did seem a bit surprised that anyone had noticed his place, and showed us into a room that was brightly lit up by one powerful lightbulb hanging from the ceiling. all thirteen of us sat around one long table, the only one in the room. no music, of course. it took them one hour to prepare our meal(s), mostly seafood, but then it was very good (though of course not artistic), and it was served in a quiet and straightforward manner. it was nice to be able to see one's food as well as see and hear one's companions. that is often not the case in danish restaurants, and neither is it with my in-laws...

but of course, being thirteen around the table brought trouble later in the night when we tried to share the bill.

oh, there was this place in lyon. thought i had entered a whorehouse - but food was fine, really.

[Ruby]

i don't often eat out, and then mostly when in france. there they seem to concentrate on the food, more than on making you feel at home (which you aren't, anyway) by use of all kinds of effects: dim light, too little space, music (hate it) etc. actually one of the three best meals i've had was in a village at the coast of normandy. the host did seem a bit surprised that anyone had noticed his place, and showed us into a room that was brightly lit up by one powerful lightbulb hanging from the ceiling. all thirteen of us sat around one long table, the only one in the room. no music, of course. it took them one hour to prepare our meal(s), mostly seafood, but then it was very good (though of course not artistic), and it was served in a quiet and straightforward manner. it was nice to be able to see one's food as well as see and hear one's companions. that is often not the case in danish restaurants, and neither is it with my in-laws...

Sounds like three of the things that bother you in restaurants are the same ones that annoy me: dim light, lack of space and intrusive background music. Sometimes I don't know what restaurants are thinking.

I like round tables for large parties as it feels more intimate to me and it's easier to hear what everybody is talking about.

What have your favorite dining experiences been in the U.S.?

[oraklet]

i'm really so boring: never been outside europe

[Ruby]

i'm really so boring: never been outside europe

That doesn't make you boring!  

Oraklet, if you and your spouse ever decide to visit New York City, send me a private message and I will buy both of you you a Dr. Brown's cream soda and a nice deli sandwich from Katz's!  

[oraklet]

thanks, ruby, and vice versa

(and now i will have to find out what copenhagen has to offer in the same vein. nice place, but really on the outskirts of europe)

[stellabella]

Considering the pains to which I've gone to create my own beautiful, warm, inviting kitchen, of course I always want the same in any restaurant.  But of course "attractive dining space" is so subjective.  

I love the "dining room" in my fav Irish B&B,  Netterville Manor north of Dublin, near Slane--an old Victorian Manor Home with tall ceilings, exposed dark beams & white-washed rough plaster walls.  A pot-belly stove in one corner.  Mismatched ironstone plates & platters on the hearth.  A long rough-hewn dining table with benches for all the guests [which included only the four in our party].  Our breakfast was probably very basic--eggs & toast--but memorable because of where it was eaten.