Automatic, Unannounced Tips on Your Bill

[tommy]

Technically the "contract" being presented by the server is incorrect because the tip should be separate from the food total on the receipt.  

oh really?

welcome to egullet.  how did you hear about us?

[Courtzzz]

Hi Tommy

I have been a lurker on egullet since last year but this topic has me so insensed, I had to register and reply.

[lano]

Back to tipping--

While I believe the receipt should state that X% was added (or similarly having the waiter tell you) it is ultimately up to you to know what the heck you are paying for.  While this may not be easy to do with bills for many people, it is fairly easy to see a discrepancy for a small group-- I am always amazed when people get bills and basically just sign off on it.  What would happen if the wrong bill was deposited on your table?

Secondly, in no way whatsoever does it benefit a restaurant to conceal this tip.  If anything, it behooves the restaurant to make this info known prominently.

[Courtzzz]

I think we are all in agreement that hiding the service charge is not a policy of the  restaurant .  It is however a manipulative move on the part of the servers.  They are well aware of what they are doing.

[TheBoatMan]

The waiter picked up the check and provided my fathers charge copy.  I'm sure he saw the extra 90-dollar tip at that point.  Did he think his service deserved a 160-dollar tip?  He could have easily said something at that point.  Am I to think the waiter would have notified his management later in the evening about this?  Management said themselves it should have been circled on the bill, which it wasn’t.  

lano,

I agree with you that it is the diner’s responsibility to check the bill.  Unfortunately, my father took care of the bill and I didn’t want to cause a scene with a “check fight”.  Again, let me state my concerns:

1) Not the fact that gratuity is automatically added but in the manner the gratuity was displayed on the check almost like a menu item being ordered.

2) When the check was presented the lack of the server verbally informing my father gratuity is added for parties of 6 or more.

3) And finally with the server taking the credit card receipt and handing my father his copy.  At that point he had to have clearly seen the additional 90-dollar tip.

[tommy]

Or did they just design it that way for no reason?

i still cannot determine what you mean.  the tip area would have to be separate from the bill area by necessity, since the customer fills it in.

[Rosie]

Hi Tommy

I have been a lurker on egullet since last year but this topic has me so insensed, I had to register and reply.

Welcome Courtzzz. Sorry we had to get you angry in order to register and reply.   Tell us where you like to dine in NJ?

[dodge621]

Boat Man

I was certain from the beginning that the restaurant server's knew this

my thinking is since you have complaints we should know which restaurant you are referring to so we can All be Buyer Beware

I also think the server should have been warned or even fired for taking such a dubious action

[Courtzzz]

Tommy- That is what I mean.  There is a space for Subtotal/ Tip and Total.  The server is including the tip under subtotal indicating that it is part of the food bill, rendering the contract invalid :-)

[Wilfrid]

I am possibly confused.  The recent discussion here seems to suggest that the 20% tip was just included in the total.  But looking back at BoatMan's original post, I see it was listed on the bill "like a menu item".  I have to say, that is absolutely standard practice where service is included.  I presume it said something like "service" opposite the sum in question.  Of course it's possible to miss something like that, but at the same time it is accepted that the menu "clearly" stated that 20% service would be added for parties of six or more.  So far, I can't see any problem.

Should the tip have been left open on the credit card slip?  This isn't a design question.  It is common in the UK for restaurants to include suggested service for all customers, and also common - although not universal - that their credit card slips have no line for a tip.  In the case of the restaurant BoatMan visited, I imagine most parties are fewer than six in number.  Do we seriously expect the restaurant to have differently designed credit card slips for different tables?  Unreasonable, I think.

I think someone proposed that the restaurant should have filled in the blank tip line themselves, presumably by hand.  I don't know if that would be illegal, but I have a strong feeling it would be improper.  People should not be filling out other people's credit card slips.  So far, again, nothing to insense me.

At the same time, I agree that BoatMan's father should not have been allowed to tip almost 50% of the meal total.  The fault I find is not with the restaurant, but with the waiter, who indeed should have noticed the extra tip and checked with BoatMan's father whether this was deliberately.  Now, the waiter may have deliberately remained silent, or may not have been concentrating:  I think it's fruitless to speculate.

[Courtzzz]

Hi Rosie,

Our favorite places for dinner include the River Palm Terrace in Edgewater, Scalini Fedeli in Chatham.  Occasionally a trip to Don Pepe for Lobster...

I am from the Basking Ridge area and am always looking for something new.  Any suggestions other than the usual ones mentioned on the board?

[TheBoatMan]

If a restaurant is going to impose an automatic gratuity policy for large parties the diner is entitled to a verbal notification of the policy.  It can be done at the time of reservation, upon being seated or when the check is presented.  It would behoove the restaurant to do so, plus elimanate any of these "mistakes" that may happen.  Just my 2 cents.

[TheBoatMan]

Courtzzz

I love the River Palm Terrace, it is my favorite steakhouse.  I have been to all 3 locations (Mahwah and Fair Lawn) but prefer the Edgewater location.  It has more of a steakhouse feel there and its fun to people watch at that location   .  Though I hear the Edgewater location is expanding, I hope this doesn’t change the atmosphere I like there so much.  I have been to steakhouses all over the country i.e. Sparks, Peter Lugers, Ruth Chris, Don Shulas in FL, Mortons and others.  I think we are lucky to have a steakhouse the caliber of River Palm in the state.

[tommy]

If a restaurant is going to impose an automatic gratuity policy for large parties the diner is entitled to a verbal notification of the policy.  It can be done at the time of reservation, upon being seated or when the check is presented.  It would behoove the restaurant to do so, plus elimanate any of these "mistakes" that may happen.  Just my 2 cents.

i don't think anyone has suggested otherwise, and in fact we all agree on this point.  although "entitled" is a strong word.

[TheBoatMan]

Do we seriously expect the restaurant to have differently designed credit card slips for different tables?  Unreasonable, I think.

No, we should not expect them to have different slips.

I think someone proposed that the restaurant should have filled in the blank tip line themselves, presumably by hand.  I don't know if that would be illegal, but I have a strong feeling it would be improper.  People should not be filling out other people's credit card slips.  So far, again, nothing to insense me.

Where the tip line is, the server should have written INCLUDED .  There is nothing illegal about this.  If a diner decides to leave extra, he can do so in cash or ask for his card to be run again.  Simple as that.

Now, the waiter may have deliberately remained silent, or may not have been concentrating:  I think it's fruitless to speculate.

wilfrid are you for real?  Give me a call I have some land to sell you.  

[TheBoatMan]

Boat Man

I was certain from the beginning that the restaurant server's knew this

my thinking is since you have complaints we should know which restaurant you are referring to so we can All be Buyer Beware

I also think the server should have been warned or even fired for taking such a dubious action

Dodge

Thank you for the support. I'll email the restaurant name to Rosie as she suggested and she can decide what to do.

[Wilfrid]

1.  Tommy took the words right out of my mouth.  If the menu clearly states the service charge policy, I think they have fulfilled their obligation to you.  You might like to be told the same thing in several different ways, but I don't see where the "entitlement" comes in.

2.  Am I "for real"?  Do you mean, am I sincere?  Yes.  There are two possibilities.  First, the server was ripping you off; second, the server made a mistake.  If you think the latter is impossible, you are simply wrong.  If you know the former is the truth, I congratulate you on your telepathic skills.

3.  Since you quite properly followed up with the restaurant, they have been apprised of the server's actions.  I don't know what else you can do except apprise them again.

Now, let's talk about that land deal.  

[TheBoatMan]

I will respectfully agree to disagree with some of these opinions, as I do not want to drag this discussion out.  I do feel bad though, as I am sure many people are probably duped by this scam.  Maybe I do not have enough confidence in people or maybe it comes from my days of waiting tables through college but I can only think this happens elsewhere.  Beware and check that bill.  Anyway, thanks to everyone for your opinions.

Now, wilfrid about that land.....

[tommy]

I do feel bad though, as I am sure many people are probably duped by this scam.  

this "scam" is being perpetrated at just about every restaurant on the globe every single day.  it's probably more of a conspiracy at this point, wouldn't you say?

[Rosie]

Hi Rosie,

Our favorite places for dinner include the River Palm Terrace in Edgewater, Scalini Fedeli in Chatham.  Occasionally a trip to Don Pepe for Lobster...

I am from the Basking Ridge area and am always looking for something new.  Any suggestions other than the usual ones mentioned on the board?

There is a new restaurant called Jacqui's Cafe in Lyons Mall. Haven't been. If you go be sure to give us a report.

In the Ironbound I like Sangria on Magazine St. and Casa Vasca. Of course, Scalini is always wonderful.

We have been going to Epernay in Montclair alot and have always had wonderful meals. Go during the week. BYO.

[food4thought]

I personally feel that if the tip is added to the bill no matter what then we lose the ability to tip for the level of service!

T.I.P is a acronym "To Insure proper service"... How can you insure proper service if the tip is included? I believe they can include the tip if you have a large group but not for samll parties!  

[tommy]

I personally feel that if the tip is added to the bill no matter what then we lose the ability to tip for the level of service!

T.I.P is a acronym "To Insure proper service"... How can you insure proper service if the tip is included? I believe they can include the tip if you have a large group but not for samll parties!  

indeed.  but it is in place to "protect" the staff.  i don't know that it is easy to explain why large groups tend to undertip in relation to the amount of work it takes to serve the table, but it seems to be a phenomenon that is widely accepted as existing.

[dodge621]

WHy do restaurants not just pay the servers more so we would not have this whole tipping debate.  Sure our prices would be higher as consumers.

I typically give 15% if good service - 20% for extraordinary problem.

But restaurants always have the problem of "shirking" by clients

A client from out of town, not on an expense account, even if they receive extraordinary service, is less likely to tip appropriately since this client will leave and likely not be back in the forseeable future.

food for thought

[TCD]

My father commented to me on how the restaurant was a bit pricier than he expected.  . . .  I checked the bill and 20% had been automatically added to the bill.  This charge was not written by hand but appeared by print out like a menu item ordered.  When speaking with my wife she told me that it clearly states on the menu that 20% is added for parties of 6 or more.  

Ok.  It's stated on the menu that a service charge would be included.  The check indicated that it was, in fact, included.  Your father thought the check was high (assuming that it did not include service).  Sounds like your dad had adequate warning of, and even reason to confirm whether, the service had been added.

[TCD]

All I'm saying is I think that if a restaurant is going to add gratuity they shouldn’t try to hide it on a bill like its a menu item being ordered.  They should also verbally alert you when handing you the check.  Is this really too much to ask?

You mean the service charge was included on the bill with all the other menu items ordered together with the prices reflected for such items on the menu.  "Excuse me, sir, just in case you can't read or have never dined out with a large party before, as stated on the menu, we have added 18%."